Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dismal Pillock]

 

[Derpus]

Am i the only infuriated by the fact that the first post on page 1000 was number 19981 and not 20001?

 

[dru]

Well that's me done. Had my money on the answer being the imaginary number i
[square root of -1]

42 hey? Seem to have heard it all before.

 

[Rebel man]

Too true mate, so I suppose you get someone like Silver Lakes to help create more money. I was reading that almost every sport knows they will never make more money in future from ticket sales .

The thing for mine that will always hold NZ back is the small size of the domestic economy. This coupled with the rapid financial growth of the game overseas may help them. The West Indies use to have fans where ever they toured being the rockstar of world cricket but that doesn’t last too long

 

[Rebel man]

But they know they're going to lose that money in a RWC year and they budget for it across the four year cycle.

They don't just strip out $7.5m of funding so they can break even that year. They lost $7.5m because they maintained the funding.

But the point is if they keep taking a loss they will end up like Australia. There will be no World Cup for a long time so all they have that deliver a profit under the current model is Lions tours the costs associated with the professional game will keep rising as well.

 

[Adam84]

The thing for mine that will always hold NZ back is the small size of the domestic economy. This coupled with the rapid financial growth of the game overseas may help them. The West Indies use to have fans where ever they toured being the rockstar of world cricket but that doesn’t last too long

Bit different though..
WI were a once in a generation crop of superstars, New Zealand is a constant churn of world class players and competitive teams over the past 50 years

 

[hoggy]

But the point is if they keep taking a loss they will end up like Australia. There will be no World Cup for a long time so all they have that deliver a profit under the current model is Lions tours the costs associated with the professional game will keep rising as well.

And that just highlights the complete folly of trying to find solutions using a model that will never deliver you any long term stability.
Chasing never ending pots of gold with some foreign entity just confines you to forever being a beggar, once you've sold the kitchen sink there isn't much left.
Ultimately Club game competitions will dominate the finances of the code. English, French and now Japan and America, what do they have in common.
All we're doing by ignoring our own domestic market is slowly turning ourselves into the West Indies.

 

[Rebel man]

And that just highlights the complete folly of trying to find solutions using a model that will never deliver you any long term stability.
Chasing never ending pots of gold with some foreign entity just confines you to forever being a beggar, once you've sold the kitchen sink there isn't much left.
Ultimately Club game competitions will dominate the finances of the code. English, French and now Japan and America, what do they have in common.
All we're doing by ignoring our own domestic market is slowly turning ourselves into the West Indies.

How so Europe has grown of the back of private equity. Scotland Wales and Ireland aren’t big markets at all.

It comes down to what you do with the money

 

[Rebel man]

Bit different though..
WI were a once in a generation crop of superstars, New Zealand is a constant churn of world class players and competitive teams over the past 50 years

West Indies were good from the 70s to the beginning of the 2000s hardly once in a generation

 

[Rugbynutter39]

How so Europe has grown of the back of private equity. Scotland Wales and Ireland aren’t big markets at all.

It comes down to what you do with the money

Yep as our experience with wasting the windfall from 2003 shows by wasting on failed ARC (bad business model) and funds given to state unions (enough said) versus what O’Neil wanted which was invest the money in oz rugby future fund. Biggest concern with Private equity investment is we waste the funds with another round of poor investments but under Hamish less likely and also given well known history of 2003 wasted windfall I think also why maybe less likely.

 

[Adam84]

West Indies were good from the 70s to the beginning of the 2000s hardly once in a generation

Decline started well before the 2000s, WI golden era was 78 to 95.

More to the point, they haven’t had the sustained success that NZ have, New Zealand have been good since 1950s and the lowest they’ve dropped to in rankings is 3rd in the modern era. WI cricket success is more akin to Australia’s rugby success through the 90s and 00s, and failing to replicate it as the game transitioned form amateur to professional.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Decline started well before the 2000s, WI golden era was 78 to 95.

More to the point, they haven’t had the sustained success that NZ have, New Zealand have been good since 1950s and the lowest they’ve dropped to in rankings is 3rd in the modern era. WI cricket success is more akin to Australia’s rugby success through the 90s and 00s, and failing to replicate it as the game transitioned form amateur to professional.

Other way around, Australia adjusted best to professionalism. The others caught up, and we failed to keep building post-2003.

 

[Braveheart81]

Other way around, Australia adjusted best to professionalism. The others caught up, and we failed to keep building post-2003.

I'm with Adam84. I think it's more that we started falling away with professionalism. The great era we had around the '99 team was more a product of the generational talent than anything we did with professionalism.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

And that just highlights the complete folly of trying to find solutions using a model that will never deliver you any long term stability.
Chasing never ending pots of gold with some foreign entity just confines you to forever being a beggar, once you've sold the kitchen sink there isn't much left.
Ultimately Club game competitions will dominate the finances of the code. English, French and now Japan and America, what do they have in common.
All we're doing by ignoring our own domestic market is slowly turning ourselves into the West Indies.

I actually think PE could help alter the thinking behind the TT competition long term. Don't think for a minute that the likes of the NRL wouldn't like to have multiple NZ based teams if they could manage it. Problem is they've got so many teams in NSW and need to service Qld more so at best all they'll ever have is two. And in doing so will severely stretch their playing pool.

WE could still build off a TT competition. And PE firms looking for ROI could be the catalyst. I think the ultimate goal in a TT competition should be to eventually reach 16 teams. And realistically the only way of doing that is by growing into Australia. That will require a significant degree of investment and long term planning to achieve. But it certainly would be a path forward.

 

[RugbyReg]

Other way around, Australia adjusted best to professionalism. The others caught up, and we failed to keep building post-2003.

perhaps we had a handful of once in a generation players in Horan, Larkham, Eales and a few nearly there in Wilson, Gregan, Kefu, Burke

 

[Rebel man]

Decline started well before the 2000s, WI golden era was 78 to 95.

More to the point, they haven’t had the sustained success that NZ have, New Zealand have been good since 1950s and the lowest they’ve dropped to in rankings is 3rd in the modern era. WI cricket success is more akin to Australia’s rugby success through the 90s and 00s, and failing to replicate it as the game transitioned form amateur to professional.

Even if the decline started in 95 it’s still 20 years of dominating the world now none of their best prospects even want to play for them

 

[Adam84]

Even if the decline started in 95 it’s still 20 years of dominating the world now none of their best prospects even want to play for them

No matter how you frame it, it’s still not a relevant comparison to New Zealand Rugby. They’re apples and oranges

 

[Rebel man]

No matter how you frame it, it’s still not a relevant comparison to New Zealand Rugby. They’re apples and oranges

On field dominance is only one part of the beast and if you turn to shit on the park the fans disappear quickly

 

[Rugbynutter39]

On field dominance is only one part of the beast and if you turn to shit on the park the fans disappear quickly

Fans dissappearing hmm

 

[Adam84]

On field dominance is only one part of the beast and if you turn to shit on the park the fans disappear quickly

No doubt.
That doesn’t mean the West Indes are evidence that this will happen in New Zealand, there’s so many variables which stand them apart.

Again I think the WI are a better reflection of Australian Rugby. A Once in a generation playing group and at the transition between amateur and professionalism that had them defy the traditional pecking order.