Wallabies v Springboks, Sat 17th August 2024 Perth

[Tomthumb]

Actually is the French system. Left flanker and right flanker

No, that’s different again.

 

[Marce]

This is based on nothing but I suspect that Laurie Fisher is not helping the cause. This is based on the fact that Schmidt doesn't know these players at an international level and may be forced to take advice from Fisher and cover the same ground as Rennie.

He can takes advice from anyone. He followed the Super Rugby season closely and he's a professional. The main problem is the pool of players, he isn't a magician. He works with what he has

 

[Joe Blow]

It’s going to take a bit of time to get to place where those OS players are able to slip in and out of the squad as it is with this SA side. Schmidt has said as much and that it’s unlikely that he will know his best side until after the EOYT. We have the BILs next year and a World Cup a few years after that.
One would think that we will move to a situation where the coach will have more leeway than the current Giteau setup and be able to bring in who he wants/needs at anytime. This of course dependent on injury, availability, test windows etc. We are all jumping up and down calling for him to bring in this and that player when he is just getting to know his initial group and mould them into his playing style. I am sure we will see a few more for the Argie and AB games and even more(if needed) on the EOYT.
Look where the Boks are. They could almost pick as good a side from players in SA or bring in half a starting side when needed or wanted from OS. Hopefully we will get into a similar space down the road.
Then there is Los Pumas. We turfed them out of Super Rugby and they now pick predominantly from OS. They have no choice but seem to be bouncing back pretty well.
Each national setup needs to find the right balance for them.

 

[Tomthumb]

I think we need to move past this concept that we are trying to arrive at a settled team that is going to be our long term team. That is particularly hard when we clearly have some superior players who aren't available all the time.

I think you want as many good players involved as possible in whatever capacity that is reasonable. The aim is to pick the best side available each any every time.

If you could pencil in Will Skelton, Scott Sio and whoever else to play 6-8 tests each year then I would do that. They're not always available but they are available often enough that they are still regular members of the group.

I don't think you can look at our current squad and suggest that all these guys need is more time together. There are clearly a substantial number of players who aren't about to become superstars. No offence to the recent debutants but there's every chance that once Fraser McReight returns, Tizzano and Reimer never play another test. I think it's a fool's errand to think that the guys you have right now are all you need and you just need to put more time into them.

No, but just the same we shouldn't just assume these players wont develop into much better players. We are only 4 games in to a new era. I stand by the belief that we still produce world class rugby players, and the fact that so many of them become that while overseas is evidence we may give up on some guys too early or we haven't had good enough coaches

 

[Strewthcobber]

PSDT is a blindside flanker

Who played 5 on the weekend.

But spent most of the game in the tram tracks spreading the attack, just like he would if he was wearing 7, but playing as a 6.

 

[Steve_Grey]

No, but just the same we shouldn't just assume these players wont develop into much better players. We are only 4 games in to a new era. I stand by the belief that we still produce world class rugby players, and the fact that so many of them become that while overseas is evidence we may give up on some guys too early or we haven't had good enough coaches

Likely off topic (apologies) but maybe we should consider 1 (or 2) OZ Teams based in Europe for the European URC? Too expensive I imagine?

SA have bolstered that competition.

 

[Braveheart81]

No, but just the same we shouldn't just assume these players wont develop into much better players. We are only 4 games in to a new era. I stand by the belief that we still produce world class rugby players, and the fact that so many of them become that while overseas is evidence we may give up on some guys too early or we haven't had good enough coaches

I think we do too. I think it's hard to go wrong if your aim is to select the best team available each and every game though (and availability includes overseas players but with an understanding that they can't play every game). Trying to predict who are going to be your best players in 2 years' time is a fool's errand. Picking your best team right now is far more likely to give you the best approximation of what that team is.

I would assume a large amount of the Springboks core of overseas based players have a pretty clear idea of when and where they will be involved and playing for the Springboks at the start of the season.

 

[Strewthcobber]

No, but just the same we shouldn't just assume these players wont develop into much better players. We are only 4 games in to a new era. I stand by the belief that we still produce world class rugby players, and the fact that so many of them become that while overseas is evidence we may give up on some guys too early or we haven't had good enough coaches

So why doesn't our national coach select any of these world-class rugby players for the national team?

 

[Steve_Grey]

Who played 5 on the weekend.

But spent most of the game in the tram tracks spreading the attack, just like he would if he was wearing 7, but playing as a 6.

And back to 7 (SA blindside) for Saturday's game...freakish player. Uber mobile 5 or rock solid blindside flanker.....which one you want to play against?

 

[Tomthumb]

I think we do too. I think it's hard to go wrong if your aim is to select the best team available each and every game though (and availability includes overseas players but with an understanding that they can't play every game). Trying to predict who are going to be your best players in 2 years' time is a fool's errand. Picking your best team right now is far more likely to give you the best approximation of what that team is.

I would assume a large amount of the Springboks core of overseas based players have a pretty clear idea of when and where they will be involved and playing for the Springboks at the start of the season.

Agreed. They seem to be a fair bit more committed to representing their nation than our players do to be honest as well which makes it far easier for them to plan around overseas players

 

[Tomthumb]

So why doesn't our national coach select any of these world-class rugby players for the national team?

Due to restrictions put on him by Peter Horne and co. and the restrictions put on him by the top 14 and international windows etc. A detailed coach like Schmidt would want time with guys on the training field to build cohesion, that isn't possible with these guys living on the other side of the world

 

[Tomthumb]

Who played 5 on the weekend.

But spent most of the game in the tram tracks spreading the attack, just like he would if he was wearing 7, but playing as a 6.

Yes, he was a brilliant young lock when he first came through

He could get away with being a bit looser due to the complete dominance they had up front

 

[stillmissit]

It’s going to take a bit of time to get to place where those OS players are able to slip in and out of the squad as it is with this SA side. Schmidt has said as much and that it’s unlikely that he will know his best side until after the EOYT. We have the BILs next year and a World Cup a few years after that.
One would think that we will move to a situation where the coach will have more leeway than the current Giteau setup and be able to bring in who he wants/needs at anytime. This of course dependent on injury, availability, test windows etc. We are all jumping up and down calling for him to bring in this and that player when he is just getting to know his initial group and mould them into his playing style. I am sure we will see a few more for the Argie and AB games and even more(if needed) on the EOYT.
Look where the Boks are. They could almost pick as good a side from players in SA or bring in half a starting side when needed or wanted from OS. Hopefully we will get into a similar space down the road.
Then there is Los Pumas. We turfed them out of Super Rugby and they now pick predominantly from OS. They have no choice but seem to be bouncing back pretty well.
Each national setup needs to find the right balance for them.

Agree with this Joe with a proviso that, if there are changes to coaches it is done seamlessly so that OS players don't turn up and all the systems they are used to have disappeared. ie Pissing on a fench.

 

[stillmissit]

And back to 7 (SA blindside) for Saturday's game...freakish player. Uber mobile 5 or rock solid blindside flanker.....which one you want to play against?

PSDT - Best forward in the world by my (and others') reckoning.

 

[stillmissit]

you just need to put more time into them.

We have done plenty of that in the last few years and the results have not been that great. I suspect the problem is Super Rugby and the gap to internationals.

 

[Marce]

I want to see us play fast and hard rugby, if there is too much thinking during the game we come unstuck

First step, gain some meters after contact. That would be great. It was embarrasing last saturday

 

[Homer]

First step, gain some meters after contact. That would be great. It was embarrasing last saturday

The bok chop tackling was super effective, especially from the front rowers. Valetini, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) etc were targeted and shut down very effectively. Playing with more depth (not Lolesio's strong point) would certainly help and create more space behind the D line.

 

[whitefalcon]

The least complicated part would be dragging in the 2024 departing players - Holloway, Swinton, Kemeny, Hanigan, Perese, Rodda etc

Injury aside, there's nothing stopping Schmidt from selecting any of them right now. It doesn't appear that Schmidt wants them though

Doesnt picking them just push the problem into next year against the Lions?

I kinda get where Joe is coming from. If the players arent going to be available for the biggest rugby event outside a world cup, why would he try and build around them now.

 

[whitefalcon]

Playing with more depth (not Lolesio's strong point) would certainly help and create more space behind the D line.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now and it confuses me.

Wasn't the feedback from Rennie to Noah constantly about needing to play flatter? And now we want him to play deeper?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Doesnt picking them just push the problem into next year against the Lions?

I kinda get where Joe is coming from. If the players arent going to be available for the biggest rugby event outside a world cup, why would he try and build around them now.

They are only not available if RA/Schmidt choose for them not to be.

Just about all the players we are talking about would have 5 season of Australian rugby. Eligible under current Giteau law