RWC Wallabies v USA - 23 September

[Bowside]

My only reservation about playing barnes and cooper together is that they had many years at the reds together and then a couple apart and Cooper has really come on as a player with barnes absent. I know it may be due to how the pack performed but Barnes hasn't shown good consistent form for nearly 2 years. Granted he's often injured but I don't think he is going to come in and magically fix the balance of our backline.

Its too late now but I think deans steadfast refusal to trial JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 is really going to prove costly. It may not have been a success and the combination with cooper may not have developed, but we will never know because he never tried it. Instead he chose to pick an out of form matt giteau, followed by picking a debutante in a bledisode decider against the all blacks, before finally giving barnes a run in the last game of the season. Then not selecting any of them in a world cup year, instead going for a bloke that played a 'few' games at 12 for the team that came 13th in the competition.

Now after some initial success other teams have done their homework and he's been somewhat found-out at test level against what many would describe as one of the 'lesser' inside centres in world rugby.

madness

 

[high tower]

Deans will continue as per program and give the dirt trackers a run this week, he will rest all those who have played all tri nations and or the last 3 games if possible. Barnes will not play in the quarters unless there is an injury. Mitchell, Ionae and palu the only guys who might come into starting team from the first two games of the wc.

Maafua, Faainga/TPN,slipper
sharpe simmons
higgers palu, mccalman
burgess
barnes
faainga horne
mitchell phipps
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)


resting or on bench with lilmited game time.
kepu mooore
vickerman horwill
elsom pocock samo
genia
cooper
mccabe beale

 

[reman]

I'm banging my head against a brick wall. Why, because almost every post in this thread is about how we should "fix" the back line. Because if time magically reversed itself and we could play Ireland again tinkering with the back line would somehow magically allow us to win?!?!

Get real people, if we get the same forward performance again not even the best backline in the world will win it.

 

[waratahjesus]

I'm banging my head against a brick wall. Why, because almost every post in this thread is about how we should "fix" the back line. Because if time magically reversed itself and we could play Ireland again tinkering with the back line would somehow magically allow us to win?!?!

Get real people, if we get the same forward performance again not even the best backline in the world will win it.

i called for the forwards to turn up, but other than the injured players coming back and the bench being used we dont have options there.

the reds suffered a couple of losses this year when there forwards didnt turn up and in both games, cooper went to shit in a handbag and didnt recover, that happened again on saturday night and is why i want Barnes back. As has been said, He offers a "foil" "ying" "yang" "Balls" "cock" whatever you want to call it. We assisted the Irish in winning the game through poor game management and dicision making across the park, we lack leadership and authority and we should have listened to Campo, who after the match was chatting with Allan Gaffney and Lez Kiss and remarking on how no one at home listened to him, well, to F'n late now.

 

[cyclopath]

I'm banging my head against a brick wall. Why, because almost every post in this thread is about how we should "fix" the back line. Because if time magically reversed itself and we could play Ireland again tinkering with the back line would somehow magically allow us to win?!?!

Get real people, if we get the same forward performance again not even the best backline in the world will win it.

Actually only 18 posts have specifically been about the backs, about 30%, which given the overall ineptitude of the night, would seem fair. The rest are about the general problems, or whole team selections / discussions. Or the forwards.

 

[biggsy]

After last game Deans should be the one rested for his shit house performance on interchanging... I've lost a great deal of respect for him...He has done this on a few times now and lost, except the last tri nation game and they won that.

Play the strongest team and get a bonus point and smash the yanks and i mean smash them. And for fuck sake inter change 25-20 not 8min, Tatafu Polota-Nau forgot how to hook by the end of the game....

Better play better this week because i'm still bitter about that lose and the 2 Kiwis that work for me are about to lose there job if they dont neck up.

 

[tragic]

We need to play our strongest side (whatever this is) vs the Yanks as we need a 4 try bonus point in case we get lucky and ireland lose to italy. As it stands we have one BP and they dont. If they lose to italy by less than 7 points and pick up a bonus point against russia we need a BP against Russia and USA to top the pool.
I'd be picking the best I had available against the USA in case Ireland bottle it against the italians.

 

[Jnor]

Agree tragic but we shouldn't really have to pick our best team to get BPs against the US and Russia, any line-up should do it.

Mind you, I thought we'd beat Samoa. And Ireland.

 

[Lee Grant]

From AAP

*****

Coach Robbie Deans must sort through the wreckage and identify 22 fit and able bodies capable of outclassing USA as the Wallabies walk the Rugby World Cup 2011 finals tightrope on Friday night.

Of Australia's 30-man squad in New Zealand, only 22 were able to complete full training duties on Monday due to the bruising weekend loss to Ireland and a nasty virus that swept through the camp.

Already reduced to five weeks of sudden-death football, the Wallabies breathed a big sigh of relief after an MRI scan cleared skipper James Horwill of a shoulder injury that would have further undermined Australia's flagging Rugby World Cup campaign.

But Horwill, lock Dan Vickerman, centre Pat McCabe and winger James O'Connor were all too sore to train, while flanker David Pocock only managed some light run-throughs as he continues to battle the back discomfort that sidelined him from the Ireland encounter.

Recovering hooker Stephen Moore, another match-day scratching with a stomach bug, and ailing centre Anthony Fainga'a, who was too sick to travel to Wellington on Sunday with teammates, also sat out the session.

Although star winger Digby Ioane (broken thumb) is the only squad member definitely unavailable for selection, Deans and selectors Jim Williams and David Nucifora still have an arduous job deciding on a starting XV and seven-man bench.

With no room for further slip-ups, it is a delicate balancing act for the Wallabies brains trust.

Deans needs to give his travelling reserves, including Drew Mitchell, Rob Horne, Berrick Barnes, Luke Burgess, Wycliff Palu, Scott Higginbotham and Nathan Sharpe, some game time in case they're required for major roles later in the tournament.

But messing too much with a largely settled combination that secured the Tri Nations title and beat Italy in Australia's opening pool game before falling to Ireland is fraught with danger.

USA are no mugs, as they showed in a hard-fought 22-10 loss to Ireland and subsequent defeat of Russia.

"They're a very passionate side," said Wallabies hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau.

"Just looking at a few clips, they can definitely upset sides by playing the general game rather than the set piece.

"Saturday was definitely a wake-up and any side (we play) would get a lift from that result."

With Fainga'a ill and McCabe due a rest after starting in all seven of Australia's Tests in 2011, Deans must be tempted to reunite the formidable backline that accounted for the All Blacks in Hong Kong in October.

That would involve drafting in Barnes to start at inside centre, partnering Adam Ashley-Cooper in the midfield, and giving the Wallabies a second tactical kicker alongside five-eighth Quade Cooper, something they sorely missed against Ireland.

With Ashley-Cooper moving to outside centre, Drew Mitchell is in line for a recall to the left wing.

Securing victory over USA with most of his backline big guns on deck would allow Deans to rest attacking generals Cooper and halfback Will Genia from Australia's final pool game against lowly Russia in Nelson.

Picking a forward pack is less straightforward, due to the uncertainty surrounding Pocock and Australia's generally poor back row and scrum showing against Ireland.

If Pocock is again out, selectors have no alternative than to retain Ben McCalman at openside flanker because they didn't bring a specialist No.7 back-up to the tournament.

But reserve backrowers Palu and Higginbotham need time on the park, as do second-rowers Sharpe and Rob Simmons, who may well get their chance if Horwill and Vickerman need more time to recover.

Scrummaging specialist Salesi Ma'afu is pushing hard for a start in the front row, especially after Australia conceded five penalties for repeatedly collapsing the set piece at Eden Park.

 

[Richo]

Well, since the failure of the forwards was not the work of individuals but of the collective it seems like fiddling with the selections there is meaningless. If we could just insert some steel in the spines of the ones we've got I'd be happy.

 

[light]

Interesting that so many people are divided on who should be playing in this match. The amount of people suggesting we should persevere with the same team that lost to Ireland seems kind of absurd to me, if the Irish can shut us down, imagine what the Boks and Blecks will do..not to mention the Poms.

The Irish played a very English style of rugby and wether or not they had assistance from the referee is beside the point. They physically outplayed us and I have little doubt the English wouldn't have done the same. They showed the world how to beat our current XV, there is very little else we can do this late other than rolling the dice on what we have. There is little point wishing we had taken another openside, or another playmaker like Giteau. Its too late. Make the most of what we have, those players selected in the squad should all get a go if those above them aren't performing.

Quite frankly, we should look at the positives of last weekend. Those being that we determined how far our reserves are off our starting team..unfortunately the answer was: A LONG WAY.

IMO the only certainties for a potential quarter final match at this point would be: Moore, Horwill, Pocock, Genia, Cooper, O'Connor and Beale.

Our front three were demolished last weekend, and I don't think referee's will be scared to penalise us for similar offences in the latter stages of the tournament. Slipper needs to be starting, his partner is still undetermined, Alexander would have to be the favourite. TPN proved that he is a long way off his form of 2009, luckily Moore has been stellar and should come back relatively fresh from a short break.

Locks were also dissapointing. Vickerman's ill-discipline annoys me and while he might have had a blinder in the tri-nations the SH referee's are picking him up on everything. His constant backchat annoys me and we can't afford it against straight shooters such as Steyn. Horwill had probably his worst game this year and was offside alot, he has form however and should be persisted with. Simmons whilst trying hard was relatively ineffective. Sharpe needs to get a run as he is our most experienced forward we have taken and his form towards the end of the S15 was excellent. Of course he comes with question marks over his contributions to the scrum and we lose the physicality of Vickerman.

Backrow was below-par too. Pocock is desperately needed back and it's sad to think that without him we are fucked. Plain and Simple. Rocky wasn't where he needs to be or where he has shown potential to be. For mine, he is still capable of pulling out great performances but we cannot wait forever and Higgenbotham is chomping at his heels. Samo has been missing the past two games, something you cannot afford to have from your number 8. Palu needs game-time, no one really knows where he is at. I doubt McCalman will be starting at 8 anytime soon after the Samoa disaster

I could go through the backline too but to be honest we need to correct our forward pack to stand any chance against the big guns. This means giving our reserves a go and allowing them the ability to prove themselves.

Would like to see the following forward pack for the USA game.
1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Sharpe
5. Simmons
6. Higgenbotham
7. Pocock
8. Palu

It's time to roll the dice Robbie, you brought 30 players for a reason. PLEASE USE THEM!

 

[Slim 293]

Interesting that so many people are divided on who should be playing in this match. The amount of people suggesting we should persevere with the same team that lost to Ireland seems kind of absurd to me, if the Irish can shut us down, imagine what the Boks and Blecks will do..not to mention the Poms.

So the personnel that were good enough to beat the Boks twice, and the All Blacks to win the Tri Nations, that lost to the Irish, won't be good enough to beat the Boks or the All Blacks?

Right...

 

[waratahjesus]

So the personnel that were good enough to beat the Boks twice, and the All Blacks to win the Tri Nations, that lost to the Irish, won't be good enough to beat the Boks or the All Blacks?

Right...

We beat th all blacks at full strength in Brisbane .

Can we stop acting like the win over bok b in Sydney counts, we can include SA, but it looks like they have improved since that game and we have nit.

 

[Richo]

So the personnel that were good enough to beat the Boks twice, and the All Blacks to win the Tri Nations, that lost to the Irish, won't be good enough to beat the Boks or the All Blacks?

Right...

Spot on. The problem -- as ever -- is one of consistency and heart more than it is of talent.

 

[Tangawizi]

I don't agree that Samo deserves to get punted from the squad after the irish match. I think Deans' coaching the effectiveness out of him. I have to ask why Robbie used him for the full match against Italy and tried to do it against Ireland too?

He's an impact player, so once the impact wears off - replace with your other impact player in Palu you douche! I don't think Samo played a full 80 mins for the Reds all season. He's good for about 50mins, then off he goes. Fcking hell I'm still angry about Saturday night.

Will be interesting to see who gets the nod for the match on Friday night, but whoever it is, they better put 50 points past the USA to make up for the rubbish that got served up last weekend.

 

[tragic]

Agree tragic but we shouldn't really have to pick our best team to get BPs against the US and Russia, any line-up should do it.

Mind you, I thought we'd beat Samoa. And Ireland.

Except that Ireland vs USA was fairly close and the USA defended very well. I guess we probably have more attacking penetration in the backs than Ireland (when we arent being smashed in the forwards) so we should be able to pile on more points than them. I wouldnt risk a second string side though when a BP could be vital. Rest only the injured v USA then ring in the changes for Russia..........

 

[tigerland12]

How did O'Connor pull up sore? That one ball run must of taken it out of him.

 

[Braveheart81]

The rain hurt his hair.

 

[Jumpers]

The Wannabes team to play the USA should be Kepu, Faingu, Ma'afu, Sharpe, Vickerman, Higgonbottom, Pocock, Palu, Burgess, Barnes, Mitchell, Ashly-Cooper, O'Connor, Beale. Give Burgess a go at 1/5 or James O'Connor. Chance to rest some players. Its time to show wat the Wannabes can do! This is a perfect opportunity for Barnes/O'Connor to be the backline general and spur on the backline with some accuracy in attack. The forwards need to step up big time and dominate the lineouts, scrums and at the breakdown! The Wannabes need cool heads, leadership, make good decisions, play accurate and ruthlees. Give to them !!

 

[I like to watch]

Now after some initial success other teams have done their homework and he's been somewhat found-out at test level against what many would describe as one of the 'lesser' inside centres in world rugby.

madness

That game was lost by players 1 = 10.
when the 12 crashballed (as called by the 10) he ran into a waiting commitee of 3,since the forwards were being owned. All good players continue their leg drive at impact, he was held up at impact and not supported by his pack. had he run with lower body height he would have been grounded at contact ,with one of the 3 or 4 Irish on the scene easily pilfering.
QC (Quade Cooper) needs a straight runner, so that he can either dance through or throw long to KB (Kurtley Beale). Having Barnes or JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 does not suit his style.
BTW don't suggest Fingers is the answer as he is all thumbs