Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rebel man]

I don't think you are getting why the whole deal si being talked about. As said Silver Lake aren't trying into ABs (or Aus) so they can get gate takings, or even to sell jerseys etc in NZ and Aus. They are wanting to take them into the World market and sell the brand. As has been pointed out AIG didn't pay $20 mill to sell more insurance down here, they did it because the ABs are seen on TV and in papers around the world. It not about trying to hook even supporters away from USA, let's face it USA rugby supporters will probably buy a USA rugby jersey etc, but someone just buying something to wear are going to buy what they have seen on tv. As a case in point was watching Japanese club game the other day, and in the crowd I saw a couple of AB jerseys and what I noticed the most were some wearing Taranaki rugby jerseys. It was Barrett's team he playing in , and the colours were bot based on a yellow or amber whatever you call it. See it looks as if the supporters were wearing jerseys from BB's province at home as it similar.
You just have to drop the idea it got anything to do with selling tickets to tests ,or that NZ or Aus are the markets for Silver Lake, but the whole world is.

I know it’s not about selling tickets as the home union keeps the gate. My point there was I didn’t agree it was the power of the All Blacks brand that sold the game in the US seeings that they played Ireland in an area full of Irish Americans. Just think there is a lot of risk buying into the all blacks as there is little growth potential

 

[Rebel man]

FYA.. ACT, Vic and WA have the same voting bloc and can vote something down despite not not being the majority as well

I am not laying the blame on QLD or NSW for the broken model they have too much power and it is incumbent on them to vote in the best interest of their unions

 

[Dan54]

I know it’s not about selling tickets as the home union keeps the gate. My point there was I didn’t agree it was the power of the All Blacks brand that sold the game in the US seeings that they played Ireland in an area full of Irish Americans. Just think there is a lot of risk buying into the all blacks as there is little growth potential

Yep, but I suspect an outfit like Silver Lakes has done their homework and have a fairly good idea if there any market there. And why do you think Ireland didn't play Wallabies for instnace in Boston? Perhaps not the brand recognition? Following your point Ireland would fill a stadium playing anyone there?

 

[Rebel man]

Yep, but I suspect an outfit like Silver Lakes has done their homework and have a fairly good idea if there any market there.

Just like investment bankers doing their homework lead us to the GFC. I am by no means saying it can’t work it’s just I am more conservative and risk adverse then them obviously. I get that they base their growth projections off the the growth in the game world wide and would be investing to see their asset (NZRU) value increase and not for an annual return

 

[Derpus]

Just like investment bankers doing their homework lead us to the GFC. I am by no means saying it can’t work it’s just I am more conservative and risk adverse then them obviously. I get that they base their growth projections off the the growth in the game world wide and would be investing to see their asset (NZRU) value increase and not for an annual return

 

[KevinO]

Following your point Ireland would fill a stadium playing anyone there?

Yep, Irish fans will fill any stadium any where.

Did you know the biggest attendance at the Rugby world cup is Ireland v Romania, 89,267 at Wembley Stadium.

 

[Rebel man]

Yep, but I suspect an outfit like Silver Lakes has done their homework and have a fairly good idea if there any market there. And why do you think Ireland didn't play Wallabies for instnace in Boston? Perhaps not the brand recognition? Following your point Ireland would fill a stadium playing anyone there?

Look the fact it’s a good game helps but the Irish fans rolled in to watch the Irish side

 

[Braveheart81]

Look the fact it’s a good game helps but the Irish fans rolled in to watch the Irish side

Sure, but the All Blacks are the team that gets paid to play the match.

The All Blacks get to charge a higher match fee to play away tests on the EOYT etc. than other teams because they know the match is more valuable to the host.

Silver Lake aren't buying potential growth in New Zealand. They're buying into the most valuable brand in World Rugby who generate a lot of their revenue outside of New Zealand.

Their only real care about New Zealand domestically is that rugby remains the number one sport in town such that the All Blacks can continue being on average the best team in World Rugby so the brand retains its value.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

The All Blacks get to charge a higher match fee to play away tests on the EOYT etc. than other teams because they know the match is more valuable to the hose.

I'll give you the hose.

 

[Rebel man]

Sure, but the All Blacks are the team that gets paid to play the match.

The All Blacks get to charge a higher match fee to play away tests on the EOYT etc. than other teams because they know the match is more valuable to the hose.

Silver Lake aren't buying potential growth in New Zealand. They're buying into the most valuable brand in World Rugby who generate a lot of their revenue outside of New Zealand.

Their only real care about New Zealand domestically is that rugby remains the number one sport in town such that the All Blacks can continue being on average the best team in World Rugby so the brand retains its value.

But southern nations don’t get paid for the northern tours that’s why there are so many issues with in equality in rugby

 

[Braveheart81]

I'll give you the hose.

I am not rubbing the lotion on my skin.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Just like investment bankers doing their homework lead us to the GFC. I am by no means saying it can’t work it’s just I am more conservative and risk adverse then them obviously. I get that they base their growth projections off the the growth in the game world wide and would be investing to see their asset (NZRU) value increase and not for an annual return

These are not the same.

 

[Braveheart81]

But southern nations don’t get paid for the northern tours that’s why there are so many issues with in equality in rugby

Sorry, it is just the out of window tests they receive a match fee for.

New Zealand would typically have one of these a year. Most recent years, Australia has had two.

 

[Adam84]

I read the PE in NZRU was looking for a 15% stake, but critically that also came with veto rights.

That’s a pretty significant clause, and quite amazing that a 15% minority stake would possess veto rights.

Potentially you’re going to have scenarios where PE may want to host more ‘home’ games in offshore locations, it’s conceivable the will sell All Black home games to somewhere like Hong Kong, Japan or even Australia.

Other factor for PE is the broadcast rights, there is a track record on pushing their investments behind pay-walls. I’m not sure of the current broadcast situation in NZ and whether it is on free to air, but potentially it won’t be in the future.

 

[Rebel man]

Sorry, it is just the out of window tests they receive a match fee for.

New Zealand would typically have one of these a year. Most recent years, Australia has had two.

Look I was getting my information in that regard from oceans apart. Great documentary if you haven’t watched it. But even with these higher fees they don’t turn a profit

 

[Rebel man]

I read the PE in NZRU was looking for a 15% stake, but critically that also came with veto rights.

That’s a pretty significant clause, and quite amazing that a 15% minority stake would possess veto rights.

Potentially you’re going to have scenarios where PE may want to host more ‘home’ games in offshore locations, it’s conceivable the will sell All Black home games to somewhere like Hong Kong, Japan or even Australia.

Other factor for PE is the broadcast rights, there is a track record on pushing their investments behind pay-walls. I’m not sure of the current broadcast situation in NZ and whether it is on free to air, but potentially it won’t be in the future.

Pretty sure it’s all on PTV all ready.

 

[Rebel man]

These are not the same.

Never said it was, the point was more broadly just because an investment firm or economist or anyone has said it’s a good deal they are not infallible and do get it wrong. They are playing a dangerous game if they want to target markets outside of NZ they risk losing interest back home and if they do that competitions like the NRL and to a lesser extent the AFL will be ready to try and expand into NZ.

 

[Braveheart81]

But even with these higher fees they don’t turn a profit

They're designed to break even with the balancing item essentially being distributions to the sub unions and expenditure on grassroots development. The more successful they are, the greater those distributions are but there is never the goal to just accumulate massive profits over the long term.

From what I understand Silver Lake are actually trying to buy a share of that top line revenue from broadcast rights etc. so the question for NZRU is whether the big capital injection they get and the potential for Silver Lake to help them grow the size of the overall pie can make up for forgoing a share of their revenue generated.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I read the PE in NZRU was looking for a 15% stake, but critically that also came with veto rights.

That’s a pretty significant clause, and quite amazing that a 15% minority stake would possess veto rights.

Potentially you’re going to have scenarios where PE may want to host more ‘home’ games in offshore locations, it’s conceivable the will sell All Black home games to somewhere like Hong Kong, Japan or even Australia.

Other factor for PE is the broadcast rights, there is a track record on pushing their investments behind pay-walls. I’m not sure of the current broadcast situation in NZ and whether it is on free to air, but potentially it won’t be in the future.

You could achieve the same by building out the existing structures. Such as the RC. By pushing to include Japan in the competition. Which in terms of path of least resistance is what Silver Lake would likely do.

 

[Rebel man]

They're designed to break even with the balancing item essentially being distributions to the sub unions and expenditure on grassroots development. The more successful they are, the greater those distributions are but there is never the goal to just accumulate massive profits over the long term.

From what I understand Silver Lake are actually trying to buy a share of that top line revenue from broadcast rights etc. so the question for NZRU is whether the big capital injection they get and the potential for Silver Lake to help them grow the size of the overall pie can make up for forgoing a share of their revenue generated.

But they don’t break even, 2018 they lost $1.9 million, 2019 they lost 7.4 million obviously that’s pre covid. It’s a misconception that not posting a profit means they are breaking even