Close Menu
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Shop
    • Jerseys
    • Training
    • Men
    • Women
    • Kids
    • Headwear
    • Gifts & Accessories
      • Babywear
      • Balls
      • Collectibles & Memorabilia
      • Home & Office
      • Keyrings
      • Pet Accessories
      • Scarves
      • Souvenirs
      • Toys & Games
    • Super Rugby
    • Clearance
  • Wallabies
  • Super Rugby
    • ACT Brumbies
    • Blues
    • Chiefs
    • Crusaders
    • Fijian Drua
    • Highlanders
    • Hurricanes
    • Moana Pasifika
    • NSW Waratahs
    • Queensland Reds
    • Western Force
  • Six Nations
  • Women’s
  • Sevens
  • Podcast

Subscribe to Updates

Get the latest creative news from FooBar about art, design and business.

What's Hot

Friday’s Rugby News.

May 30, 2025

Thursday’s Rugby News – The Last Round

May 29, 2025

Talking Teams Pod Week 16

May 28, 2025
Facebook Instagram YouTube X (Twitter)
Latest News
  • Friday’s Rugby News.
  • Thursday’s Rugby News – The Last Round
  • Talking Teams Pod Week 16
  • Yowie on the Loose: Rugby News wrapped-up like a beef wellington
  • Tuesday’s Rugby News
  • Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #71: who saw that coming?
  • The Dropped Kick-Off 154 – Finals Perms
  • Friday’s Rugby News.
  • Thursday’s Rugby News – the pointy end
  • Hump Day News – in from the side
  • Tuesday’s Rugby News
  • Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #70: Can Super Rugby get any better?
  • Friday’s Rugby News.
  • Talking Teams Pod Round 14
  • Thursday’s Rugby News – the pointy end
  • Collab Special – Talking Teams x The Dropped Kick-Off – discussing the Lions with The Eggchasers Rugby Podcast
  • Hump Day News – in from the side
  • Tuesday’s Rugby News
  • Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #69: great rugby, big injuries, spectacular results.
  • Friday’s Rugby News.
Green & Gold Rugby
0 Shopping Cart
Facebook Instagram YouTube X (Twitter)
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Shop
    • Jerseys
    • Training
    • Men
    • Women
    • Kids
    • Headwear
    • Gifts & Accessories
      • Babywear
      • Balls
      • Collectibles & Memorabilia
      • Home & Office
      • Keyrings
      • Pet Accessories
      • Scarves
      • Souvenirs
      • Toys & Games
    • Super Rugby
    • Clearance
  • Wallabies

    Tuesday’s Rugby News

    February 25, 2025

    G&GR readers hate Australians?

    February 23, 2025

    Schmidt extends Wallabies tenure through TRC as search for head coach successor begins

    February 6, 2025

    Tickets on sale for blockbuster Wallaroos and Wallabies home Tests

    February 5, 2025

    Tuesday’s Rugby News, 4 February 2025

    February 4, 2025
  • Super Rugby
    1. ACT Brumbies
    2. Blues
    3. Chiefs
    4. Crusaders
    5. Fijian Drua
    6. Highlanders
    7. Hurricanes
    8. Moana Pasifika
    9. NSW Waratahs
    10. Queensland Reds
    11. Western Force
    12. View All

    Brumbies lob first grenade.

    March 19, 2025

    Hoodoo Gurus: Brumbies beat Blues.

    March 8, 2025

    Super Rugby Women’s Team List: Trial Match v Queensland Reds

    February 5, 2025

    Brumbies and Raiders combine for ANZAC weekend fixtures

    February 4, 2025

    Sotutu Returns to Boost Blues for Highlanders Clash

    February 19, 2025

    MG Motor Joins Blues as Official Vehicle Partner

    February 13, 2025

    Tu’ungafasi Celebrates 150th Cap as Blues Unleash Star-Studded Line-Up at Eden Park Opener

    February 12, 2025

    Blues Team Up with Gerard Roofs for a Strong 2025 Season Partnership

    February 11, 2025

    Chiefs Prepare for Crusaders Clash: Brown’s Debut and Tupaea’s Milestone

    February 19, 2025

    Chiefs’ All Blacks Set for Pre-Season Action Against Moana Pasifika

    February 6, 2025

    Chiefs Unveil New Talent Ahead of Taranaki Pre-Season Clash

    January 30, 2025

    Chiefs’ Rising Star Wallace Sititi Sidelined After Knee Surgery

    January 25, 2025

    Crusaders Ready to Kick Off Pre-Season with Blues Battle in Kirwee

    January 30, 2025

    Crusaders Partner with Moa Brewing Company to Elevate Fan Experience

    January 23, 2025

    Jamie Hannah Commits to Crusaders Until 2028

    January 23, 2025

    Crusaders 2025 Tickets Now Available!

    January 23, 2025

    Fijian Drua to Host Rugby FCLA in Historic Fiji Showdown

    January 20, 2025

    Highlanders Set for Home Opener Against Blues

    February 19, 2025

    Waratahs edge Highlanders in thrilling season opener

    February 16, 2025

    Highlanders Announce Squad for Season Opener Against Waratahs

    February 12, 2025

    Highlanders Gear Up for Waitangi Day Showdown Against Crusaders

    February 4, 2025

    Xavier Numia Commits to Hurricanes Through 2027

    January 29, 2025

    Hurricanes Brew Up Partnership with Flight Coffee for 2025 Season

    January 28, 2025

    Hurricanes Poua Swap Rugby Boots for Riding Boots at Hutt Valley RDA

    January 16, 2025

    Match Review: Qld Reds v Moana Pacifika — Rd2 2025

    February 21, 2025

    Ardie Savea Named Moana Pasifika Captain for 2025 Super Rugby Season

    February 3, 2025

    Ardie Savea Named Moana Pasifika Captain for 2025 Super Rugby Season

    February 2, 2025

    Moana Pasifika Set to Face Highlanders in Pre-Season Opener

    January 29, 2025

    More Tahs misery.

    March 29, 2025

    Tahs best Brumbies.

    March 22, 2025

    Isaac Kailea re-signs with RA.

    March 21, 2025

    U18s & U20s Tahs sides named.

    March 14, 2025

    Reds top of the pops.

    March 29, 2025

    Reds break drought.

    March 22, 2025

    Tom ‘The Laser’ Lynagh: Its the vibe.

    March 22, 2025

    Caslick to start in Reds #100th.

    March 19, 2025

    Force out-Brumby the Brumbies 45-42.

    February 22, 2025

    Jeremy Williams Re-Signs with Western Force for Two More Years

    February 6, 2025

    Club captain Jeremy Williams re-commits to Western Force with new deal

    February 6, 2025

    Western Force Unveils Star-Studded Squad for Brumbies Pre-Season Clash

    February 5, 2025

    Reds top of the pops.

    March 29, 2025

    More Tahs misery.

    March 29, 2025

    Super Rugby Round #7: Bye-bye-bye

    March 24, 2025

    Live: SRP ladder

    March 22, 2025
  • Six Nations

    Six Nations round 4

    March 8, 2025

    Tree Irish legends call time

    February 28, 2025

    Frogs flog Italy.

    February 24, 2025

    Welsh rugby: heartbeat found!

    February 23, 2025

    Poms pinch it.

    February 23, 2025
  • Women’s

    More in store for Qld women’s comp.

    March 21, 2025

    Happy’s Thursday’s Rugby News

    November 28, 2024

    Happy’s Thursday’s Rugby News – progress mixed in with some injustice

    November 21, 2024

    Yowie on the Loose: How long until test rugby restarts?

    October 15, 2024

    Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #50: limited rugby, but plenty of news

    October 14, 2024
  • Sevens

    G&GR team’s podcast, Ireland and done

    December 2, 2024

    Happy’s Thursday’s Rugby News

    November 28, 2024

    Happy’s Thursday’s Rugby News – US edition marketing the game, Perry Baker, Super Rugby my new dawn.

    October 17, 2024

    Sevens Olympic Heaven!

    July 18, 2024

    Thursday’s Rugby News

    July 4, 2024
  • Podcast

    Talking Teams Pod Week 16

    May 28, 2025

    The Dropped Kick-Off 154 – Finals Perms

    May 23, 2025

    Collab Special – Talking Teams x The Dropped Kick-Off – discussing the Lions with The Eggchasers Rugby Podcast

    May 14, 2025

    The Dropped Kick-Off 153 – Schmeal – Les Kiss from a Rose

    April 30, 2025

    The Dropped Kick-Off 151 – did we mention we like the Tahs?

    April 18, 2025
Green & Gold Rugby
Home»Rugby»Moving the Rugby World Cup Draw
Rugby

Moving the Rugby World Cup Draw

EloiseBy EloiseSeptember 4, 202334 Comments
Facebook Twitter Pinterest LinkedIn Tumblr WhatsApp VKontakte Email
The 2023 Rugby World Cup Draw
The Great and the Good wonder WTH they've done
Share
Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Pinterest Email

Given the uneven balance of the draw for this year’s Rugby World Cup, there’s been a fair bit of talk, here and elsewhere, about changing the date of the draw. Obviously there has to be a draw, there needs to be a schedule, teams need to know who they’re playing, where and when with at least some notice. So, how might it change, what challenges will this cause and are there any solutions?

What Happens Now?

Before thinking about how we might change the Rugby World Cup draw, we ought to understand the process.

Currently the top 12 teams in the world are automatically included, in three separate bands of four. So each of Pool A, B, C and D will get one of the top 4, one of 5-8 and one of 9-12 at the time of the draw. These are called, imaginatively, Band 1, Band 2 and Band 3.

The last two places in each pool are also banded, Band 4 is Oceania 1, Americas 1, Europe 1 and Africa 1, while Band 5 gets Oceania 2, Americas 2, Play-off Winner and Repechage Winner. These places are very clearly not fixed, but come from regional competitions which start pretty much straight away after one World Cup finishes, so the remaining teams can qualify for the next one. The play-off winner and repechage winner gives all the teams from the regional contests that didn’t quite make it a chance to play off and the winner and the better of the second and third placed teams in a “second chance” – the repechage – to get a place as well. Quite a few sports have this kind of a system, the idea is that seeding it imprecise so teams that might have been unlucky get a second chance.

Part of the reason the date of the draw is fixed fairly early is nothing to do with logistics etc. it’s to make sure that the Top 12 is fixed and the teams that need to take place in regional competitions are known. Although we’re going to look a bit more closely at all the movement, Japan were in the top 12 for this draw, still buoyed up by their quarterfinal appearance in their home World Cup, but if the draw had been made at the end of 2022, they wouldn’t have been. However, they also would’ve missed all the Oceania qualifying competitions and wouldn’t be in the World Cup at all. This kind of thing is a problem we need to think about, and will look at it below.

The Nature of the Problem

Because of Covid, and the way it unevenly disrupted test matches, the date of the rankings used for the draw for 2023 was set unusually early. But there are mutterings that it should be moved much later for future World Cups. This would better reflect the world rankings at the time of the competition. This seems pretty reasonable.

While there’s a separate debate about the value of the world rankings, World Rugby publishes them, is the overall organiser of the World Cup, it’s going to use them as the basis for the seeding. What would happen to this year’s top three bands if we moved the draw date to the end of 2022? This is about as late as we can reasonable expect and still allow for some organisation. This would give us the following first three bands:

  1. Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa (that’s unchanged to today, but compared to what we’ve actually got France and South Africa in, Wales and England out)
  2. England, Australia, Scotland, Argentina (the order is different today but that doesn’t matter for a random draw. Fiji in, Australia out of this band. Wales skip this band. The actual draw has France, Ireland, Australia and Japan. Two teams up, one down and one out of the top 12. This band is annihilated by a later draw.)
  3. Wales, Japan, Samoa, Italy (Wales and Australia have fallen down from higher bands. Georgia is in. Japan and Italy out. The actual band 3 we have is Italy, Scotland, Fiji, Argentina. This would have one team drop out and three teams move up.)

So, overall, the top three bands would look really different. There might still be a Wales v Australia clash, and Fiji would miss out on an automatic place. It’s not perfect, Fiji missing out feels unfair but their improvement has really all come this year. The real change would be up in Band 1, where you’d spread the top four sides across the pools, which is good, and although the order has shifted since the end of 2022, the top four has remained the same. Shifting the order within a band doesn’t really matter, the idea is to distribute the teams one into each pool, nothing more. What would be more problematic would be if the teams in fourth and fifth place had swapped places between the end of 2022 and now. (Actually England have gone and been replaced by Scotland.) Doubly so if the team at five are in the same pool as the team ranked one. But no system is perfect, there are quite a few ifs in there, and it’s still better than what we’ve got now.

If it all works as we hope, and we assume that, as has happened all but once, the winner comes from the top four, this gives each of them the best chance of reaching the semi-final, and thus the final. We know this year that only two of the top four are reaching a semi-final at best, because they’re meeting in the quarterfinals (Scotland might mean that one of the top four is placed by the fifth ranked side).

Problems with a Late Draw

I can foresee at least two significant problems with have such a late draw. One I’ve alluded to above.

The Movement of the Teams

Consider Italy and Japan. Both teams, in the current draw are in Band 3, guaranteed a place in the draw. But if you wait until 2022, they’ve fallen out of the top 12 in the world and are no longer guaranteed a place. Do they miss out? Do we have a wider qualification competition, and teams that qualify by right of their ranking get in, the “winner” of the competition, Europe 1 and Oceania 1 in this case, are the team that placed best but didn’t qualify as of right?

I’m sure there are many solutions, but I’m going to propose one that I suspect makes sense if you’re World Rugby. Let the tier one nations qualify by right. Just to be clear, tier one is actually about voting rights at the World Rugby Council. If you have three votes, you’re a Tier One country. This list is Argentina, Australia, England, France, Ireland, Italy, New Zealand, Scotland, South Africa and Wales. That’s only 10 countries, so working out the other two countries for automatic inclusion is trickier. If a tier two country reaches the quarterfinals or further, they get into the draw by right. The remaining teams that finished in third place in their pools play off for the remaining one or two places.
However, ALL the bands are based on world rankings at the time of the draw.

Let’s consider Japan under this format. They reached the quarterfinals in 2019, so they would automatically qualify as one of the ‘top 12’ teams for 2023, but when it comes to the seeding, rather than being guaranteed a band 3 spot as they were, they would be compared to all the other qualifiers. I think that gets them a band 4 spot. If they’d gone up and were ranked 5th in the world, they’d be in Band 2, if they’d fallen further and were ranked 22nd, they’d be in Band 5. You would then, nicely, keep the current qualifying competitions, with clear information about who is competing in them.

I’m sure there are other solutions but there but the fact that there’s at least one reasonably elegant one suggests it’s not impossible to find a good one. A slightly different one, not so dependent on Tier One status is just to reward the teams that reach the quarterfinals, which gives you eight teams automatically included and extend the qualifying contests. Alternatively you could take the teams that finish in the top three places in one year and give them a place in the contest automatically – but not necessarily in the top three bands.

I don’t have a preference for any of these. I’m not arguing for any of them. I’m pointing out that this is a problem, but that there are solutions. It shouldn’t be beyond the wit of World Rugby to come up with an equitable solution that keep everyone fairly happy.

The Movement of the Players

The other obvious problem is one of logistics. However, with a bit of imagination this too can be solved. Currently each team finds a base, a hotel and training facilities, organises its own travel and so on. Everything is left up to them. But finding accommodation, even in September/October for about 60 people, in the right place, near a training facility, near where you’re playing – you want to book that some time in advance if you can. One instantly obvious solution is to change the process. Each team pays to the host organising committee, and the host committee books hotel rooms for “a Rugby World Cup team, full details to follow” near each venue. Teams are free to book a base separately, or pay for that to be booked if you’re going to have a base and play most of your pool games near there. Then, when the draw is made, the hosts firm up who goes where. There are probably more elegant solutions too, but that one will work. So it is solveable.

I may have missed other problems, I’m sure I have. The way France is organising things teams don’t really have a “base” in the way that previous teams have had. In Japan, and certainly in England, top seeded teams often had a situation where they played all their pool matches in one location. It didn’t help England much to play all their matches at Twickenham, but they did it. In 2019 it looks like everyone is moving around, all over France. So in the “host nations books the hotels” they’d have a lot more room booking to do. But that’s not insurmountable. It’s just more work.

Will It Happen?

I’m not going to pretend we’ll see exactly the system I’ve outlined. That was much more a thought exercise. What happens if we push this to an extreme? Can I see ways to cope with the problems I can think of? And the answer is yes.

Of course, there may be a killer problem I haven’t thought of. In addition, although after the November tests the year before would be nice, it was also good (despite the result) to see fixtures like Wales v Georgia in November 2022. Although Wales is pretty good about playing one tier two nation each November, that exact match would have been unlikely if we hadn’t known they’d both be in Pool C.
The tickets for this year’s World Cup matches went on sale in September 2022. That’s obviously a year ahead (it was actually exactly a year ahead) of the tournament. That seems like a good way to build up the anticipation. That was between rounds four and five of last year’s Rugby Championship. I think that’s probably the best compromise date, the rankings change a bit between early September and December but the bands wouldn’t, except we’d have Fiji instead of Italy in Band 3. Ironically that’s a fairer reflection of where we are today, except Fiji should be in Band 2.

Obviously I have never tried to organise an international rugby team, so I don’t know if a year is enough time to book a hotel, training facilities and the like. I think probably not, because the July and November test matches are booked up ages in advance. I’m not sure you need three years or more, but it’s that kind of timeframe that we see. But there are ways around that, as we’ve discussed. But France played Japan last November and had great attendance figures even though they’re in different pools, so it’s not a requirement to do that.

Concluding Thoughts

I think, although the only mutterings I’ve really heard are among the fans, WR has a bit of egg on its face. Yes, we all understand they made a decision because of Covid. Equally, no one expected all of Australia, England and Wales to tank their rankings. But, as I’ve discussed before since the ranking began, only teams in the top five have ever won. And they’re all in two pools, and in the pools that meet in the quarterfinals. Normally you’d expect the best four sides to meet in the semifinals, this year it looks like two of the best four sides are going home as losing quarterfinalists, two worse sides are going to get through to, potentially lopsided, semifinals. I say “looks like” because there can always be a shock result. In 2007 I don’t know that anyone expected Argentina to reach the semifinals. Same in 2015. However, in those years I don’t think anyone begrudged them their success, it felt like they’d performed better than teams expected to do better. (Supporters of teams they’d beaten in the quarterfinals may still begrudge them those victories.) This year, if they reach the semifinals, it will feel to many as if they’ve had an easier route than their opponent. And that’s not good. So I think something will happen. I’m just not sure what.

What do you think? Will they move the draw for the Rugby World Cup or fudge it and hope it doesn’t go so badly wrong again?

We are a fan run website, we appreciate your support.

💬 Have you got a news article suggestion? Submit a story and have your say
👀 Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and X.com
🎵 Listen to our Podcasts on Spotify and iTunes
🎥 Watch our Podcasts on YouTube


Share. Facebook Twitter Pinterest LinkedIn Tumblr WhatsApp Email
Previous ArticleFriday’s Rugby News: Spit & Syphilis.
Next Article Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #7: It’s the Final Countdown!
Eloise

Welsh rugby tragic. Erstwhile scientist. Somehow picked up the Wobs and the Rebs as "second teams" (mostly to annoy a South African friend and have something to talk about over coffee). Likes reminding the men that women exist and play rugby too.

Related Posts

Thursday’s Rugby News – The Last Round

May 29, 2025

Talking Teams Pod Week 16

May 28, 2025

Yowie on the Loose: Rugby News wrapped-up like a beef wellington

May 28, 2025

Mad Monday with Brisneyland Local #71: who saw that coming?

May 26, 2025

We are a fan run website, we appreciate your support.

We are determined to keep G&GR a free site for all rugby fans. A place for all to engage with rugby stories, opinions, articles, podcasts, discussions and more.

Show your support to G&GR


Latest

Friday’s Rugby News.

May 30, 2025

Thursday’s Rugby News – The Last Round

May 29, 2025

Talking Teams Pod Week 16

May 28, 2025

Yowie on the Loose: Rugby News wrapped-up like a beef wellington

May 28, 2025
1 2 3 … 2,599 Next
Latest Super Rugby

Reds top of the pops.

March 29, 2025

More Tahs misery.

March 29, 2025

Super Rugby Round #7: Bye-bye-bye

March 24, 2025

Live: SRP ladder

March 22, 2025
1 2 3 … 790 Next
Latest Six Nations

Six Nations round 4

March 8, 2025

Tree Irish legends call time

February 28, 2025

Frogs flog Italy.

February 24, 2025

Welsh rugby: heartbeat found!

February 23, 2025
1 2 3 … 25 Next
GAGR Podcast
Follow Us
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Instagram
  • YouTube
About Us
About Us

greenandgoldrugby.com is your one stop shop for all things Rugby Union - news, podcasts, opinions, fixtures, events & everything in between.

greenandgoldrugby.com - created by fans of rugby, for fans of rugby.

About
Submit a Story
Authors
Contact
Privacy

Our Picks

Rising rally to overrun Queensland Country

September 4, 2016

Waratahs young leaders to shine

January 18, 2017

Eight ANGRY Observations from tonight’s game

June 18, 2016
New Comments
  • Gun on Friday’s Rugby News.
  • Yowie on Friday’s Rugby News.
  • AllyOz on Friday’s Rugby News.
  • AllyOz on Friday’s Rugby News.
  • Reds and wallabies fan on Friday’s Rugby News.
Facebook X (Twitter) Instagram Pinterest
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Super Rugby
  • Wallabies
  • Podcast
  • Privacy Policy (2023)
© 2025 Ponderosa Publishing Pty Ltd | ABN 76 668 430 386.

Type above and press Enter to search. Press Esc to cancel.