RWC Wallabies v USA - 23 September

[Bruce Ross]

I'd be hoping that Dingo reveals a gameplan to the guys before they run out. If we have that, we a place start a rebuilding process.

It's a bit like someone claiming to have heard the first koel in spring; or the first media report mentioning "tinderbox" in the bush fire season.

GoReds can lay claim to being first to herald yet another version of the Robbie Deans "rebuilding process". Would I be right in presuming that this time we are rebuilding for the 2013 Lions Tour?

 

[cyclopath]

McCabe has done all asked of him, so tough on him, but I agree we need to try something different in the next 2 games to see what we've got. Barnes has played well in recent weeks. he defends well, he kicks better so give it a go. Maybe McCabe at 13?
Of course, unless the forwards pull their panties out of their arses and get to the business of being nasty and combative, we can play anyone at numbers above 10 and it won't make a scrap of difference.
I'm sure Slim will point out why that's a bad idea.

 

[fatprop]

The thing is that the next two games will tell us little

 

[mark_s]

McCabe should be in the bench for the next two both for his versatility and to see how some others go at 12. Cooper, Barnes And AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 10, 12 and 13 for me against the US.

 

[waratahjesus]

The thing is he the next two games will tell us little

The one thing they will show is composure, it's a different type of composure to the one we didn't hav against Ireland but it's mentally important none th less.

 

[fatprop]

The one thing they will show is composure, it's a different type of composure to the one we didn't hav against Ireland but it's mentally important none th less.

Composure is easy against less skilled opponents

 

[waratahjesus]

Composure is easy against less skilled opponents

We should start a flick pass/chip kick counter to illustrate that the wallabies will still find it hard.

If they can go 80 minutes keeping there structures and working for reward without resorting to miracle passes or plays (that really shouldn't be needed against the standard of opposition) then I will be happy and they would have shown me something.

 

[Ruggo]

I would be happy to See Fainga'a and McCabe swap. I think they are a good pairing but back to front.

 

[GC]

The next 2 games will get Barnes, Mitchell and Higgers match-fit. They are all needed in the run-on side.

 

[light]

Slim, I feel you are fighting a losing battle here my friend.

None of us are saying that McCabe is a bad player, he has been a new revelation and has been far above satisfactory in the majority of his performances. However, the axe must fall after saturday's performance and unfortunately he provides nothing new to the team that isn't already an asset of Ashley-Cooper or Horne. Last week proved that our gameplan doesn't always work and Ireland showed the rest of the world how to beat us. For me, it is essential that we now roll the dice, McCabe has been important in the mid-field and dropping him is not taking anything away from his performances, he is just not part of the framework that can win us this tournament.

It's unfortunate that it took us this long to figure out, Barnes has always been the first choice number 12 and as WJ has eluded to, it is amazing how quickly people forget the success of last year with the dual playmakers at 10 and 12.

If you really think McCabe and whomever may be outside him, have the ability to contain Nonu/Smith and or SBW then I look forward to your response. The Irish centres were head and shoulders above ours and quite frankly, the Kiwi's centres dominated our midfield in Brisbane. There would be nothing greater to know than that if Quade is having a shocker that Barnes can pull the strings and somewhat keep us in check.

 

[RedsHappy]

Just wondering about this, I don't disagree that winning by a large margin will potentially boost the feeling of invincibility we tend to get, but what is the RIGHT way to win the next two pool games?

I know what you're on about Mr T, but let me guarantee one thing: the worst mindset for these Wallabies in entering a QF game vs SA (or anyone else) is 'a feeling of invincibility'. History shows that is the moment when in the Wallabies' now known cycle of 'from masochism and debacle back to intensity and composure' this team goes from competence to dust, it's precisely when they start to feel 'invincible' and over-confident (as manifestly they so often do after good wins). As KB (Kurtley Beale) said re half time v Ireland when in the sheds: '....we were really relaxed, maybe complacent...'.

Herein lies a real danger in the Wallabies playing two minnows now, pre a RWC QF. Big margins and relatively 'convincing' wins will risk taking them right into the wrong moment in their proven psychological cycle.

 

[Slim 293]

Slim, I feel you are fighting a losing battle here my friend.

None of us are saying that McCabe is a bad player, he has been a new revelation and has been far above satisfactory in the majority of his performances. However, the axe must fall after saturday's performance and unfortunately he provides nothing new to the team that isn't already an asset of Ashley-Cooper or Horne. Last week proved that our gameplan doesn't always work and Ireland showed the rest of the world how to beat us. For me, it is essential that we now roll the dice, McCabe has been important in the mid-field and dropping him is not taking anything away from his performances, he is just not part of the framework that can win us this tournament.

It's unfortunate that it took us this long to figure out, Barnes has always been the first choice number 12 and as WJ has eluded to, it is amazing how quickly people forget the success of last year with the dual playmakers at 10 and 12.

If you really think McCabe and whomever may be outside him, have the ability to contain Nonu/Smith and or SBW then I look forward to your response. The Irish centres were head and shoulders above ours and quite frankly, the Kiwi's centres dominated our midfield in Brisbane. There would be nothing greater to know than that if Quade is having a shocker that Barnes can pull the strings and somewhat keep us in check.

So you didn't watch the Tri Nations?

In Brisbane Nonu/Smith only started to get some ascendency when the All Blacks forwards split our defences apart.

Aside from that it's the best containment effort of those two players by any of our centre combinations over the past 4 years.

As for the success of the Cooper/Barnes combination... they only started ONE game last year against a dour French side...

Amazing how people forget...

 

[jollyswagman]

Gee people forget the Cooper / barnes combo they had going last year quickly.

Barnes running the game when the tight stuff was being done with Cooper sweeping around injecting himself made us so much more unpredictable than Cooper handling the ball every tine. It also allowed Cooper to slide wide and take the ball at 13 on occasion. This is awesome as with Beale coming in from fullback it allows th three friends (coops, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor)) to link up and run riot out wide.

If barnes hadn't got injured he would be starting 12 and we wouldn't be having this debate at all. He is there though, losing match fitness by not being played so I don't buy the cover for Cooper excuse or injury, he is in the squad play him.

McCabe has done nothing wrong, he has been given a Jo and has done what has been asked of him, he is a fine young player. It's just my opinion where not using the better one currently.

Well said and I agree completely. I feel Barnes being there would give QC (Quade Cooper) some more options and I am hoping that they get a chance to try get things clicking again against some "lower ranked" sides before any real acid test. I would also like to see where Horne is at this week but I would be content with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at OC when the knockout rounds begin. I know AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is not in his best form but he always seems to get over the gain line - just wish he would pass the ball from time to time.

 

[Utility Back]

Just wondering about this, I don't disagree that winning by a large margin will potentially boost the feeling of invincibility we tend to get, but what is the RIGHT way to win the next two pool games?

It is a bugger.
If we win by heaps, they're crap, if we win by less then 20 we're crap, so what do we do?

Either way none of it should bloody matter, its the rucking world cup, we shouldn't have any feelings of over confidence or needs for extra motivation.

 

[Athilnaur]

We'll all find out what Robbie wants to do soon enough, and definitely the next two games is the only chance he is going to get for Barnes and Horne to get decent runs, Drew too, so it's on the cards those guys will play. On the whole I don't think Robbie is so desperate for bonus points he will forgo the opportunity.

But come the QFs McCabe will start. The guy is a machine and a core to our game. Ant is more at risk, particularly vs Boks or ABs, I think they know his tendency to break the line for tackles and both have the right midfield to make that an expensive error. Add his limited attack and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s form.

Barnes is a great player, but if anything I can see him subbing in for Quade if Quade is failing to control the game, tho that would probably require a 4-3 bench. Just not proven enough this year to start in the eliminations.

Can't see next two games changing our Backline tho, other than maybe Drew starting, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to 13. Even then Drew'll go back to bench once Diggers is back.

Really felt for Ant and that pass, it was a promising play that could have made a huge difference.

 

[jimmymac]

yes our forwards were very disappointing and didnt provide the platform for our backs to shine but 0 tries is a massive problem, if Ireland put 15 points on the AB or SA im sure they'd still back themselves to score enough points to win.

our centres havent offered the spark needed, i agree with the majority here that Ant is gone, he may well be our 13 next WC if not Horne but he isnt offering enough at the moment. mccabe didnt play well either but has shown more promise in attack than Ant.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) played his best game in 12 months recently (yes it was on the wing but returning to form all the same), backed it up with a try playing at 13 in the 2nd half against italy and was one of our best in a poor team performance against ireland. put the 13 on his back and leave him there.

originally i would have started horne and barnes against the US but i think they should use this game to get back on track. if barnes is in the squad for anything other than quade's back up he should be given a crack at 12 against the US.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

JOC (James O'Connor) is back starting. his absence was the reason Ant got to start. Now that JOC (James O'Connor) is back, i don't see the need for Ant to remain, especially after those two performances.
For me, the question is what does the bench look like?
Personally, given his lack of versatility, Ant should be off the bench. yes he can play 12 or 13, but he plays both of them the exact same way ans is really a 'one position' replacement.
I'll presume Barnes won't be elevated to the starting XV right away and will make his way back through the bench. Burgess on the bench as well.
Mitchell will get onto the other wing.
Tough to see Horne making the jump up for my money. Not because of anything he's done, but I think Deans is going to try and solidify his lineup and get Barnes and Mitchell into game shape and playing in their combinations.

Aside from the obvious changes of Moore and Pocock the only other one I can see is questionably radike. I wonder if its just the wet that slows him down? that's two in a row in the wet he's been a bit absent.

 

[Scotty]

McCabe has done all asked of him, so tough on him, but I agree we need to try something different in the next 2 games to see what we've got. Barnes has played well in recent weeks. he defends well, he kicks better so give it a go. Maybe McCabe at 13?
Of course, unless the forwards pull their panties out of their arses and get to the business of being nasty and combative, we can play anyone at numbers above 10 and it won't make a scrap of difference.
I'm sure Slim will point out why that's a bad idea.

McCabe has looked good when he has played a little wider basically in the 13 spot. He has made meters each time and I think it should be a shoot out between him and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13. I am preferring McCabe at the moment to limit the number of changes. With barnes at 12 we also have the option him going to 10 to defend with McCabe at 12 which would continue the current defensive position that McCabe has been excelling in.

 

[The_Riddler]

Wallabies (as selected by Riddler) vs USA

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5. Vickerman
6. Higginbotham
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Mitchell
12. Barnes
13. McCabe
14. O'Connor
15. Beale

16. Polota-Nau
17. Kepu
18. Sharpe
19. Elsom/Samo
20. Burgess
21. Horne
22. Ashley-Cooper

Personally, I prefer a 4-3 bench. Tough call between Elsom and Samo.

 

[light]

Can't see Palu and Higgers both starting, neither have had much game time of late and Palu is still not match-fit. I think Elsom will probably retain his position for another match and Higgers might play 8 with Palu coming off the bench. Samo has been quiet of late and could probably do with the rest. Can't see Deans going for a 4-3 split with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne on the bench, both play the same type of game.