South African referees want to take action against Bryce Lawrence

[Dai bando]

Aren't scientists supposed to be impartial? This is getting beyond a joke. Get over it South Africa it's just a game

Incendiary stuff - it'll be surprising if he isn't sued for that: easy money for Lawrence since the onus of proof in libel is on the defendant.
You can only be sued for libel if what has been said is not true;D

 

[Groucho]

Incendiary stuff - it'll be surprising if he isn't sued for that: easy money for Lawrence since the onus of proof in libel is on the defendant.
You can only be sued for libel if what has been said is not true;D

That's true, but if Bryce were ever to sue, then Tim Noakes would have to do the proving.

 

[Dai bando]

Perhaps he would rerun the SA, A, Game:lmao:

 

[Mank]

This is beyond ridiculous now. Noakes is quite respected in SA, but surely someone fairly smart should realise you cannot throw serious accusations around with no proof? For goodness sakes, referees have off days just like players.

So frustrating, I really thought that after a decent performance most SA fans could accept that the Boks had just a got a little unlucky, no shame, and move on to looking forward to some new talent coming through and an exciting new time for SA rugby.

To the Aussies I apologise for some of the reactions, but please reign in the nationalistic insults. It's not all of us over-reacting, and also your own countrymen are not immune to doing the same.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Incendiary stuff - it'll be surprising if he isn't sued for that: easy money for Lawrence since the onus of proof in libel is on the defendant.
You can only be sued for libel if what has been said is not true;D

Not quite true - but even if it were: its a big ask to prove that the match was fixed and that Lawrence was the beneficiary of it (which is a pretty clear imputation from the comments) ....christ he must have been nervous about getting paid for most of the 80 minutes.......

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Some South Africans are spending some time in the hall of mirrors, at least:

Vaseline, the “official skincare of the Springboks”. In teenage text speak: WTF? Boks need to be dirty, nasty, repulsive, bloody, rough and rugged with cuts, bruises, contusions and pus-oozing gashes. They need to have chapped lips, blistery skin and wrinkly, wobbly bits. If there’s one thing that the Boks do not need in their arsenal it is soft skin.

The fact that the Springboks have an “official skincare” regime meant we lost the psychological edge and, as The Shrink will tell you, once you lose the psychological edge it doesn’t matter if you have a team full of Bismarcks times by Schalk Squared to the power of Hougaard, it’s game over – finished en klaar.

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/victory-slipped-from-bok-hands-1.1157560

 

[Dai bando]

Not quite true - but even if it were: its a big ask to prove that the match was fixed and that Lawrence was the beneficiary of it (which is a pretty clear imputation from the comments) ....christ he must have been nervous about getting paid for most of the 80 minutes.......

I have'nt actually seen whats been said, my reply was more tongue in cheek than anything else, But I do think that Bryce Lawrence is the worst ref at this WC.

 

[potjiekos]

Some South Africans are spending some time in the hall of mirrors, at least:



http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/victory-slipped-from-bok-hands-1.1157560

It might help to expand your thought process beyond the LITERAL!! Vaseline, one of countless sponsors chose to be assosciated with a successful bok brand. Beyond that, outside of rugby, the boks are normal, well adjusted individuals with families. Can't imagine seeing Victor Matfield taking his daughter to preschool with headgear, mouthguard and strapping..... could you now?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It might help to expand your thought process beyond the LITERAL!! Vaseline, one of countless sponsors chose to be assosciated with a successful bok brand. Beyond that, outside of rugby, the boks are normal, well adjusted individuals with families. Can't imagine seeing Victor Matfield taking his daughter to preschool with headgear, mouthguard and strapping..... could you now?

do you think I think that this journalist went into the or a hall of mirrors - and you suggest I not take things so literally.....mein gott in hemmel (I don't do Afrikaans)
Tell me, is there anyone in South Africa who knows how and when to laugh at themselves (apart form the bloke who wrote this article)?

 

[Groucho]

It might help to expand your thought process beyond the LITERAL!! Vaseline, one of countless sponsors chose to be assosciated with a successful bok brand. Beyond that, outside of rugby, the boks are normal, well adjusted individuals with families. Can't imagine seeing Victor Matfield taking his daughter to preschool with headgear, mouthguard and strapping..... could you now?

potjiekos, Inside Shoulder wasn't being LITERAL. He was being IRONIC.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Let me first say Bryce Lawrence was crap last week, as predicted by this site and countless Aussie journos. However, am finding the moral outrage of Zavos and Growden re: Andre watson a bit hypocrticial. In zavos' case, he is able to use his column to accuse anyone in the world of cheating, whereas if you are an ex international ref, and therefore might know something about reffing, you have no such right.

 

[Gnostic]

What makes Noakes assertions harder for him to prove is the historical record of Bryce's matches. So many have turned into just this sort of game with the free for all at the break down that nobody could ever say he did anything unusual in this match, for him anyway.

I was sympathetic to many of the Saffa complaints but this is rapidly changing to a dismissal of everything as pure whinging. All parties would have been better served by admission that the Refs performance was
1) not up to standard
2) Was no different to what he has often done
3) Why was he selected given fact 2?
4) Given Fact 2 why were these issues accepted and not rectified in a referee regarded (by the selection panel) as test class?

It is pretty harsh on Bryce Lawrence, not only personally but professionally, to pour so much contempt and personal attacks on the man when he was placed in a situation where he would fail, when the causative factors in that failure were readily apparent to most fans and hence should have been apparent to his managers. Direct the hostility where it belongs, the incompetent managers who put him in the position to fail. If Noakes attack had been directed there without the tin foil hat conspiracy theories he would have been able to support his assertions.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What makes Noakes assertions harder for him to prove is the historical record of Bryce's matches. So many have turned into just this sort of game with the free for all at the break down that nobody could ever say he did anything unusual in this match, for him anyway.

I was sympathetic to many of the Saffa complaints but this is rapidly changing to a dismissal of everything as pure whinging. All parties would have been better served by admission that the Refs performance was
1) not up to standard
2) Was no different to what he has often done
3) Why was he selected given fact 2?
4) Given Fact 2 why were these issues accepted and not rectified in a referee regarded (by the selection panel) as test class?

It is pretty harsh on Bryce Lawrence, not only personally but professionally, to pour so much contempt and personal attacks on the man when he was placed in a situation where he would fail, when the causative factors in that failure were readily apparent to most fans and hence should have been apparent to his managers. Direct the hostility where it belongs, the incompetent managers who put him in the position to fail. If Noakes attack had been directed there without the tin foil hat conspiracy theories he would have been able to support his assertions.

Good post gnostic.....
Cardiffblue: there is a difference between Zavos/Growden saying Lord McCaw is a cheat in circumstances where that is part of a #7's job description and saying that a ref cheated. They certainly have different connotations: McCaw cheats and it means he's probably had a good game...a ref cheats (I mean really cheats) and there's a huge problem because it aint in his job description.
I cannot recall Zavos/Growden saying a ref cheated but I stand to be corrected.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Good post gnostic.....
Cardiffblue: there is a difference between Zavos/Growden saying Lord McCaw is a cheat in circumstances where that is part of a #7's job description and saying that a ref cheated. They certainly have different connotations: McCaw cheats and it means he's probably had a good game...a ref cheats (I mean really cheats) and there's a huge problem because it aint in his job description.
I cannot recall Zavos/Growden saying a ref cheated but I stand to be corrected.

Don;t want to trawl through 'the roar' but in Zavos' case can assure you he accused just about everyone involved in IRB of everything.

My point made elsewhere is the same as now. I am sick of the bile heaped on refs durng the game by experts who can hardly be termed impartial. am not at all surprised when this turns to fury and death threats after and I think it is time it stopped.

 

[potjiekos]

do you think I think that this journalist went into the or a hall of mirrors - and you suggest I not take things so literally.....mein gott in hemmel (I don't do Afrikaans)
Tell me, is there anyone in South Africa who knows how and when to laugh at themselves (apart form the bloke who wrote this article)?

Hehehehe!!!

Good one Inside ... ....touche'.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

What I tell parents who whinge about the referees performance at Junior Jarse games, is to do the referee course and prove that they can do better, when they prove that they should then do the referee coach course so they are qualified to help the "useless cheating bastard" to be less useless, less blind, less of a bastard.

Only two have taken me up on the offer, and both of those have become quite good referees, and are much better spectators.

The majority of our referees are volunteers. Without referees we do not have a game. Professional referees are few and far between, and they all started out as village park volunteers.

 

[Blue]

Don't understand what someone like Noakes would look to gain form those comments.

Baffling.

 

[Blue]

do you think I think that this journalist went into the or a hall of mirrors - and you suggest I not take things so literally.....mein gott in hemmel (I don't do Afrikaans)
Tell me, is there anyone in South Africa who knows how and when to laugh at themselves (apart form the bloke who wrote this article)?

Personally I think Vaseline has been an essential requirement over the last four years. How else would the coaching staff have pulled their heads out from their own arses? Solid forward thinking in terms of sponsorship.

PS As I pointed before we would all have been dead if we didn't laugh at ourselves but when it comes to Rugby most Saffers lose their sense of humour. Except when they laughed at PDivvy of course. After hurling abuse of course.

 

[Squeak]

I think Noakes has been sharing PDivvy's media stylist, and possibly his dealer. Truly astonishing.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Don;t want to trawl through 'the roar' but in Zavos' case can assure you he accused just about everyone involved in IRB of everything.

My point made elsewhere is the same as now. I am sick of the bile heaped on refs durng the game by experts who can hardly be termed impartial. am not at all surprised when this turns to fury and death threats after and I think it is time it stopped.

Agree he has criticised IRB and correctly so - but has never said they cheated, as such.