The positives & failings from Bledisloe 1 2011

[farva]

I am pissed off we lost. I really wanted to get the Bledisloe Cup back, and I really want to win the tri nations.
I think we have a team that could do both.

But in the lead up to the world cup, I saw a lot of positives that suggest we can beat any team we face.

For one, no opposition will be now think that they will have 6 or 9 easy points off scrum time infringements. We have a pack that could stand up to the best. And we managed to hold our own at the breakdown (a lot of that might be down to the ABs standing off the rucks, but we still did it).
We didnt give it away when we were clearly beaten but came back and won the second half. The old Wallabies would have given up.
Digby is a great ball runner and can do some real damage. With the fleet footed guys around him, he will be a great, useful player.

On the down side, Cooper had an appalling game. If he does that in the knock out stage we are in trouble. He was panicking and throwing passes to people that weren't there. His kicking game was appalling. What the hell were those up and unders all about? What do we do with him?
JOC (James O'Connor) wasnt kicking well. He is usually a great kicker. Last time he was kicking poorly his mate had just died. What would have happened if we were 17-9 as opposed to 17-0? We need to make these kicks if we are going to win big games like this. Dan Carter conversely was spot on.
Our loosies were beaten. Elsom is a liability. He is not the player he was before he left for Europe and there are better players in the extended squad. McCalman works hard and makes tackles. But last night he was missing those tackles and that was an issue. I would like to see Samo tried at 8 - we need to know how he will go there.

Why question is what do we do when Mitchell comes back?
Id almost suggest AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to 12, Ioane to 13 and JOC (James O'Connor) and Mitchell on the wings.
My only concern is that its untried and we dont want to be trialling a new centre combo in a knock out game at the world cup.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Just watched the first 5 minutes of the match again before being called to get the kids out of the tub. The boys were doing very nicely and it was a solid start. The rot started with Coopers pass that was intercepted and the ensuing phase play result in points for the ABs. Not sure if anyone else caught this, but the break made by Piri Weepu down the blindside around the 7th minute that resulted in some point was created by foul play. Take a look at the breakdown directly before Weepus run - Cooper is standing on the blind, beside/behind the ruck (not committed and not in any contact with it but he is completely taken out of play by a loose black fwd. He then held on the ground while Weepu darts up the blindside while Cooper struggle to get up. Blatant professional foul and I can't believe the touchie missed it.

Just watched it a few times, and I think the clean out is fine. If you are within the 1m radius of the ruck area then you risk getting cleaned out. Ali did hold on to his legs which if any of the refs were concentrating on could have been penalised. But let me say this that there is plenty of holding down that goes on at breakdowns even when players are trying to get free. I've seen it many times players trying to "roll away" but are held in by their attacking opposites.

There's also all the holding on that goes and you often see fatties try to chop down the hold. But because they are in the area they can get sucked in....

 

[Jay]

Just watched it a few times, and I think the clean out is fine. If you are within the 1m radius of the ruck area then you risk getting cleaned out. Ali did hold on to his legs which if any of the refs were concentrating on could have been penalised. But let me say this that there is plenty of holding down that goes on at breakdowns even when players are trying to get free. I've seen it many times players trying to "roll away" but are held in by their attacking opposites.

There's also all the holding on that goes and you often see fatties try to chop down the hold. But because they are in the area they can get sucked in....

Theres also the little matter of, rather than it being some defensive colossus - a veritable Ili Tabua or Michael Jones, if you will - who was taken out, it was the guy who is such a poor defender the entire backline defensive structure must be re-written to make up for his inability to tackle....

 

[disco]

Just watched it a few times, and I think the clean out is fine. If you are within the 1m radius of the ruck area then you risk getting cleaned out.

When you are 1 metre back from the last feet then there should be no risk of being cleaned out or held by a player who is off his feet.

 

[qwerty51]

Actually the thing that pissed me off the most is that the scrum was fucking fine with Kepu yet Robbie wouldn't pick him last year and we had to endure some of the most embarrassing moments of Australian rugby last year without him.

 

[Groucho]

Despite the All Blacks general game dominance, some slightly hopeful facts from last nights game are:
- We won the second half 14-13
- They scored 3 tries to 2, no bonus point
- JOC (James O'Connor) had an off night with his boot. If he'd brought them, it would have been 30-23
- All Blacks got the bounce of the ball. A lot of refs would have called their final try back for a knock on
- Our scrum was not the liability that was expected

So, of course there are lots of ifs, and could have beens in this post. But there's enough from last night's game to keep our chins up about.

The fact that the ABs won at home without a bonus point means the Tri-Nations is still wide open.

 

[disco]

The fact that the ABs won at home without a bonus point means the Tri-Nations is still wide open.

We have to win in SA with a bonus point if we want to win the Tri-nations as the AB's for & against probably won't be beaten even if they do drop their next two games.

 

[Jay]

We have to win in SA with a bonus point if we want to win the Tri-nations as the AB's for & against probably won't be beaten even if they do drop their next two games.

Not necessarily, even if both the Wallabies & AB's lose in SA, if the Wallabies picked up a bonus point, they'd only need a win in Brisbane (with no AB bonus point) to win the TN. Or a 5 point win in Brisbane if no one picks up any losing bonus points for the rest of the tournament.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Actually the thing that pissed me off the most is that the scrum was fucking fine with Kepu yet Robbie wouldn't pick him last year and we had to endure some of the most embarrassing moments of Australian rugby last year without him.

I thought Kepu showed considerable improvement in this years S15 with better technique at scrum time and an increased accuracy in the tackle. There were times last year that he struggled with the pace of the game, but it looks now that he can go the 80 at test level.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Kepu has been very good, I think. It's great that we've got some backup for Fat Cat. Alexander has been decent in the 3N games so far too. The tight five overall doesn't look too bad.

 

[ACT Crusader]

I think the individual player talent and ability for the Wallabies is fine in the tight 5. What is lacking from my armchair view is a very hit and miss approach to attacking the breakdown as a "pack". There doesn't seem to be a consistency in cohesion amongst the players.

I know there have been injuries and player changes, but the biggest problem I see is a lack of team work and players working as little units. Urgency at all the collisions is important, but so is timing and knowing what the guy next to you is doing.

I think this has been a concern for quite a few years now (since about 2005).

 

[Thomond78]

Your scrum was munched. They kicked seven bells out of it.

Go back through that game, and watch the scrums. Listen on the Fox feed at the scrum in the AB half in the second half where Alexander gets punched back a metre on the TH, losing any right shoulder - yet it's claimed to be a right shoulder!

Look at how those penalties against Crockett were given - because Alexander bound on the elbow on the engage and drove down. That won't work again. But he had to; and if you look at the scrum in the AB 22, near side, about 30 mins in. By that stage, on more than one scrum, you'd seen the 3 on Alexander's jersey standing proud and clear of the scrum like a honeymooner's dick as he got driven up. The overhead shot on that scrum explains it all. Mealamu and Crockett are already setting up for a step left, and a pincer movement to pop Alexander - which promptly happens to plan. The only way they can do that is if Franks has Kepu tucked up, and can go in on Moore. When one front-row can do that to another, they're well on top.

That's why, in the second half, you saw Franks spitting Kepu backwards and upwards out of the scrum like a squeezed pip; it's because he had him tucked up and looked out, and was turning in so hard and viciously on Moore that Kepu got spat out the side and atood up by the pressure. It's also how they punched over a scrum-length through your scrum on that five-yard scrum before your front-row had to stand up in desperation to give away the penalty instead of the try; how they got go-forward ball at will on the scrum, and you didn't go forward once.

Be thankful it wasn't a NH ref. If it was, they'd have reset that penalty, and got the penalty try.

Going backwards, the TH being popped all the time, the LH being so tucked up their TH can pop him; those are not the marks of a scrum that's holding its own, gentlemen, no matter how hard you, and the Fox commentators, try to tell yourselves so.

 

[drewprint]

Theres also the little matter of, rather than it being some defensive colossus - a veritable Ili Tabua or Michael Jones, if you will - who was taken out, it was the guy who is such a poor defender the entire backline defensive structure must be re-written to make up for his inability to tackle....

Was wondering when some Kiwi would use this as justification. You didn't disappoint.

 

[Shiggins]

To the point

Pack good but sharpe is needed.
Benny out Scotty in at 8

Gits in for AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

Forwards still need to get over the ad line before Cooper gets the ball. This wasn't happening enough. Or the ball needs to be alot quicker.

Scum not bad
Line out held up without sharpe however the all blacks lineout was fucking shit!!! Kev couldn't of hit a beach ball!!

Diggers looks great so does JOC (James O'Connor)
However disappointed in jocs kicking

Simple stuff I Spose.


Go the force!!!!

 

[Gagger]

Haven't watched for the second time, yet. When I do I'll maybe come back with some positives - I'll cling to some of the points others have made in the meantime.

My biggest worry out of that game was the 'top two inches'.

I saw no 'go-to' gameplan when the chips were down, apart from the man 1-out from the ruck, which the Kiwis haven't fallen for in the 4th year in a row. Squeaky more invented his own through the middle of the ruck, and hey presto - it worked. No-one else could follow it. There was NO linespeed or instensity in defence - suicide.

The young stars - most notably Cooper and JOC (James O'Connor) went to mental custard when the chips didn't fall their way. Cooper's decision making was atrocious - we were back in the second half vs the B-team saffas where he kept doubling down and trying something even more outrageous than the last stuff up each play.

Had J'OC's first or second kick gone over, we may well have survived and got a hell of a lot closer. However, once the threat of the ticking scoreboard was gone, the Nuns were home and hosed. The WBs knew this and the heads went down.

I could probably have lived with this scoreline had we not mentally capitulated, but it seems to me we're stuck with the same mental demons that can appear at any time, against any opponent - Scotland, Samoa, England or NZ as examples.

 

[mudskipper]

Quade Cooper was ineffective which left the wallabies missing, Genia didn’t run or box kick just didn’t mix it up enough, loosies were average except for Higginbotham, Pocock was outside All Blacks removed him, Frontrow were good, secondrow came off second best.

 

[antipodean]

When you are 1 metre back from the last feet then there should be no risk of being cleaned out or held by a player who is off his feet.

Once you've been cleaned out, you shouldn't be prevented from rejoining play. The clean out was perfectly legal:

Cooper has his hands on the tackled player.

 

[Jay]

Was wondering when some Kiwi would use this as justification. You didn't disappoint.

As long as Robbie keeps picking a guy who makes Ronan O'Gara look like Henry Honniball, you'll just have to grin and bear it.

 

[Bowside]

I think the individual player talent and ability for the Wallabies is fine in the tight 5. What is lacking from my armchair view is a very hit and miss approach to attacking the breakdown as a "pack". There doesn't seem to be a consistency in cohesion amongst the players.

I know there have been injuries and player changes, but the biggest problem I see is a lack of team work and players working as little units. Urgency at all the collisions is important, but so is timing and knowing what the guy next to you is doing.

I think this has been a concern for quite a few years now (since about 2005).

Couldn't agree more. The tight 5 need to work as a pack more, the reds did in very well and whilst the players on their own were not "world class" when they were working as a pack with genia calling the shots they were pretty much the most effective tight 5 in the competition.

The positives were the lineout and not getting raped at scrum time. The negatives were the lack of leadership and failure to execute any decent gameplan. And the restarts were piss poor as well.

 

[Zeno]

For one, no opposition will be now think that they will have 6 or 9 easy points off scrum time infringements. We have a pack that could stand up to the best.

That was really good to see but I haven't noticed many pundits acknowledging the scrum success. Over time there have been a few people who thought that all Australia needed was a competitive scrum and then we'd be winning Tests. That was never right but I'd expect the scrum-mad contingent to be a bit happier now.

On the down side, Cooper had an appalling game. If he does that in the knock out stage we are in trouble. He was panicking and throwing passes to people that weren't there.

Too harsh, farva. QC (Quade Cooper)'s problem was not his execution, it was the absence of choices he was presented with most times he had the ball. He looked outside and found his backline populated with black shirts. If he looked up for somewhere to kick to he found the NZ backfield stacked. He has a fraction of a second to make decisions and in the meantime his hands and feet are guided by instinct... inevitably the results were messy. It's a credit to the NZ defensive game plan rather than an indictment of him.

JOC (James O'Connor) wasnt kicking well. He is usually a great kicker.

Haven't looked at a replay but memory says his first two kicks went up high and straight then were blown away close to the posts. The third travelled truly but started a fraction off-line and ended up a couple of metres wide. What are you gonna do? Sometimes decent efforts miss.