Wallabies v Springboks, Sat 17th August 2024 Perth

[Strewthcobber]

Most of the guys we are talking about would be eligible under the Giteau Law?

This is just coaches not selecting them isn't it? Because they only get them for a couple of days before each game and then they leave in between games

 

[stillmissit]

7 is blindside in South Africa and 6 is openside. It's how they have always done it

thanks, forgot about that even though I played there for a couple of seasons.

 

[stillmissit]

Most of the guys we are talking about would be eligible under the Giteau Law?

This is just coaches not selecting them isn't it? Because they only get them for a couple of days before each game and then they leave in between games

It's a Gordian knot isn't it? If we pick them it is hard to integrate them into the current systems if we don't we have a weaker team. Maybe Schmidt will find a way around it but it's not too obvious atm.

 

[Dctarget]

Most of the guys we are talking about would be eligible under the Giteau Law?

This is just coaches not selecting them isn't it? Because they only get them for a couple of days before each game and then they leave in between games

The Springbok players make it work

 

[Tomthumb]

The Springbok players make it work

Yes, although they already have a system ingrained from a long serving coach, and players that have played so much rugby together they can pick up where they left off

 

[Strewthcobber]

Yes, although they already have a system ingrained from a long serving coach, and players that have played so much rugby together they can pick up where they left off

And mostly a Japan based player base to deal with, while lots of our key players are in Europe.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's a Gordian knot isn't it? If we pick them it is hard to integrate them into the current systems if we don't we have a weaker team. Maybe Schmidt will find a way around it but it's not too obvious atm.

Is there anything in Schmidt's system that a good rugby pro wouldn't be able to slot straight in to?

Not on evidence so far

 

[Dctarget]

So, let's start now? Clearly current system isn't working. All our PONI are in Japan or France, that's not too complicated.

 

[Derpus]

Most of the guys we are talking about would be eligible under the Giteau Law?

This is just coaches not selecting them isn't it? Because they only get them for a couple of days before each game and then they leave in between games

Yes its definitely systemic. We don't have the cash to keep them local and the ability to keep selecting a core group of players is severely limited once one or more of them goes offshore - particularly if they go to France.

I wonder if you could continue to offer an RA top-up to incentivise players only going to Japan rather than Europe (which makes them more or less useless to us IMO).

 

[Braveheart81]

The Springbok players make it work

They're utilising a lot more players without being forced to and for a substantial amount of their games, the distances to travel are a lot shorter with far fewer time zones crossed.

I think RA absolutely needs to embrace selecting more overseas based players more often but they also need to understand what works in terms of number of players, which players and how frequently.

For instance I don't think it is viable long term for (let's say) Will Skelton to fly from France to Sydney on Sunday 4 August, train Tuesday/Thursday/Friday, play a test match on Saturday 10 August, train the next week then play on Saturday 17 August, fly back to France then a week later fly from France to Argentina, train Tuesday/Thursday/Friday, play a test Saturday etc.

Does that player fly back with a clear signal that they aren't playing that first test but will definitely play the second when they've had a better build up?

It definitely seems that the best way to deal with this is to utilise it across more players but less frequently on a per player basis than is possible so the travel, workload and disruption is managed.

 

[Tomthumb]

So, let's start now? Clearly current system isn't working. All our PONI are in Japan or France, that's not too complicated.

It is quite complicated with France unfortunately, and is only going to get worse. Even the French national players miss Tests due to the top 14

 

[stillmissit]

They're utilising a lot more players without being forced to and for a substantial amount of their games, the distances to travel are a lot shorter with far fewer time zones crossed.

I think RA absolutely needs to embrace selecting more overseas based players more often but they also need to understand what works in terms of number of players, which players and how frequently.

For instance I don't think it is viable long term for (let's say) Will Skelton to fly from France to Sydney on Sunday 4 August, train Tuesday/Thursday/Friday, play a test match on Saturday 10 August, train the next week then play on Saturday 17 August, fly back to France then a week later fly from France to Argentina, train Tuesday/Thursday/Friday, play a test Saturday etc.

Does that player fly back with a clear signal that they aren't playing that first test but will definitely play the second when they've had a better build up?

It definitely seems that the best way to deal with this is to utilise it across more players but less frequently on a per player basis than is possible so the travel, workload and disruption is managed.

Bloody hard to build a team on that though BH.

 

[stillmissit]

Is there anything in Schmidt's system that a good rugby pro wouldn't be able to slot straight in to?

Not on evidence so far

Strewth, Well it seems to be beyond our current playing group. Last week they were all bunched up at times with zero organisation that I could see.

 

[stillmissit]

It doesn't appear that Schmidt wants them though

Maybe he wants to recreate Ireland and build on what he has. I agree though it is very odd to ignore them. Marky is another unless he's been released to go to NRL.

 

[Wilson]

The least complicated part would be dragging the 2024 departing players - Holloway, Swinton, Kemeny, Hanigan, Perese, Rodda etc

Injury aside, there's nothing stopping Schmidt from selecting any of them right now. It doesn't appear that Schmidt wants them though

I think it'll be different once he has a settled team, but the intent really appears to be building around those guys properly available long term.

It'd probably be slightly different if Tupou, Bell or Valetini were departing - they're always going to feature so you'd pick them whenever you can and build them into the team wherever they are, but the departing players this year don't really offer more than the ones staying.

 

[Marce]

Injury aside, there's nothing stopping Schmidt from selecting any of them right now. It doesn't appear that Schmidt wants them though

Apparently his building a team for the British Lions tour. That's good in the papers cause could be a shameful series

 

[stillmissit]

I think the time to rate Schmidt is the end of next year. This is just another short term horror story we have to go through.

 

[Marce]

7 is blindside in South Africa and 6 is openside. It's how they have always done it

Actually is the French system. Left flanker and right flanker

 

[Marce]

Maybe he wants to recreate Ireland and build on what he has. I agree though it is very odd to ignore them. Marky is another unless he's been released to go to NRL.

You are a little outdated

 

[Braveheart81]

Bloody hard to build a team on that though BH.

I think we need to move past this concept that we are trying to arrive at a settled team that is going to be our long term team. That is particularly hard when we clearly have some superior players who aren't available all the time.

I think you want as many good players involved as possible in whatever capacity that is reasonable. The aim is to pick the best side available each any every time.

If you could pencil in Will Skelton, Scott Sio and whoever else to play 6-8 tests each year then I would do that. They're not always available but they are available often enough that they are still regular members of the group.

I don't think you can look at our current squad and suggest that all these guys need is more time together. There are clearly a substantial number of players who aren't about to become superstars. No offence to the recent debutants but there's every chance that once Fraser McReight returns, Tizzano and Reimer never play another test. I think it's a fool's errand to think that the guys you have right now are all you need and you just need to put more time into them.