Close Menu
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Shop
    • Jerseys
    • Training
    • Men
    • Women
    • Kids
    • Headwear
    • Gifts & Accessories
      • Babywear
      • Balls
      • Collectibles & Memorabilia
      • Home & Office
      • Keyrings
      • Pet Accessories
      • Scarves
      • Souvenirs
      • Toys & Games
    • Super Rugby
    • Clearance
  • Wallabies
  • Super Rugby
    • ACT Brumbies
    • Blues
    • Chiefs
    • Crusaders
    • Fijian Drua
    • Highlanders
    • Hurricanes
    • Moana Pasifika
    • NSW Waratahs
    • Queensland Reds
    • Western Force
  • Six Nations
  • Women’s
  • Sevens
  • Podcast

Subscribe to Updates

Get the latest creative news from FooBar about art, design and business.

What's Hot

Tuesday’s Rugby News

May 13, 2025

Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #69: great rugby, big injuries, spectacular results.

May 12, 2025

Friday’s Rugby News.

May 9, 2025
Facebook Instagram YouTube X (Twitter)
Latest News
  • Tuesday’s Rugby News
  • Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #69: great rugby, big injuries, spectacular results.
  • Friday’s Rugby News.
  • Lions Squad Named Tonight.
  • Thursday’s Rugby News – the final countdown
  • Yowie on the Loose: almost too much rugby news
  • Dementia and CTE: differences, similarities and impact
  • Tuesday’s Rugby News
  • Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #68: that was certainly unpredictable.
  • Friday’s Rugby News.
  • Thursday’s Rugby News – adults running the show
  • 2025 Super Rugby Rd 12 — G&GR’s teams podcast
  • The Dropped Kick-Off 153 – Schmeal – Les Kiss from a Rose
  • Hump Day News – in from the side
  • New Wallabies coach finally confirmed!
  • Tuesday’s Rugby News – 29 April 2025
  • Your G&GR Wallabies Squad.
  • Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #67: another cracking round of Super Rugby Pacific – ANZAC Day style.
  • Friday’s Rugby News.
  • 2025 Super Rugby Rd 11 — G&GR’s teams podcast
Green & Gold Rugby
0 Shopping Cart
Facebook Instagram YouTube X (Twitter)
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Shop
    • Jerseys
    • Training
    • Men
    • Women
    • Kids
    • Headwear
    • Gifts & Accessories
      • Babywear
      • Balls
      • Collectibles & Memorabilia
      • Home & Office
      • Keyrings
      • Pet Accessories
      • Scarves
      • Souvenirs
      • Toys & Games
    • Super Rugby
    • Clearance
  • Wallabies

    Tuesday’s Rugby News

    February 25, 2025

    G&GR readers hate Australians?

    February 23, 2025

    Schmidt extends Wallabies tenure through TRC as search for head coach successor begins

    February 6, 2025

    Tickets on sale for blockbuster Wallaroos and Wallabies home Tests

    February 5, 2025

    Tuesday’s Rugby News, 4 February 2025

    February 4, 2025
  • Super Rugby
    1. ACT Brumbies
    2. Blues
    3. Chiefs
    4. Crusaders
    5. Fijian Drua
    6. Highlanders
    7. Hurricanes
    8. Moana Pasifika
    9. NSW Waratahs
    10. Queensland Reds
    11. Western Force
    12. View All

    Brumbies lob first grenade.

    March 19, 2025

    Hoodoo Gurus: Brumbies beat Blues.

    March 8, 2025

    Super Rugby Women’s Team List: Trial Match v Queensland Reds

    February 5, 2025

    Brumbies and Raiders combine for ANZAC weekend fixtures

    February 4, 2025

    Sotutu Returns to Boost Blues for Highlanders Clash

    February 19, 2025

    MG Motor Joins Blues as Official Vehicle Partner

    February 13, 2025

    Tu’ungafasi Celebrates 150th Cap as Blues Unleash Star-Studded Line-Up at Eden Park Opener

    February 12, 2025

    Blues Team Up with Gerard Roofs for a Strong 2025 Season Partnership

    February 11, 2025

    Chiefs Prepare for Crusaders Clash: Brown’s Debut and Tupaea’s Milestone

    February 19, 2025

    Chiefs’ All Blacks Set for Pre-Season Action Against Moana Pasifika

    February 6, 2025

    Chiefs Unveil New Talent Ahead of Taranaki Pre-Season Clash

    January 30, 2025

    Chiefs’ Rising Star Wallace Sititi Sidelined After Knee Surgery

    January 25, 2025

    Crusaders Ready to Kick Off Pre-Season with Blues Battle in Kirwee

    January 30, 2025

    Crusaders Partner with Moa Brewing Company to Elevate Fan Experience

    January 23, 2025

    Jamie Hannah Commits to Crusaders Until 2028

    January 23, 2025

    Crusaders 2025 Tickets Now Available!

    January 23, 2025

    Fijian Drua to Host Rugby FCLA in Historic Fiji Showdown

    January 20, 2025

    Highlanders Set for Home Opener Against Blues

    February 19, 2025

    Waratahs edge Highlanders in thrilling season opener

    February 16, 2025

    Highlanders Announce Squad for Season Opener Against Waratahs

    February 12, 2025

    Highlanders Gear Up for Waitangi Day Showdown Against Crusaders

    February 4, 2025

    Xavier Numia Commits to Hurricanes Through 2027

    January 29, 2025

    Hurricanes Brew Up Partnership with Flight Coffee for 2025 Season

    January 28, 2025

    Hurricanes Poua Swap Rugby Boots for Riding Boots at Hutt Valley RDA

    January 16, 2025

    Match Review: Qld Reds v Moana Pacifika — Rd2 2025

    February 21, 2025

    Ardie Savea Named Moana Pasifika Captain for 2025 Super Rugby Season

    February 3, 2025

    Ardie Savea Named Moana Pasifika Captain for 2025 Super Rugby Season

    February 2, 2025

    Moana Pasifika Set to Face Highlanders in Pre-Season Opener

    January 29, 2025

    More Tahs misery.

    March 29, 2025

    Tahs best Brumbies.

    March 22, 2025

    Isaac Kailea re-signs with RA.

    March 21, 2025

    U18s & U20s Tahs sides named.

    March 14, 2025

    Reds top of the pops.

    March 29, 2025

    Reds break drought.

    March 22, 2025

    Tom ‘The Laser’ Lynagh: Its the vibe.

    March 22, 2025

    Caslick to start in Reds #100th.

    March 19, 2025

    Force out-Brumby the Brumbies 45-42.

    February 22, 2025

    Jeremy Williams Re-Signs with Western Force for Two More Years

    February 6, 2025

    Club captain Jeremy Williams re-commits to Western Force with new deal

    February 6, 2025

    Western Force Unveils Star-Studded Squad for Brumbies Pre-Season Clash

    February 5, 2025

    Reds top of the pops.

    March 29, 2025

    More Tahs misery.

    March 29, 2025

    Super Rugby Round #7: Bye-bye-bye

    March 24, 2025

    Live: SRP ladder

    March 22, 2025
  • Six Nations

    Six Nations round 4

    March 8, 2025

    Tree Irish legends call time

    February 28, 2025

    Frogs flog Italy.

    February 24, 2025

    Welsh rugby: heartbeat found!

    February 23, 2025

    Poms pinch it.

    February 23, 2025
  • Women’s

    More in store for Qld women’s comp.

    March 21, 2025

    Happy’s Thursday’s Rugby News

    November 28, 2024

    Happy’s Thursday’s Rugby News – progress mixed in with some injustice

    November 21, 2024

    Yowie on the Loose: How long until test rugby restarts?

    October 15, 2024

    Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #50: limited rugby, but plenty of news

    October 14, 2024
  • Sevens

    G&GR team’s podcast, Ireland and done

    December 2, 2024

    Happy’s Thursday’s Rugby News

    November 28, 2024

    Happy’s Thursday’s Rugby News – US edition marketing the game, Perry Baker, Super Rugby my new dawn.

    October 17, 2024

    Sevens Olympic Heaven!

    July 18, 2024

    Thursday’s Rugby News

    July 4, 2024
  • Podcast

    The Dropped Kick-Off 153 – Schmeal – Les Kiss from a Rose

    April 30, 2025

    The Dropped Kick-Off 151 – did we mention we like the Tahs?

    April 18, 2025

    The Dropped Kick-Off 150 – Angry Italian Hand Gestures 🤌 🤌

    April 10, 2025

    The Dropped Kick-Off 149 – RIP Val Kilmer

    April 4, 2025

    The Dropped Kick-Off 148 – Sprained Ankles and Tah Road Rage

    March 27, 2025
Green & Gold Rugby
Home»Analysis»Chewsday Chew (2023 Ep4)
Analysis

Chewsday Chew (2023 Ep4)

NuttaBy NuttaFebruary 27, 2023No Comments
Facebook Twitter Pinterest LinkedIn Tumblr WhatsApp VKontakte Email
I'm available
Share
Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Pinterest Email

Hello cobbers,

Being a bit of a history nut as I am, I was reliving old glories and watching the documentary “Rise & Rise of Australian Rugby – The Grand Slam” again the other day. For those who haven’t watched it, I highly recommend it for a number of reasons, but particularly just to build a picture of where we came from leading into the heady days of the 1990s and 2000 (and so perhaps how to get back there).

Anyway, for reasons I can’t quite explain, I was listening to Alan Jones’ comments a bit more than I usually do. And, in the midst of his various ramblings, Jonesy made a very interesting point about how a coach will establish their core coaching philosophy. His idea was that a coach has to make the fundamental choice as to a ‘guiding presumption’ in terms of how they frame their tenure to either pick the best cattle available and then select a game plan to match that herd, or to pick a game plan and then select cattle to deliver that game plan.

To be clear, I don’t entirely agree it is such a singular choice of one or the other. I see that choosing cattle or choosing game plan are two ends of a spectrum. And coaches will have to find the place they rest at in between. And they will move a little, relative to the players available and the opponents as they present themselves. However, fundamentally, I do take his point that a coach will swing one way or the other as their preferred or presumptive position.

Now Jones chose to select a game plan first and foremost, or a core game plan with a small number of closely related variations based on clear ideas on the sort of game you want to play married to close analysis of opponents to identify avenues of opportunity. Apparently, this is what drove him to reinvigorate Steve Cutler (previously marked “do not pick”) and chase after Topo Rodríguez, as Jones was quite clear that he wanted an attacking lineout and an attacking scrum (who will ever forget that pushover against the Welsh).

Alternatively, it can be argued Bob Dwyer, as the other great Aussie coach of that era, generally seemed to posit himself at the other end of the spectrum in that he tended to pick simply the best players available as he saw them, often with the opponents in mind (often over positional specialists: note including Codey over Miller at the RWC, the shifting of Lynagh from 12 to 10 to bring in Lloyd Walker and then Horan and of course the Ella situation) and then built a game around their strengths. This is aligned to his often quoted ideas on “a good big fella will beat a good little fella” and his core concept of simply making sure you have 5 world class players in the team somewhere. Dwyer picked cattle first.

So here we have two competing coaching philosophies: game plan v cattle plan. Or “Jonesism” v “Dwyerism”.

At this point it is probably sensible to call out again that neither approach is ‘pure’. I’m not arguing absolutes and there are clearly instances where each philosophy (and indeed each coach) borrowed elements from the other approach. However, I don’t think anyone can rationally argue against the point that each guy generally came from opposite ends of the cattle v game plan spectrum as the starting point of their philosophy.

Applying this prism to modern Australian coaches, Dingo Deans was clearly a guy who selected players first and foremost and then fitted them into a team. Look no further then in how he tried to fit the ‘3 Amigos’ into his teams. It could even be validly argued he did this with no overly clear game plan (“play what’s in front of you”). His philosophy was demonstrably more Dwyerism than Jonesism.

Interestingly, Link McKenzie appeared to try to do both and have a foot in both camps. I felt this was part of his undoing (along with a whole bunch of other stuff I won’t go into now). Especially at the Reds, Link clearly had different game plans for different opponents (a sign of Jonesism) and he would tinker accordingly. But that tinkering was to change the game plan based on the same cattle (arguably Dwyerism). Alternatively, in his too-brief stint with the Wobblies, he was looking to pick the best generalist cattle available and then fit them into a team with one core game plan with minor deviations (again, Dwyerism). I see this as just another reason why I’m so sorry he didn’t choose to last longer and go further as the Wobbly coach.

Following Link’s resignation after that notable All Black test, we had Michael Cheika step into the breach from 2014 to 2019. And Cheks was undeniably and unapologetically in the Jones camp when it came to assessing him through this prism. With a game plan demonstrated via the Waratahs as devoted to a 1-3-3-1 forward deployment and hinging on having a Ulrich ‘Mad Jac’ Potgieter at 6, we thus witnessed the demise of players such as Scott ‘Bugger Off’ Fardy and the attempted transmutation of Ned Hanigan into an underaged crowbar as samples of evidence of how he favoured Jonesism. Likewise there was also the insistence in playing Hooper at 7 to suit the 1-3-3-1 plan, even if it meant shoving the world’s best ‘fetcher’ and turnover maestro (Pocock) to 8.

Then we had Dave Rennie from post 2019 World Cup until this year. Again, Dave Rennie was a game plan coach (Jonesism). There is some validity in the argument that the sheer amount of alternative bodies Rennie used, and his willingness to break down the strictures of the Giteau eligibility rules to access more players, could be argued as the actions of someone more interested in cattle to be accessed rather than a slavish devotion to a game plan. However to that argument I would say it was precisely the inability of players to execute his game plan, by either trying and losing (or trying and getting injured), that reinforces my assertion that Dave ‘Kumbaya’ Rennie was a game plan devotee, just that he couldn’t find or keep the players he wanted.

Now we have Eddie Jones 2.0. The last time EJ was the main man we saw an evolutionary shift in Australian rugby coaching with a whole new level of apparatus being applied around analysis, S&C, and sub-coaches. He’s the guy largely labelled as shifting Australian rugby to a highly structured game plan, referred to in some corners as ‘chess rugby’, as tactics were not designed to ‘break a line’ per se, but rather to move players about so as to create mismatches to be exploited by consequence of a tactical play 2 or 3 phases previously. Some may say we haven’t recovered from that overt formulising of play and deliberately ‘drilling out the smarts’ from our play. Certainly our set-piece took near 10yrs to recover from his devotion to ball-playing front rowers over meat & potato exponents. There’s no doubt that at the first time around, Jones of the Eddie varietal was a picture perfect Jones of the Alan varietal example of a game plan coach.

Looking beyond Australia and somewhat more broadly, which approach is ‘better’? Is Dwyerism or Jonesism demonstrated as a more successful approach globally? A brief look at the World Cup winning coaches of recent times and what appears to be their philosophy is insightful:

1984 Alan Jones – Jonesism (Duh!)

1987 Brian Lochore – Dwyerism

1991 Bob Dwyer – Dwyerism (Duh!)

1995 Kitch Christie – Jonesism

1999 Rod Macqueen – a little contentious but I would say Jonesism (so 75% Jones & 25% Dwyer)

2003 Clive Woodward – Jonesism

2007 Jake White – Jonesism

2011 Graham Henry – a little contentious but I would say Jonesism (so 75% Jones & 25% Dwyer)

2015 Steve Hansen – a little contentious but I would say Dwyerism (so 75% Dwyer & 25% Jones)

2019 Rassie Erasmus – Jonesism

Now ok, Jones didn’t win a World Cup. But he did win a Grand Slam (the World Cup of the time) and he did it as not just the first Wobbly coach to do so, but gained some notoriety in the global game for being the first true ‘modern’ coach in his use of statistics, dossiers on individual opponents, detailed tapes and viewing sessions on opposing teams etc. Surely a notable achievement.

One interesting coach to chat about was Steve Hansen and his crop of 2015 All Blacks. That the All Blacks had a very definite style of play at that time makes it easy to say Hansen was a Jones devotee. However I would argue against that by simply recognising that one team which includes the likes of Retallick, Kaino, Ma’a Nonu and Conrad Smith before even getting to Dan Carter, Ritchie McCaw and Kieran Read pretty much means your playing a Dwyerism game by default. Frankly, with that amount of talent on hand, they could have played the game running backwards and still done well.

And anyone who thinks Rassie Erasmus wasn’t playing to a game plan first and foremost needs to check their medication.

Anyway, of the 10 major coaches above, at the most Dwyer generous the score is 3.25 to Dwyer (2 + 0.75 + 0.25 + 0.25) and 6.75 to Jones. Or if we count it by simple absolutes, it’s Jones by 7 to Dwyer’s 3. Either way Jones got up by a significant amount. So it would appear both by weight of numbers and perhaps even more tellingly by the more recent success of Jones v Dwyer approaches, the concept of picking a core game plan and finding players to match it is demonstrably more successful than selecting a core group of players and fitting a game plan to them.

Make Up Your Mind Time

That then leads to the chat about what approach will Eddie 2.0 apply to the Wobblies this time around? Will he stay Jonesism or shift to a Dwyerist coach? Can a tiger ever change its stripes? We don’t know yet. Certainly in his time at England, he was still using a Joneism approach. If nothing else, look at his adherence and promotion of the likes of Sinckler and Genge. Two more unEnglish props you will struggle to find. But EJ stuck with them as he pursued high workrate tight 5ers in adherence to his game plan. And his well known (and self confessed) infatuation admiration of rugby league reinforces this picture.

However, I would encourage Dear Readers to listen to his quite interesting 30min discussion with Phil Gould on Stan recently, wherein he quite clearly laments that the ‘structuralism’ of rugby has gone too far and needs to swing back towards a more ‘instinctive’ way of playing the game. This discussion suggests that EJ is perhaps no longer so rigid in his adherence to Jonesism as he once so clearly was. Time will tell.

And herein is the other conundrum: what does EJ need to be? Especially given his time at England as a Jones devotee led to his sacking, as it did with Dave Rennie as well. I really don’t think one can ‘have a bet each way’. So I do think EJ has to plant his stick one way or the other. But my gut tells me, particularly after listening to the Stan programme again yesterday, he may not be so ‘game plan rigid’ as I first did think he would be.

Your assignment, should you choose to accept it Dear Reader, is to consider the above and discuss. Have I posited those coaches accurately? What will EJ’s philosophy be? Should it be the other? Which approach is better? Let me know in the comments below.

We are a fan run website, we appreciate your support.

💬 Have you got a news article suggestion? Submit a story and have your say
👀 Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and X.com
🎵 Listen to our Podcasts on Spotify and iTunes
🎥 Watch our Podcasts on YouTube


News Opinion Rugby
Share. Facebook Twitter Pinterest LinkedIn Tumblr WhatsApp Email
Previous ArticleMonday’s Rugby News – 27/2/23
Next Article Wednesday’s Rugby News 01/03/2023
Nutta

I believe in diversity and broadening your horizons. So I play 1, 2 or 3. Motto - "Meat and potatoes first Boy. Then gravy."

Related Posts

Tuesday’s Rugby News

May 13, 2025

Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #69: great rugby, big injuries, spectacular results.

May 12, 2025

Thursday’s Rugby News – the final countdown

May 8, 2025

Yowie on the Loose: almost too much rugby news

May 7, 2025
Latest

Tuesday’s Rugby News

May 13, 2025

Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #69: great rugby, big injuries, spectacular results.

May 12, 2025

Friday’s Rugby News.

May 9, 2025

Lions Squad Named Tonight.

May 8, 2025
1 2 3 … 2,595 Next
Latest Super Rugby

Reds top of the pops.

March 29, 2025

More Tahs misery.

March 29, 2025

Super Rugby Round #7: Bye-bye-bye

March 24, 2025

Live: SRP ladder

March 22, 2025
1 2 3 … 790 Next
Latest Six Nations

Six Nations round 4

March 8, 2025

Tree Irish legends call time

February 28, 2025

Frogs flog Italy.

February 24, 2025

Welsh rugby: heartbeat found!

February 23, 2025
1 2 3 … 25 Next
GAGR Podcast
Follow Us
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Instagram
  • YouTube
About Us
About Us

greenandgoldrugby.com is your one stop shop for all things Rugby Union - news, podcasts, opinions, fixtures, events & everything in between.

greenandgoldrugby.com - created by fans of rugby, for fans of rugby.

About
Submit a Story
Authors
Contact
Privacy

Our Picks

Rising rally to overrun Queensland Country

September 4, 2016

Waratahs young leaders to shine

January 18, 2017

Eight ANGRY Observations from tonight’s game

June 18, 2016
New Comments
  • AllyOz on Tuesday’s Rugby News
  • GeorgiaSatellite on Tuesday’s Rugby News
  • GeorgiaSatellite on Tuesday’s Rugby News
  • Rob Hill on Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #69: great rugby, big injuries, spectacular results.
  • Damo on Tuesday’s Rugby News
Facebook X (Twitter) Instagram Pinterest
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Super Rugby
  • Wallabies
  • Podcast
  • Privacy Policy (2023)
© 2025 Ponderosa Publishing Pty Ltd | ABN 76 668 430 386.

Type above and press Enter to search. Press Esc to cancel.