Salary cap shenanigans

[Karl]

I'm not convinced that a salary cap is the be all and end all of solvency management. Why should it be. If a team has higher revenues because they manage themselves well, why should they be restricted in terms of what proportion they decide to pay players? Make them put forward an operational financial plan on a yearly basis that demonstrates an ability to trade solvently for the duration of all current contracts.

Either that or make the requirements/system universal across the competition so it applies to all conferences and teams. And there should be some linkage of SANZAR Super Rugby revenues to top-up payments to players as well so that they share in the success of the competition, and they should be applied to all players equally.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm not convinced that a salary cap is the be all and end all of solvency management. Why should it be. If a team has higher revenues because they manage themselves well, why should they be restricted in terms of what proportion they decide to pay players?

On that basis, why shouldn't the ARU say "well, the Reds have loads of members in a rugby state and can raise a lot of their own revenue so we'll give them less money than we give to the Force and Rebels."

Either that or make the requirements/system universal across the competition so it applies to all conferences and teams. And there should be some linkage of SANZAR Super Rugby revenues to top-up payments to players as well so that they share in the success of the competition, and they should be applied to all players equally.

The RUPA has an enterprise bargaining agreement which does specify a percentage of revenue that the players receive.

 

[It is what it is]

I'm not convinced that a salary cap is the be all and end all of solvency management. Why should it be. If a team has higher revenues because they manage themselves well, why should they be restricted in terms of what proportion they decide to pay players? Make them put forward an operational financial plan on a yearly basis that demonstrates an ability to trade solvently for the duration of all current contracts.

Either that or make the requirements/system universal across the competition so it applies to all conferences and teams. And there should be some linkage of SANZAR Super Rugby revenues to top-up payments to players as well so that they share in the success of the competition, and they should be applied to all players equally.

Karl, I think it's a bit like people who become very rich quickly and then lose the lot......they found it easy to make the 1st Million $, but instead of setting their next sights on $2 Million, they go for $100 Million and it all comes undone.
Salary Caps save clubs from themselves, as few clubs plan for falling attendances, injuries to major stars, poor results or player scandals.
Manchester United and Liverpool clubs are 2 examples of clubs whose finances went out of control, despite massive revenues.

 

[Karl]

On that basis, why shouldn't the ARU say "well, the Reds have loads of members in a rugby state and can raise a lot of their own revenue so we'll give them less money than we give to the Force and Rebels."



The RUPA has an enterprise bargaining agreement which does specify a percentage of revenue that the players receive.

First bit - because that defeats the purpose. If the ARU want to seed new territories and expand our involvement in the SuperRugby comp, it should not be at the expense of established franchises.

Second bit - good

 

[Karl]

Karl, I think it's a bit like people who become very rich quickly and then lose the lot..they found it easy to make the 1st Million $, but instead of setting their next sights on $2 Million, they go for $100 Million and it all comes undone.
Salary Caps save clubs from themselves, as few clubs plan for falling attendances, injuries to major stars, poor results or player scandals.
Manchester United and Liverpool clubs are 2 examples of clubs whose finances went out of control, despite massive revenues.

I see that, hence the emphasis on solvency and fiscal responsibility, as opposed to using the salary cap as a way to try to engineer an outcome that comes down to a lot more than just player salaries.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yes, but how do the ARU grow the new franchises if they allow a system that doesn't let them compete with the established franchises?

If you let the everyone spend as much money as they want, the established franchises will be able to spend more on players and theoretically achieve better results. They then can afford to spend even more money and the newer franchises from non rugby cities will never be able to compete.

I would be less in favour of a salary cap if we had five rugby cities but we don't. Something has to be done to create a level playing field.

 

[Richo]

I would be more in favour of a salary cap if it applied across SANZAR, but that will never be the case. I would be less in favour of one if the franchises had shown more ability to manage their own finances, but they haven't.

 

[TOCC]

The Salary Cap is an effective means of ensuring that talent is dispersed relatively evenly and it prevents clubs from spending beyond their means... People can argue the merit's of it all they want, but it is practical and it is effective.

We can argue the merits of whether the salary cap is fair since Australian teams compete against teams from other countries which dont have such caps, however i dont think that is truly the case. QLD have highlighted that they were able to keep the bulk of their premiership squad together the past 2 years, they lost higginbotham to the Rebels but thats been the only notable loss since 2010 when Byrnes and Weeks left. Likewise the Tahs, yes they lost Beale to the Rebels but they have been able to keep the largest representation of Wallabies within their squad and the Brumbies lost no player this year.

The concerning factor at this time is the Force, arguably they should have had significant cash to throw at possible recruits but attracted no one of note for 2013, there are however some discrepancies in the fact that they have not had a coach for much of the season and other off-field issues have impeded their ability to attract players.

 

[Linebacker_41]

The Salary Cap is an effective means of ensuring that talent is dispersed relatively evenly and it prevents clubs from spending beyond their means. People can argue the merit's of it all they want, but it is practical and it is effective.

I think that the recruiting patterns of 2012 and 2013 season has not resulted in equalisation of the Australian rugby talent - as I have mentioned before the top ups negate the salary cap. As such it is the quality of the performance program that is determining where the bulk of the talent goes. That is why for the next few years the Reds and the Brumbies will remain the strongest of the 5 franchises.

Unless the ARU provides more money to the provinces and pays zero top ups and dramatically increases the salary cap ceiling then players will sacrifice the $30-$40k difference in pay. Let's face it if they make the Wallabies then they only need a handful of tests and they have made that money back.

QLD have highlighted that they were able to keep the bulk of their premiership squad together the past 2 years, they lost higginbotham to the Rebels but thats been the only notable loss since 2010 when Byrnes and Weeks left. Likewise the Tahs, yes they lost Beale to the Rebels but they have been able to keep the largest representation of Wallabies within their squad and the Brumbies lost no player this year.

The Reds have lost very little mainly due to their program which is based on McKenzie and S&C coach Damian Marsh, the same can be said for the Brumbies who are based on White and Dean Benton.

From a tahs perspective I would argue that if they had these problems in the media 4 months ago they would not have got Hooper and I daresay anyone of note coming off-contract this year would be looking elsewhere.

 

[Braveheart81]

The Rebels were a bit hamstrung this season by injuries to O'Connor and Beale for varying lengths of the season. Higginbotham adds another Wallaby star to their lineup next season.

I think The Force have been left out in the cold a bit by losing out on Genia and losing Pocock so late in the piece. They presumably have plenty of money to spend but no one to spend it on. You'd assume that they will recruit strongly during 2013 for 2014 and sign up a few real stars. They surely have the money to do so.

 

[Slim 293]

I support the salary cap, however I would like to see something introduced similar to the "Larry Bird exception" in the NBA so that players who have been with the club for a long time without playing for another team can be exempt.......

 

[Richo]

Or partially exempt. For example, the first $250k count against the cap but nothing after that. They would need to be players with something like 5+ years with the club, IMO.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Or partially exempt. For example, the first $250k count against the cap but nothing after that. They would need to be players with something like 5+ years with the club, IMO.

^^^... and to digress slightly, this loyalty bonus is the basis of the allegations of points system "rorting" at Sydney Uni.

IIRC the points system allows for discount based on years loyalty at the club.

Uni are just more clever in how and when they sign the young'uns up and how they retain their players, so as to maximise their loyalty discounts.

Like it or not, Uni are operating well within the rules, and IIRC the only mob to fall foul of the points system have been Wicks 1st Grade colts. So much for Uni "cheating" the system.

While this is a strength of the Sydney Uni system, it is also a weakness as the retained players form a road block to up and coming superstars presenting an opportunity for other clubs to exploit as they can offer first grade slots, and the exposure and experience that that offers before Uni can.

Anyone on this thread supoprting a salary cap loyalty bonus for the Tahs, but not a points system loyalty bonus for Sydney Uni (and others) in Shute Shield is a hypocrite.

Back to Super Rugby Salary Cap talk.

 

[rugbyisfun]

Gee. The ARU are really acting swiftly on this as previous stated in past press pieces .....

 

[qwerty51]

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rug...a-bead-on-the-cap-rorters-20120809-23wzj.html

Well that just about confirms it's the Tahs. I've done some detective work and the player whose head is PdV is McKibbin. The reference to finals games at the ground would also fit well with Southern Districts. So whoever first mentioned Easts and Souths - well done.

 

[Paradox]

I hope the ATO takes down these tax dodgers..

 

[Braveheart81]

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rug...a-bead-on-the-cap-rorters-20120809-23wzj.html

Well that just about confirms it's the Tahs. I've done some detective work and the player whose head is PdV is McKibbin. The reference to finals games at the ground would also fit well with Southern Districts. So whoever first mentioned Easts and Souths - well done.

Well picked.

 

[waratahjesus]

If it is McKibbon I hope the opportunity is taken to release him for his contract ASAP.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If it is McKibbon I hope the opportunity is taken to release him for his contract ASAP.

How would it give the Tahs the right to terminate his contract?

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rug...a-bead-on-the-cap-rorters-20120809-23wzj.html

Well that just about confirms it's the Tahs. I've done some detective work and the player whose head is PdV is McKibbin. The reference to finals games at the ground would also fit well with Southern Districts. So whoever first mentioned Easts and Souths - well done.

Thank you!

 

[waratahjesus]

How would it give the Tahs the right to terminate his contract?
!

It not. I just think his new 3 year deal based on goal kicking and average game play this year was an overreaction to his abilility.