RWC 2011 - Quarter final 3 : Springbokke v. Wallabies CLOSED

[Athilnaur]

While I am not firmly behind either, I just lean to McCabe on what I have observed this year, but also with an opinion that we undervalue defense in Australia.

My preference if we can win collisions is McCabe for 60, then Barnes. If we don't I suspect we will want Barnes sooner - but it might be at 10.

 

[sudrugby]

When I was playing in the Subbies games where cancelled during "wet weather" which was pretty funny for my teamates from Europe.
Is it the same in the Shute Shield, Qld PR and school competition?
That could explain why the Wallabies are struggling when it is raining.

 

[Athilnaur]

It's not like Barnes is a bad defender though? Not as good as McCabe but he makes up for that with what he offers in attack.

McCabe running straight into de Villiers and Fourie is not going to do much for us, both are probably the best defensive center combination going around. But if Barnes is selected we can play a wider game with Quade and co playing havoc.

The Boks struggle with the expansive game, so why take away one of our best attacking combinations.

From where I sit we need the defensive boost more than attack. Our attack ability is staggering. Ioane, O'Connor, Beale, Genia, Cooper, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Samo, Elsom to a degree also.

Personally don't rate Fouries defense. Do rate his intercepts, but like Fainga'a and Nonu, his tendency to make those plays create options for Cooper.

His attack on the other hand is lethal if he's given any space.

Re expansive game, this year our expansive game has profited following us winning the collisions up the guts. Any other times Cooper was trying his low percentage stuff and hoping. Ok in S15, silly in tests imo.

If McCabe had had more time to develop his game we probably wouldn't be having the discussion, but as it stands his distribution is limited. Would like to see him being given some angled lines on occasion, but Cooper hasn't opted to so far.

Equally if BB hadn't been hurt he'd be the incumbent 12.

 

[Groucho]

I agree.

We should drop every player who played against Ireland for that reason.

The main reason I've been in staunch defense of McCabe is for this reason.

The knives had been sharpened from the start, and as soon as their was a bad performance (along with EVERY player in the team) - BAM!

Funny thing is he was far from being the worst player on the field. Put in strong defencce and made a few turnovers.

If Barnes is preferred to McCabe, that doesn't mean McCacbe is bad.

 

[Slim 293]

I don't think that's what I was saying...

 

[rotary hoe]

McCabe brings a hard hitting defence alloyed to very good close support in breakdowns, and a direct attack that straightens defences. His workload, and the quality of that load, read dominant and key tackles, when combined with Pocock, give us a defensive structure that saw us the best defenders in the 3N. In RWC 1 and 2 we conceded no tries. Yet in 3 and 4 we conceded four. 3 of them vs Russia.

On the other hand Berrick, who certainly can tackle, brings a more dynamic attack, and apparently takes the pressure off Quade, particularly with his kicking but brings less defensive impact.

Defence is 50% of rugby. Is Quade that bad we need 2 playmakers?

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/5730944/Wallabies-consider-backline-options-for-Boks

Point being McCabe brings his own brand of excellence to our game, and it works.

Berwick does too, but the above is why I believe McCabe is so valuable.
We're about to take on Roussouw, Brussouw, Burger and Fourie.

If we win that, we face Kaino, Read, Nonu, McCaw, and the Ab Backline at their best form in two years.

And that is why I like McCabe. We have a wealth of attack, McCabe and Pocock temper that offense.

Quade is not that bad that we need 2 playmakers.But it would help if the player next to him could kick,pass,make a break,step or perhaps crash over the gain line, dragging a few defenders with him.

Unfortunately he does none of these things.He runs upright and gets smashed, or worse,is held up as in the Irish game.I dont think it is possible to over emphasise the importance of that first hit up in that game.It gave the Irish extreme confidence in that their game plan could work and when it happened the second time I just about wept.

It is not Pat McCabes fault-he is doing what is asked of him and leaves nothing on the field.Problem is you cannot clone a Stirling Mortlock crashballer out of a 92kg provincial level winger a few weeks before a world cup.

It will be pissing down rain on Sunday and a second kicker will be priceless.Hopefully super coach will go to the bench when the shit hits the fan.Or Pat proves me wrong and rips the Saffas to shreds,popping up all over the field to support Big Benny McCalmans scintillating line busts once Radike has been subbed off.

 

[Richo]

To my mind, one of the biggest problem with the McCabe-AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Fainga'a midfield is that it makes it very hard to put the ball through the hands to the outside backs. This is less of an issue on a dry track, but in the wet it leads to foolish long passes, etc.

 

[mark_s]

9 Genia 10 Cooper, 11 Ioane, 12 Barnes, 13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), 14 JOC (James O'Connor) 15 Beale Would be my backline for this weekend. Barnes has a better kicking game than Mccabe and I think we will need it in the wet V SA. McCabe will be on the bench given he covers 11 to 15.

 

[Dam0]

Everyone seems to be saying that it will be a wet test. You simply don't know that yet. The weather in Wellington - well the whole of NZ but especially Wellington - is hard to predict in advance in spring. Welly had almost a week of fine weather last week and there is every indication that that could happen again.

It will probably be windy but could very easily be a totally dry day.

 

[Braveheart81]

You have to assume that there's at least a 50% chance it's going to be wet on Sunday as 3 of our 4 games have involved at least periods of rain.

Our game plan with McCabe and Fainga'a in the centres has completely fallen down in the wet. That is why we need to be playing Barnes.

I don't understand why all of a sudden Barnes' defence is in question. He has been considered a superb defender for his entire career.

Calling for Barnes to play isn't a slight on McCabe. He's been excellent for us all season. He just doesn't offer the passing and kicking game that Barnes does.

 

[Braveheart81]

When I was playing in the Subbies games where cancelled during "wet weather" which was pretty funny for my teamates from Europe.
Is it the same in the Shute Shield, Qld PR and school competition?
That could explain why the Wallabies are struggling when it is raining.

Our local councils like to close sporting fields when it is wet.

 

[fatprop]

Yeah if there is a game to play field position, this is it, the Boks are unlikely to score from their own half apart from an intercept so keep the bastards down their end

Sent from my LG-E900 using Board Express

 

[exISA]

Fact is guys, we should stop talking about Lawrence here and now. It smacks of 'excuse-ism' even before we've started.

.

To be fair as well, (as much as I dislike Bryce) talking to my South African mates and reading some of their press/forums, they aren't too keen on his appointment either as they think he is bias towards them too.. so I think its a glass half full half empty thing. I just hope the match isn't decided for either team on a dodgy call against either.

 

[What2040]

Deans selections ?

Moore to start - TPN or Finger on bench - TPN hasn't shown true form YET
Kepu or Slipper at 1 - the other will be 17
Horwill, Sharpe and Vickerman - reckon Horwill and Sharpe to start
Mccabe or Barnes - Barnes just brings a little more
Higgers or Samo at 8 - both bring slightly different positives - Higers to start.

 

[Braveheart81]

I predict that Vickerman and Samo will both start. Especially after the number of errors Higgers made against Russia.

Assuming Hodgson is included on the bench, it would seem that Higgers and McCalman are fighting it out for the final bench spot.

 

[No4918]

Deans selections ?

Moore to start - TPN or Finger on bench - TPN hasn't shown true form YET
Kepu or Slipper at 1 - the other will be 17
Horwill, Sharpe and Vickerman - reckon Horwill and Sharpe to start
Mccabe or Barnes - Barnes just brings a little more
Higgers or Samo at 8 - both bring slightly different positives - Higers to start.

Agree with most of that. The 5% extra you get out of McCabe in defence is easily outweighed by Barnes offering at least 50% more in attack. If McCabes running allowed for quick ball or he new how to pop a pass it would be ok but as many have said McCabes running style doesnt allow for this and he is often held up and never asks questions. In super 15 it might offer more but defences at test level are so much tighter. With Digby back this week to run in close and possibly using a forward such as Higgers one outside Quade to get over the gain line we really have no need for McCabe.

 

[Antony]

I think that under-rates mccabe as a runner. He's got no passing game, sure, but the super 15 showed he can actually beat guys on the outside. I just don't think it's his role in a Wallabies team filled with Coops, Beale etc.

 

[fatprop]

Deans selections ?

Moore to start - TPN or Finger on bench - TPN hasn't shown true form YET
Kepu or Slipper at 1 - the other will be 17
Horwill, Sharpe and Vickerman - reckon Horwill and Sharpe to start
Mccabe or Barnes - Barnes just brings a little more
Higgers or Samo at 8 - both bring slightly different positives - Higers to start.

TPN, not great form but still better than finger
Kepu for 50, Slipper for 30
Horwill & Vickerman
Barnes, field position!,field position! field position! and chase! chase! chase!
McCalman to start, Samo to finish @ 8 (Higgers or Samo are too loose to start)

 

[Slim 293]

I think that under-rates mccabe as a runner. He's got no passing game, sure, but the super 15 showed he can actually beat guys on the outside. I just don't think it's his role in a Wallabies team filled with Coops, Beale etc.

As a ball runner, I think he probably thrives on a bit more space like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

He could still be a revelation at outside centre, and that's where he was destined to play next year until Bernie got the idea to play him at 12.

Back to the game, I think Barnes should start too. He's been in good form and you need to persist with that while the momentum is there. Connolly made the mistake in 2007 in the QF to rush AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) back into the starting XV despite Mitchell's form while AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was injured in the previous pool games.

McCabe is also coming back from injury, and can/should come off the bench in the second half.

This certainly leaves some options as he can come into inside centre with Barnes shifting to flyhalf, and Cooper dropping to the bench or fullback which might be a necessity if Beale is not 100% coming back from his injury.

 

[rsea]

Frankly with the way Quade is playing at the moment he really needs Berricks help. I'm not sure if his problems are caused by poor form or opposition teams paying more attention to him but he seems right off his game. A ball player at 12 will relieve pressure on him and maybe even allow him to play his instinctive game. Ever since the Kiwi hate stuff his confidence has been low and it shows

That said I do not want to see Berrick grubbering or chipping period. Or Beale for that matter

Slim - I don't think putting Barnes into 10 for the first of the finals is the answer. In fact this would likely be a disaster