Shute Shield 2012

[Blackers13]

Well let's call it the Shute Handicap then, not the Shute Shield, because that's effectively what it has become.
It has skewed all grade and colt's competitions, as fringe semi finalists in the bottom 6 of each comp beat up the same victims weekly.
Accordingly these teams unfairly gain massive increases in points difference, and 5 point bonus wins to boost their chances to usurp (like that) teams they couldn't go with in the full round of the draw.
So then Ryan09, let's drag everyone down to mediocrity, instead of finding ways to strive for excellence.
People in this thread genuinely want to see clubs like Penrith and Parramatta survive and thrive not perish, but let's teach them to fish, not give them a free feed.
Also if you think the AFL and NFL have seen instances of tanking, standby for what will soon happen in club rugby.

Nice usage of the word usurp!
In every major sporting competition, there is some form of leveller. Salary cap, draft, relegation and promotion, whatever, that ensures, over time, that clubs have an even opportunity to attract and retain the best talent and improve their standings. The previous Shute Shield structure, even with the player points system, means the dominant clubs will continue to dominate and the strugglers continue to struggle UNLESS they happen upon a benevolent sponsor who can inject big cash to enable a struggling club to afford the infrastructure to break out of the rut that keeps them at the bottom of the ladder. While not perfect, the 2012 model of the Shute Shield is going to give a couple of clubs a taste of finals footy, that wouldn't normally come their way. That enables them to generate interest from their local juniors, sponsors and supporters. That's good for Rugby. The heirachy and rusted on traditionalists needn't worry because the premiers will come from the top 4, but this year, a whole other group of Rugby people will actually give a shit past the last round and into the semis. Surely, that is good for Rugby?

 

[The Galah]

Nice usage of the word usurp!
In every major sporting competition, there is some form of leveller. Salary cap, draft, relegation and promotion, whatever, that ensures, over time, that clubs have an even opportunity to attract and retain the best talent and improve their standings. The previous Shute Shield structure, even with the player points system, means the dominant clubs will continue to dominate and the strugglers continue to struggle UNLESS they happen upon a benevolent sponsor who can inject big cash to enable a struggling club to afford the infrastructure to break out of the rut that keeps them at the bottom of the ladder. While not perfect, the 2012 model of the Shute Shield is going to give a couple of clubs a taste of finals footy, that wouldn't normally come their way. That enables them to generate interest from their local juniors, sponsors and supporters. That's good for Rugby. The heirachy and rusted on traditionalists needn't worry because the premiers will come from the top 4, but this year, a whole other group of Rugby people will actually give a shit past the last round and into the semis. Surely, that is good for Rugby?

Ryan09 what's stale about a competition that sees Randwick struggling, Gordon a bastion of privilege on the bones of its backside and your Club winning more than its share and well in the mix. Hey welcome to the winners circle for a change . Next you'll be invoking Bruce Springstein or Jimmy Barnes. At least one of the current top 4 has no spare cash even though they are traditionally regarded as silvertails.

Sure Uni winning the Club Championship at a canter and plundering others' talent needs to be addressed but that is part of the current wider debate about the moribund state of NSW rugby administration and the orthodoxy surrounding the only way to success for players being elite school rep selection /Uni /Waratahs (read hierachy or rusted on traditionalists)......Parramatta deserve every success that comes their way but if Easts miss out on finals football to Wests or Warringah there has been a grave injustice.

 

[It is what it is]

Nice usage of the word usurp!
In every major sporting competition, there is some form of leveller. Salary cap, draft, relegation and promotion, whatever, that ensures, over time, that clubs have an even opportunity to attract and retain the best talent and improve their standings. The previous Shute Shield structure, even with the player points system, means the dominant clubs will continue to dominate and the strugglers continue to struggle UNLESS they happen upon a benevolent sponsor who can inject big cash to enable a struggling club to afford the infrastructure to break out of the rut that keeps them at the bottom of the ladder. While not perfect, the 2012 model of the Shute Shield is going to give a couple of clubs a taste of finals footy, that wouldn't normally come their way. That enables them to generate interest from their local juniors, sponsors and supporters. That's good for Rugby. The heirachy and rusted on traditionalists needn't worry because the premiers will come from the top 4, but this year, a whole other group of Rugby people will actually give a shit past the last round and into the semis. Surely, that is good for Rugby?

What other competition in any sport elsewhere has such a ludicrous system?
I'm all for improving the game and clubs but there's got to be another way.

 

[It is what it is]

Ryan09 what's stale about a competition that sees Randwick struggling, Gordon a bastion of privilege on the bones of its backside and your Club winning more than its share and well in the mix. Hey welcome to the winners circle for a change . Next you'll be invoking Bruce Springstein or Jimmy Barnes. At least one of the current top 4 has no spare cash even though they are traditionally regarded as silvertails.

Sure Uni winning the Club Championship at a canter and plundering others' talent needs to be addressed but that is part of the current wider debate about the moribund state of NSW rugby administration and the orthodoxy surrounding the only way to success for players being elite school rep selection /Uni /Waratahs (read hierachy or rusted on traditionalists)..Parramatta deserve every success that comes their way but if Easts miss out on finals football to Wests or Warringah there has been a grave injustice.

You've missed the point, and it doesn't relate to 'my club'.
As you point out Easts predicament in 1st Grade, you have ignored the point that this effects another 6 competitions across lower grades and Colts.
How many other "injustices" are too many?
It's not just about teams missing the semi's, it's also about team's ranking in the semi's and it impacts more everyday amateur players than professionals.

 

[Blackers13]

What other competition in any sport elsewhere has such a ludicrous system?
I'm all for improving the game and clubs but there's got to be another way.

I believe Hungarian otter racing employ a slighly more obtuse methodology, however their competition administration is an arrogant oligarchy with no concern for the advancement of their sport. Hang on....

 

[Blackers13]

Ryan09 what's stale about a competition that sees Randwick struggling, Gordon a bastion of privilege on the bones of its backside and your Club winning more than its share and well in the mix. Hey welcome to the winners circle for a change . Next you'll be invoking Bruce Springstein or Jimmy Barnes. At least one of the current top 4 has no spare cash even though they are traditionally regarded as silvertails.

Sure Uni winning the Club Championship at a canter and plundering others' talent needs to be addressed but that is part of the current wider debate about the moribund state of NSW rugby administration and the orthodoxy surrounding the only way to success for players being elite school rep selection /Uni /Waratahs (read hierachy or rusted on traditionalists)..Parramatta deserve every success that comes their way but if Easts miss out on finals football to Wests or Warringah there has been a grave injustice.

Agree with a lot of your points, however am more likely to invoke Dave Grohl.

 

[Lindommer]

Hungarian otter racing? How do I get on this intriguing sport?

 

[the coach]

My points were:
(1) I'd prefer to see a full home and away season
(2) there are too many teams in the playoffs
(3) the playoffs should be contested by the teams who have performed best against the other teams over the season

Whilst I completely agree with the concern that the Shute Shield has been dominated by 3-4 teams (and I'm a Randwick supporter) I don't believe the sort of manipulation that's occurred this year is the answer. The people who put their hands up to run our competitions (ie NSWRU and SRU) need to find a better solution than this. I'm pleased that Parramatta and West Harbour have a chance to participate in the playoffs, but I'm not happy about the method used to get them there. In my opinion West Harbour have had the players for several years to be more successful than they have been. Parramatta will grow in strength as they have a great catchment area to gather players from, they have a good coach, are winning games and playing attractive rugby, not because they made the playoffs this year. Until we have a system that ensures the talent is more evenly spread the comp will continue to be won by only a few teams regardless of which teams make the playoffs. This is the problem that needs to be fixed.

 

[Slim 293]

We could beat 'em all

NORTHERN BEACHES TEAM WOULD DO BETTER THAN THE WARATAHS

THE failure of the Waratahs this season calls for a big shake-up at NSW Rugby.

And Blindside is starting a campaign for a new team called God's Country based on the great rugby stronghold on the northern beaches to proudly represent our state in 2013.

How is this for a line-up: 15 Mark Gerrard (c) (Rats and Rebels), 14 Tom Kingston (Manly Roos and Waratahs), 13 Andrew Smith (Marlins and Brumbies), 12 Pat McCabe (Rats and Brumbies), 11 Robbie Coleman (Marlins and Brumbies), 10 Sam Lane (Marlins and Reds), 9 Brett Sheehan (Rats and Force) 8 Cliffy Palu (Marlins and Waratahs), 7 Michael Hooper (Marlins and Brumbies), 6 Scott Fardy (Rats and Brumbies), 5 Hugh Pyle (Rats and Rebels) 4 Cadeyrn Neville (Marlins and Rebels), 3 Jono Owen (Marlins and Rebels), 2 Josh Mann-Rea (Marlins and Waratahs), 1 Pek Cowan (Rats and Force). Reserves: 16 Josh Holmes (Rats and Force), 17 Beau Robinson (Rats and Reds), 18 Luke Holmes (Rats and Rebels), 19 Elvis Taione (Marlins and Force), 20 Salesi Manu (Rats and Force), 21 Eddie Aholelei (Marlins and Rebels), 22 George Smith (Marlins and Suntory)

Coaches: Tim Lane and Sam Harris.

The team, whose colours will be red, blue, green and white, would finish in the play-offs for sure. ``That's not a bad side is it,'' God's Country co-coach Lane said.

http://origin.manly-daily.whereilive.com.au/sport/story/blindside-we-could-beat-waratahs/

I'll let the other two Brumbies players (not incl. Hooper) slide.......

 

[I like to watch]

It's the Manly Daily, hardly a journalistic benchmark.
I'm surprised they didn't claim any player who has had a beer at the Steyne, or a feed at Ribs and Rumps.
Just another page filler,which is a bit more interesting than a profile on an emerging 14 yo superstar who scored 2 goals in the local C grade comp, that they normally do.

 

[It is what it is]

Hungarian otter racing? How do I get on this intriguing sport?

I think Ryan09 might be thinking of Beaver Hunting, not Otter Racing.

 

[Knuckles]

My points were:
(1) I'd prefer to see a full home and away season
(2) there are too many teams in the playoffs
(3) the playoffs should be contested by the teams who have performed best against the other teams over the season

Whilst I completely agree with the concern that the Shute Shield has been dominated by 3-4 teams (and I'm a Randwick supporter) I don't believe the sort of manipulation that's occurred this year is the answer. The people who put their hands up to run our competitions (ie NSWRU and SRU) need to find a better solution than this. I'm pleased that Parramatta and West Harbour have a chance to participate in the playoffs, but I'm not happy about the method used to get them there. In my opinion West Harbour have had the players for several years to be more successful than they have been. Parramatta will grow in strength as they have a great catchment area to gather players from, they have a good coach, are winning games and playing attractive rugby, not because they made the playoffs this year. Until we have a system that ensures the talent is more evenly spread the comp will continue to be won by only a few teams regardless of which teams make the playoffs. This is the problem that needs to be fixed.

I absolutely love the comment highlighted above Coach......... Manipulation, interesting choice of words.

Here's some facts that you may not be aware of.

• The ARU asked the SRU to shorten the season.
• The top 6/bottom 6 structure that is in place for 2012, was in fact, a Randwick proposal.
• The proposal was supported by all clubs who attended the meeting to put the recommendation to SRU
• The only club who did not attend was my club, Manly.

But let's continue with the manipulation theory...........

Can you elaborate on who you are referring to as the manipulators. I would be very interested to hear your theory.
As for Parramatta and West Harbour having a chance to participate in play offs, I agree, its fantastic. But dare I say it, in Parramatta's case, they are currently 6th and would have made the playoffs under 2011's structure anyway. It would be Easts and West Harbour who would miss it if the top 6 was determined right this very minute.

I have to say, I am a supporter of the structure for this year. I am probably the only person in my club who would say that, but what they hey, I like it. And what do I like best about it? I like the fact that the games are all reasonably tight this time of the year. It will be interesting to see how tomorrow goes, particularly as Uni have Jeremy Tilse, Ben McCalman, Dave Dennis, Tim Davidson, Nic Stirzaker, Tom Carter, Mitch Inman and Tom Kingston all starting together for the first time this year. But there has not been any of the 90-10 floggings this year that clubs have been subjected too in the past. And thats great as far as I'm concerned. It shows that the structure is even and must be working.

What I think we as the rugby public need to focus on is the spreading of the talent. The beauty of the NRL is that each year, up to 6 or so sides are a genuine chance of winning the comp, and in any match, any side can win. The Shute Shield needs to get to that sort of level playing field I believe. Because then, and only then, will the Shute Shield be the premier club rugby competition in the country

 

[Blackers13]

I absolutely love the comment highlighted above Coach... Manipulation, interesting choice of words.

Here's some facts that you may not be aware of.

• The ARU asked the SRU to shorten the season.
• The top 6/bottom 6 structure that is in place for 2012, was in fact, a Randwick proposal.
• The proposal was supported by all clubs who attended the meeting to put the recommendation to SRU
• The only club who did not attend was my club, Manly.

But let's continue with the manipulation theory.....


Can you elaborate on who you are referring to as the manipulators. I would be very interested to hear your theory.
As for Parramatta and West Harbour having a chance to participate in play offs, I agree, its fantastic. But dare I say it, in Parramatta's case, they are currently 6th and would have made the playoffs under 2011's structure anyway. It would be Easts and West Harbour who would miss it if the top 6 was determined right this very minute.

I have to say, I am a supporter of the structure for this year. I am probably the only person in my club who would say that, but what they hey, I like it. And what do I like best about it? I like the fact that the games are all reasonably tight this time of the year. It will be interesting to see how tomorrow goes, particularly as Uni have Jeremy Tilse, Ben McCalman, Dave Dennis, Tim Davidson, Nic Stirzaker, Tom Carter, Mitch Inman and Tom Kingston all starting together for the first time this year. But there has not been any of the 90-10 floggings this year that clubs have been subjected too in the past. And thats great as far as I'm concerned. It shows that the structure is even and must be working.

What I think we as the rugby public need to focus on is the spreading of the talent. The beauty of the NRL is that each year, up to 6 or so sides are a genuine chance of winning the comp, and in any match, any side can win. The Shute Shield needs to get to that sort of level playing field I believe. Because then, and only then, will the Shute Shield be the premier club rugby competition in the country

Completely agree Knuckles, well said.

 

[Dave Beat]

I absolutely love the comment highlighted above Coach... Manipulation, interesting choice of words.

Here's some facts that you may not be aware of.

• The ARU asked the SRU to shorten the season.
• The top 6/bottom 6 structure that is in place for 2012, was in fact, a Randwick proposal.
• The proposal was supported by all clubs who attended the meeting to put the recommendation to SRU
• The only club who did not attend was my club, Manly.

But let's continue with the manipulation theory.....


Can you elaborate on who you are referring to as the manipulators. I would be very interested to hear your theory.
As for Parramatta and West Harbour having a chance to participate in play offs, I agree, its fantastic. But dare I say it, in Parramatta's case, they are currently 6th and would have made the playoffs under 2011's structure anyway. It would be Easts and West Harbour who would miss it if the top 6 was determined right this very minute.

I have to say, I am a supporter of the structure for this year. I am probably the only person in my club who would say that, but what they hey, I like it. And what do I like best about it? I like the fact that the games are all reasonably tight this time of the year. It will be interesting to see how tomorrow goes, particularly as Uni have Jeremy Tilse, Ben McCalman, Dave Dennis, Tim Davidson, Nic Stirzaker, Tom Carter, Mitch Inman and Tom Kingston all starting together for the first time this year. But there has not been any of the 90-10 floggings this year that clubs have been subjected too in the past. And thats great as far as I'm concerned. It shows that the structure is even and must be working.

What I think we as the rugby public need to focus on is the spreading of the talent. The beauty of the NRL is that each year, up to 6 or so sides are a genuine chance of winning the comp, and in any match, any side can win. The Shute Shield needs to get to that sort of level playing field I believe. Because then, and only then, will the Shute Shield be the premier club rugby competition in the country

Knuckles, I to have enjoyed the games since the split - last week was great, and we were unlucky in 2's and 3's as they could have gone either way.
I wish we didnt have to wait until mid April before it started.
Spreading the talent, but lets not lose home grown talent - Kingston is an example of that.
Long waits between visits to the village green - Nths will be a tuff game I hope they are switched on.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Scores and Match reports from today anyone.

 

[qwerty51]

Eastwood 13-12 Uni
Souths 42-31 Easts

3rd game in a row Uni have been outclassed in the 2nd half..

 

[wamberal]

Eastwood 13-12 Uni
Souths 42-31 Easts

3rd game in a row Uni have been outclassed in the 2nd half..

Really looking forward to the replay (3.30 am Tuesday, for people outside NSW).

 

[fatprop]

Eastwood 13-12 Uni
Souths 42-31 Easts

3rd game in a row Uni have been outclassed in the 2nd half..

I think Uni should look at their fitness regime

 

[Tahboy]

Knuckles are you saying that Parramatta would have made the top 6 if all clubs had to play everyone twice?
They had the arm chair ride 2nd round where Easts have had to play the top sides. Where was Easts after the 1st round and where was Parramatta after the 1st round?
Parramatta are benefitting from a poor club championship and Easts are being punished for having a much stronger club championship
How can that be a good thing. It's the same with Easts 1st colts who look like missing the top 8 and Gordon getting in who have played the weaker sides.
If they keep this comp I would be hoping my club plays dead 1st round and comes home 2nd round.
The comp has too go to 2 full rounds and start 6 weeks earlier than they did this year with no spare weekends but have a top 8 as this keeps interest longer for the teams and by starting earlier it allows players to finish there season then go overseas as against leaving before the season finishes.

 

[wamberal]

I think Uni should look at their fitness regime

Haw, haw, haw.