Where to for Super Rugby?

[KOB1987]

The real growth in Australian rugby will come from a decent Domestic product, this Wallaby fantasy of pots of gold is what got us to our current situation.
A successful Wallabies can help compliment that growth. But just like those wonder years of Wallaby success when apparently we out-rated the AFL/NRL, problem was as soon as the party was over people realized there was fuckall reason to hang around.

No the problem was that as soon as the party was over the powers that be got complacent and didn’t invest back in the game.

yes there needs to be a far greater emphasis on the grassroots and the domestic product, but the Wallaby pot of gold is a real thing, especially if we host the Lions and the RWC within a 3 year period. They need to go well though and make some serious investment ahead of that to maximise the return. I’d say RA will start to gear up ahead of the RWC in 2023 to bring some players back so that we perform in the RWC that year and we will have a kick arse squad assembled for the 3 years starting with the Lions. I think it’s a pretty exciting period coming up imminently.

i digress though, all that is only the first step, once these two trophies are in the cabinet and the coffers are full, there needs to be the right people in charge to make sure the money is used to grow the game with maximum impact.

 

[Rebel man]

The real growth in Australian rugby will come from a decent Domestic product, this Wallaby fantasy of pots of gold is what got us to our current situation.
A successful Wallabies can help compliment that growth. But just like those wonder years of Wallaby success when apparently we out-rated the AFL/NRL, problem was as soon as the party was over people realized there was fuckall reason to hang around.

But it takes money to grow a product. We went backwards as there was never a plan for the future or to grow the game we thought we would just keep being successful. We should of been putting in the ground work for the Rebels and force in the 90s. When private equity bought into the northern hemisphere rugby the price of players exploded hurting our all ready out dated business plan.

We have seen in Melbourne success in the Rebels to grow the game. Two players in the Rebels squad came through the Fountain Gate Rugby academy. There are a lot of other areas in Melbourne they could role out similar programs if they had the money. We need to be focusing the money we raise getting more and more players into these sorts of development programs all across the country

 

[Rebel man]

No the problem was that as soon as the party was over the powers that be got complacent and didn’t invest back in the game.

yes there needs to be a far greater emphasis on the grassroots and the domestic product, but the Wallaby pot of gold is a real thing, especially if we host the Lions and the RWC within a 3 year period. They need to go well though and make some serious investment ahead of that to maximise the return. I’d say RA will start to gear up ahead of the RWC in 2023 to bring some players back so that we perform in the RWC that year and we will have a kick arse squad assembled for the 3 years starting with the Lions. I think it’s a pretty exciting period coming up imminently.

i digress though, all that is only the first step, once these two trophies are in the cabinet and the coffers are full, there needs to be the right people in charge to make sure the money is used to grow the game with maximum impact.

That’s why we need to follow the AFL’s lead one of AFL commissions (first the Australasian Football council that was founded in 1906) key responsibilities is to grow the game nation wide. Now I have said this before but with the federated model it makes QLD and NSW hopelessly conflicted

 

[hoggy]

No the problem was that as soon as the party was over the powers that be got complacent and didn’t invest back in the game.

yes there needs to be a far greater emphasis on the grassroots and the domestic product, but the Wallaby pot of gold is a real thing, especially if we host the Lions and the RWC within a 3 year period. They need to go well though and make some serious investment ahead of that to maximise the return. I’d say RA will start to gear up ahead of the RWC in 2023 to bring some players back so that we perform in the RWC that year and we will have a kick arse squad assembled for the 3 years starting with the Lions. I think it’s a pretty exciting period coming up imminently.

i digress though, all that is only the first step, once these two trophies are in the cabinet and the coffers are full, there needs to be the right people in charge to make sure the money is used to grow the game with maximum impact.

So what happens when somehow those trophies don't make it to the cabinet, and what happens if the right people somehow are not in charge.
So what happens when the Lions stop touring due to club games dictating availability.
And what happens when somehow with all that money, the only plan you have is to prop up the Wallabies, sort of deja vue really.

 

[KOB1987]

So what happens when somehow those trophies don't make it to the cabinet, and what happens if the right people somehow are not on charge.
So what happens when the Lions stop touring due to club games dictating availability.
And what happens when somehow with all that money, the only plan you have is to prop up the Wallabies, sort of deja vue really.

I think you misinterpreted me, I was agreeing with you. There’s a golden opportunity coming up to print cash for 3 years, it’s what happens after that which is the important part.

 

[Rebel man]

So what happens when somehow those trophies don't make it to the cabinet, and what happens if the right people somehow are not on charge.
So what happens when the Lions stop touring due to club games dictating availability.
And what happens when somehow with all that money, the only plan you have is to prop up the Wallabies, sort of deja vue really.

The wallabies sell the game to Australians super rugby keeps people engaged. The lions will keep coming. When the wallabies were strong the tri nations and super rugby were strong as well

A strong domestic product and a strong wallabies goes hand in hand

 

[hoggy]

But it takes money to grow a product. We went backwards as there was never a plan for the future or to grow the game we thought we would just keep being successful. We should of been putting in the ground work for the Rebels and force in the 90s. When private equity bought into the northern hemisphere rugby the price of players exploded hurting our all ready out dated business plan.

We have seen in Melbourne success in the Rebels to grow the game. Two players in the Rebels squad came through the Fountain Gate Rugby academy. There are a lot of other areas in Melbourne they could role out similar programs if they had the money. We need to be focusing the money we raise getting more and more players into these sorts of development programs all across the country

And what about all the money we've had for 20 years, don't you remember taking over the world with Super rugby, It will always take money. So how much has those 2 Fountain gate members cost the game.

So what is our new updated business plan. A TT competition alliance with a union who have just been brought out by a PE firm who just basically brought the All Blacks brand.

 

[Rebel man]

And what about all the money we've had for 20 years, don't you remember taking over the world with Super rugby, It will always take money. So how much has those 2 Fountain gate members cost the game.

So what is our new updated business plan. A TT competition alliance with a union who have just been brought out by a PE firm who just basically brought the All Blacks brand.

I wouldn’t know how much it has cost to run the academy

The issue is financial but it’s also governance. Under the federated model that the private equity firms aren’t keen on we will never get a positive outcome for the game as too much power lies with NSW and QLD and they are then hopelessly conflicted.

 

[hoggy]

I think you misinterpreted me, I was agreeing with you. There’s a golden opportunity coming up to print cash for 3 years, it’s what happens after that which is the important part.

Well good luck, but I'm always a bit suspicious when someone offers to print cash for you.

 

[Rebel man]

Well good luck, but I'm always a bit suspicious when someone offers to print cash for you.

The World Cup will make money so will the lions tours. The stadiums will be sold out and the TVs will be tuned it. I have a few mates who are English expats don’t watch the England national side but always will tune into Lions test.

We all agree there needs to be structural changes but the money that’s on its way in is as good as guaranteed. That is until Russia pays off the bosses of World Rugby to host the 2027 World Cup

 

[hoggy]

I wouldn’t know how much it has cost to run the academy

The issue is financial but it’s also governance. Under the federated model that the private equity firms aren’t keen on we will never get a positive outcome for the game as too much power lies with NSW and QLD and they are then hopelessly conflicted.

But that's the problem your solution will ensure the exact model you rail against will stay in place. The over reliance on a single entity to run the code will forever be an albatross around its neck, who the f---k is ever going to make themselves redundant.

And just like the wallabies, having single entities in each of those states of course there hopelessly conflicted.

 

[Rebel man]

But that's the problem your solution will ensure the exact model you rail against will stay in place. The over reliance on a single entity to run the code will forever be an albatross around its neck, who the f---k is ever going to make themselves redundant.

And just like the wallabies, having single entities in each of those states of course there hopelessly conflicted.

Well if we have an independent body running the game the will make decisions that are the best for Australian rugby as a whole and growing the sport unlike now when the powers to be have to pass something NSW and QLD are afforded the power to vote it down despite not being the majority

 

[hoggy]

Well if we have an independent body running the game the will make decisions that are the best for Australian rugby as a whole and growing the sport unlike now when the powers to be have to pass something NSW and QLD are afforded the power to vote it down despite not being the majority

But NSW and QLD aren't ruining the game, 90% of those people are running sausage sizzles on Saturday keeping there clubs afloat, just like in Melbourne.
The issue has always been on the over reliance of servicing a top down performance model that 90% of Australians have little attachment to.
Australians are tribal based supporters, they'll tune into the Wallabies but until you give them a South Sydney or Collingwood you'll forever be just an invited guest.

 

[Rebel man]

But NSW and QLD aren't ruining the game, 90% of those people are running sausage sizzles on Saturday keeping there clubs afloat, just like in Melbourne.
The issue has always been on the over reliance of servicing a top down performance model that 90% of Australians have little attachment to.
Australians are tribal based supporters, they'll tune into the Wallabies but until you give them a South Sydney or Collingwood you'll forever be just an invited guest.

NSW and QLD are running the game and have always been running it. Rugby is never going to give us a Collingwood and unfortunately they lost the Rabbitohs to League 113 years ago.

That’s the problem NSW and QLD have a disproportionate amount of power when it comes to voting on those things. Both those unions 100% have to act in the best interest of their members. But the issue is with the power they hold between them it’s hard to ever get anything done or any reform to be made

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Ooh 997. So close!

 

[Dan54]

Bit of mayo on that they went to an area with a massive Irish community and played Ireland. The ABs aren’t selling out a stadium playing the USA

I don't think you are getting why the whole deal si being talked about. As said Silver Lake aren't trying into ABs (or Aus) so they can get gate takings, or even to sell jerseys etc in NZ and Aus. They are wanting to take them into the World market and sell the brand. As has been pointed out AIG didn't pay $20 mill to sell more insurance down here, they did it because the ABs are seen on TV and in papers around the world. It not about trying to hook even supporters away from USA, let's face it USA rugby supporters will probably buy a USA rugby jersey etc, but someone just buying something to wear are going to buy what they have seen on tv. As a case in point was watching Japanese club game the other day, and in the crowd I saw a couple of AB jerseys and what I noticed the most were some wearing Taranaki rugby jerseys. It was Barrett's team he playing in , and the colours were bot based on a yellow or amber whatever you call it. See it looks as if the supporters were wearing jerseys from BB's province at home as it similar.
You just have to drop the idea it got anything to do with selling tickets to tests ,or that NZ or Aus are the markets for Silver Lake, but the whole world is.

 

[Dan54]

Bit of mayo on that they went to an area with a massive Irish community and played Ireland. The ABs aren’t selling out a stadium playing the USA

Well yes they are I think you would find. Like I say I don't understand it, but ABs play in Italy, they sell out stadiums, and big ones, 6 nations games don't sell them out. It is brand power, son who lived there reckons 40% of the crowd would be happy to leave after the Haka,, or 20 minutes into the game, they have heard of this team dressed in Black that play a game most of them don't really know and they do native dance before hand so they go to see it, and a good few buy jerseys etc while there. That is the market Silver Lake are after, not the existing rugby market as this is already taken with local fans.

 

[Adam84]

Well if we have an independent body running the game the will make decisions that are the best for Australian rugby as a whole and growing the sport unlike now when the powers to be have to pass something NSW and QLD are afforded the power to vote it down despite not being the majority

FYA.... ACT, Vic and WA have the same voting bloc and can vote something down despite not not being the majority as well

 

[Dan54]

The wallabies sell the game to Australians super rugby keeps people engaged. The lions will keep coming. When the wallabies were strong the tri nations and super rugby were strong as well

A strong domestic product and a strong wallabies goes hand in hand

Probably, but when the domestic game and Wallabies were strong, it was decided to add more teams (and there was more money to do with successful Wallaby team), and so the domestic game and Wallabies both seemed to go backwards. And we can't even think of going back to before hand, so the need is to make current model work.
That is the reality of it all. The game has seemingly regressed in Australia and whole Saanzar area since Force and Rebels have entered the comp. I not blaming them but it was seemingly handled badly.
And to say again, I not suggesting they shouldn't be there, and the need is to now work with them there, but if anyone thinks the game is stronger in Aus now then it was before 2006, I haven't noticed it.

 

[Rebel man]

Probably, but when the domestic game and Wallabies were strong, it was decided to add more teams (and there was more money to do with successful Wallaby team), and so the domestic game and Wallabies both seemed to go backwards. And we can't even think of going back to before hand, so the need is to make current model work.
That is the reality of it all. The game has seemingly regressed in Australia and whole Saanzar area since Force and Rebels have entered the comp. I not blaming them but it was seemingly handled badly.
And to say again, I not suggesting they shouldn't be there, and the need is to now work with them there, but if anyone thinks the game is stronger in Aus now then it was before 2006, I haven't noticed it.

It’s more to do with player retention the rapid increase of wages putting the cost of running these sides up and the lack of investment in grassroots rugby