tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
No that is exactly NOT what I said. Check your vision, I said more running impact.
Harsh on Hooper on that one aswell, give the kid a break.
Harsh on Hooper on that one aswell, give the kid a break.
Wallabies 2012 Championship Squad
- Thread starter kronic
- Start date
- Status
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Do you actually think Hooper seagulls, misses tackles and lets in soft tries?
Strange.......
Reido
Sydney Middleton (9)
Absolutley. Check out the two missed tackles in the first 5 minutes against the Blues 2 weeks ago. The 2nd tackle that he missed would have saved a try. It's also not the first time. He is also ranked 2nd in Superugby for back rowers missing tackles with 33 for the season and 10th overall. Yes he misses tackles and lets in soft tries and he seagulls.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Ok, I'll bite.......
Firstly, this is simply not true.
Aside from being second in the competition for tackles made, Hooper hasn't made that number of missed tackles according to rugby stats.
To have made their top 20 he would needed to have a leat missed 29 tackles, and there are two other backrowers on that list.
Also, I don't think you understand what a seagull is.
A seagull is someone who waits out on the wings waiting for the ball to come to him.
Hooper is the complete opposite.
The guy has a massive workrate that not only sees him top the Australian tally with tackles, but he's only second to Gill on pilfers.
If you want to use one awful team performance and use it to create the norm, how about Pocock's 2 missed tackles against the Brumbies that directly led to tries?
If you think Hooper is a seagull, I'd hate to think what you think of Pocock.......
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
FYI.......
Missed tackles for 2012:
1. Beauden Barrett (Hurricanes) 44
1. Nick Phipps (Rebels) 44
3. Francois Hougaard (Bulls) 36
3. Peter Grant (Stormers) 36
5. Elton Jantjies (Lions) 35
5. Josh Strauss (Lions) 35
5. Rob Horne (Waratahs) 35
8. Charl Mcleod (Sharks) 34
9. Andrew Ellis (Crusaders) 32
9. Brett Sheehan (Force) 32
9. Willem Alberts (Sharks) 32
12. Aaron Cruden (Chiefs) 31
12. Faifili Levave (Hurricanes) 31
12. Nick Cummins (Force) 31
12. Sam Carter (Brumbies) 31
12. Tawera Kerr-Barlow (Chiefs) 31
17. Mark Gerrard (Rebels) 30
17. Willie Le Roux (Cheetahs) 30
19. Franco van der Merwe (Lions) 29
19. Tim Whitehead (Sharks)
Tackles made for 2012:
1. Marcell Coetzee (Sharks) 232
2. Michael Hooper (Brumbies) 230
3. Matt Todd (Crusaders) 229
4. Heinrich Brussow (Cheetahs) 215
5. Brodie Retallick (Chiefs) 212
6. Liam Messam (Chiefs) 209
7. Siyamthanda Kolisi (Stormers) 208
8. David Pocock (Force) 206
9. Gareth Delve (Rebels) 187
10. Stephen Moore (Brumbies) 185
11. Adam Thomson (Highlanders) 184
11. Sam Cane (Chiefs) 184
13. George Whitelock (Crusaders) 179
14. Jeremy Thrush (Hurricanes) 177
15. Liam Gill (Reds) 176
16. Derick Minnie (Lions) 169
16. Faifili Levave (Hurricanes) 169
18. Ben Mowen (Brumbies) 167
18. Luke Jones (Rebels) 167
20. Sam Carter (Brumbies) 166
Pilfers:
Most Pilfers
1. Liam Gill (Reds) 15
2. Michael Hooper (Brumbies) 11
3. Coenrad Oosthuizen (Cheetahs) 10
4. David Pocock (Force) 9
5. Derick Minnie (Lions) 8
5. Heinrich Brussow (Cheetahs) 8
5. Luke Braid (Blues) 8
8. Andrew Hore (Highlanders) 7
8. Deon Fourie (Stormers) 7
10. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 6
11. Adam Thomson (Highlanders) 5
11. Beau Robinson (Reds) 5
11. Chris Alcock (Waratahs) 5
11. Cobus Grobbelaar (Lions) 5
11. Saia Fainga'a (Reds) 5
11. Scott Fardy (Brumbies) 5
17. Jason Rutledge (Highlanders) 4
17. Karl Lowe (Hurricanes) 4
17. Michael Harris (Reds) 4
17. Tanerau Latimer (Chiefs) 4
Missed tackles for 2012:
1. Beauden Barrett (Hurricanes) 44
1. Nick Phipps (Rebels) 44
3. Francois Hougaard (Bulls) 36
3. Peter Grant (Stormers) 36
5. Elton Jantjies (Lions) 35
5. Josh Strauss (Lions) 35
5. Rob Horne (Waratahs) 35
8. Charl Mcleod (Sharks) 34
9. Andrew Ellis (Crusaders) 32
9. Brett Sheehan (Force) 32
9. Willem Alberts (Sharks) 32
12. Aaron Cruden (Chiefs) 31
12. Faifili Levave (Hurricanes) 31
12. Nick Cummins (Force) 31
12. Sam Carter (Brumbies) 31
12. Tawera Kerr-Barlow (Chiefs) 31
17. Mark Gerrard (Rebels) 30
17. Willie Le Roux (Cheetahs) 30
19. Franco van der Merwe (Lions) 29
19. Tim Whitehead (Sharks)
Tackles made for 2012:
1. Marcell Coetzee (Sharks) 232
2. Michael Hooper (Brumbies) 230
3. Matt Todd (Crusaders) 229
4. Heinrich Brussow (Cheetahs) 215
5. Brodie Retallick (Chiefs) 212
6. Liam Messam (Chiefs) 209
7. Siyamthanda Kolisi (Stormers) 208
8. David Pocock (Force) 206
9. Gareth Delve (Rebels) 187
10. Stephen Moore (Brumbies) 185
11. Adam Thomson (Highlanders) 184
11. Sam Cane (Chiefs) 184
13. George Whitelock (Crusaders) 179
14. Jeremy Thrush (Hurricanes) 177
15. Liam Gill (Reds) 176
16. Derick Minnie (Lions) 169
16. Faifili Levave (Hurricanes) 169
18. Ben Mowen (Brumbies) 167
18. Luke Jones (Rebels) 167
20. Sam Carter (Brumbies) 166
Pilfers:
Most Pilfers
1. Liam Gill (Reds) 15
2. Michael Hooper (Brumbies) 11
3. Coenrad Oosthuizen (Cheetahs) 10
4. David Pocock (Force) 9
5. Derick Minnie (Lions) 8
5. Heinrich Brussow (Cheetahs) 8
5. Luke Braid (Blues) 8
8. Andrew Hore (Highlanders) 7
8. Deon Fourie (Stormers) 7
10. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 6
11. Adam Thomson (Highlanders) 5
11. Beau Robinson (Reds) 5
11. Chris Alcock (Waratahs) 5
11. Cobus Grobbelaar (Lions) 5
11. Saia Fainga'a (Reds) 5
11. Scott Fardy (Brumbies) 5
17. Jason Rutledge (Highlanders) 4
17. Karl Lowe (Hurricanes) 4
17. Michael Harris (Reds) 4
17. Tanerau Latimer (Chiefs) 4
vidiot
John Solomon (38)
Josh Rakic states the obvious on Barnes vs Cooper at 10, then starts to wander:
Mitchell is an automatic selection if he is actually able to run at full pace.
Turner scrapes in if he is able to run at full pace. Shipperley doesn't kick as much (good and bad) and finds the tryline much more (IIRC, good). But he is a tyro (there you go Canno) and if Turner is actually fit and training well he would not let the wallabies down.
Vuna is Vuna.
Foley is not JOC (James O'Connor), I'd rather he wasn't bounced around backline completely randomly. Of course, Robbie can play him on the wing and fete him as a McCabesque success if he plays at last safely.
Cummins seems to have flown under the Rakic radar, and Ioane is the elephant in the room squashing the "at least".
Mitchell is an automatic selection if he is actually able to run at full pace.
Turner scrapes in if he is able to run at full pace. Shipperley doesn't kick as much (good and bad) and finds the tryline much more (IIRC, good). But he is a tyro (there you go Canno) and if Turner is actually fit and training well he would not let the wallabies down.
Vuna is Vuna.
Foley is not JOC (James O'Connor), I'd rather he wasn't bounced around backline completely randomly. Of course, Robbie can play him on the wing and fete him as a McCabesque success if he plays at last safely.
Cummins seems to have flown under the Rakic radar, and Ioane is the elephant in the room squashing the "at least".
vidiot
John Solomon (38)
there you go - fixed
trying to understand the thought process, Foley is a good 15 and could play that 2nd 15 role/14 (pace would be the concern) that I like to see - if AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell or Turner isn't up to it.
I see Cummins as Iaone's back up as that big, bustling blind side winger
I actually expect to see AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Iaone on the wing
I expect to see
Genia
Cooper
Iaone
Barnes
McCabe
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Beale
with White, a centre (Faainga or Horne) on the bench
It is what I describe the big winger we play for inside lines off set piece, Dell, Lote & Digby are all recent examples.
We usually play one big blindside unit and the other as a 2nd 15/14 JOC (James O'Connor), Mitchell, Turner, Roff etc who can kick and is comfortable under high balls
Reido
Sydney Middleton (9)
The stats I found show Hooper with 222 tackles made and 33 missed. That would put him in the top 10. I guess it depends where you get your stats from. Who's right, who's wrong? Hooper also played a lot more minutes this year so for him to have less pilfering than Gill also doesn't work in his favour.
The great thing about rugby is that there are so many ways to play it and different players to do different things. The team you would have sounds completely different to the team I would have. Who's team would be better? What is the better strategy? Who knows? Probably mine, because I'm bias.
If you're selecting Hooper or Gill in the Wallabies 22, they're essentially there as a second fetcher for late in the game as Pocock is going to be an 80 minute player if he is healthy.
My problem in bringing on a second 7 is neither of them have shown to do much in the scrum. If we're going to continue to have Alexander on the bench we're already going to have a weaker scrum late in the game.
My current thinking on the backrow is that we should just play one backrow reserve (being Dennis) so Palu can come off and either Higgers moves to 8 or Dennis comes on at 8 meaning Higgers and Pocock play 80 minutes.
At this stage I'd like to have 3 backs reserves so we can have White, Cooper or Barnes (unless they become 10/12), and an outside back.
My problem in bringing on a second 7 is neither of them have shown to do much in the scrum. If we're going to continue to have Alexander on the bench we're already going to have a weaker scrum late in the game.
My current thinking on the backrow is that we should just play one backrow reserve (being Dennis) so Palu can come off and either Higgers moves to 8 or Dennis comes on at 8 meaning Higgers and Pocock play 80 minutes.
At this stage I'd like to have 3 backs reserves so we can have White, Cooper or Barnes (unless they become 10/12), and an outside back.
Re Hooper just under 13% missed isn't great, but how many of those were in the back end of the season, he seemed to miss quite a few in the last few. (the reverse of Horne who missed plenty early and then got his shit together)
The guy looked to run out of puff towards the end of the S15 season, not surprising for a young guy in his first season playing week in, week out.
The guy looked to run out of puff towards the end of the S15 season, not surprising for a young guy in his first season playing week in, week out.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Therein lies the problem. I'd prefer Palmer off the bench.
- Status