Reds v Stormers - Super Rugby Round 9, 2012

[biggsy]

14. You get Richard Graham in 2013...or earlier

15 Pocock 2014.

 

[Moono75]

15 Pocock 2014.

I don't think Poeys going anywhere. Contract is up end of this year. You would expect he would sign up for at least two years. If he only signs on for 1 year then yes I might be worried for 2014. Reports around that Nalaga is going back to Clermont at the end of the year though.

 

[Penguin]

It's telling us that it is a cancer in Aus rugby . We bemoan it at the Tahs, you at the Reds, it lives at the Force. And we see it in the Wallabies. Gotta wonder anymore if it's coached, or in the water.

I reckon it's in the water.... it's all that fluoride I tells ya!!!!!!

 

[Newter]

Good sport WJ, thanks.

"Thanks"? Are you one of the players, RedsHappy?

 

[Newter]

Sheehan would have to be in Wallaby 9 calculations. Tough and is still very coachable in his 30's. Be nice if we had a gun 9 on the way and we could use Sheehan until they are ready. Kingi looks to have the most promise of the next crop.

Sheehan's too slow for Test rugby. He'll miss tackles. Good operator at this level, though.

 

[Newter]

I read a interesting article the other day that was a statistical evaluation of the Super Rugby competition the last few years or so. The results show that the team who put the ball to boot more and with a defence good enough to stop them running it back to you were the successful teams. It was on a pdf and I will see if I can find it again.

Well I think it's probably on this site somewhere or other. The Reds were the No 1 side for kicking last year, and the Stormers are this season too. Yet the "analysts" here want Genia to stop kicking.

It's funny. When I attended schoolboy rugby back in the day there was this old Marist brother who used to yell out "Give it to the winger!" two or three times a game, without fail. He was great comic value, and didn't know it. Give it to the winger. What a fucking idiot. If teams ran at every opportunity they'd be giving up an extra 20 or 30 points a game. And if the Reds had done it tonight, with their 10 and 13 gone in the first quarter and the replacements half-fit and unready to direct things, it would have been a deadset hiding.

 

[qwerty51]

Maybe you should go look at the Highlanders game plan..

 

[Slim 293]

Sheehan would have to be in Wallaby 9 calculations. Tough and is still very coachable in his 30's. Be nice if we had a gun 9 on the way and we could use Sheehan until they are ready. Kingi looks to have the most promise of the next crop

Eh... you obviously haven't been watching much Super Rugby...

Nic White ring a bell?

 

[Newter]

Maybe you should go look at the Highlanders game plan..

20 kicks a game. Every team kicks a lot, even the ones who do it least. It's common sense.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/stats-super-kicking-culprits/

 

[Schadenfreude]

8. Reds No. 10 jersey should be retired for all time - just name your team with a random guy at no 10 and at the very last minute before the game substitute that guy with Lucas or QC (Quade Cooper) or whatever wearing No. 22

I'd suggest after what's just happened to Lynagh all previous 10s should come back for a game and wear 22 as well!

Whoever cursed that number 10 did so indiscriminately.

 

[redstragic]

The Stormers played a 15 man game. They always had guys around he ball, never panicked, where the ball was kicked through loose hey would pass it and run it out. They had plans, like the 2011 Reds. It is tough to watch the Reds this year. They have no game plan, I know there are many injuries but how can Link go from 2 years of producing game plans that suited the team he fielded to this year not being able to produce a winning plan?

 

[TheBigDog]

Its hard for the Reds when arguably all of their best attacking backs are sitting on the sidelines or playing like shit.

Quade and Diggers provide the most spark for them, both not playing. Last year Genia provided a lot of go forward, this year he's a non-factor. And then i'd say Taps is the next best attacking weapon, now he has a broken collarbone. The backs they are left with are all quite good players and proficient in their positions but as I said in a post pre game, they aren't going to put on a highlights show and score lots of points. I'd say the guys they are left with are finishers or role players (Harris goal kicking, Lucas subsuper sub etc). Yes Shipperly has been playing well this year but its still his first year getting consistent starts so he's still warming into it.

Im confident things will turn around in the coming weeks starting with the inclusion of Diggers and then Quade to follow. Oh and hopefully Link resting Genia happens during this time as well

And for everyone who's going to say 'you don't need flashy highlight plays and players to win games'. The Reds in 2010 and 2011 thrived from attacking plays all over the field. They entertained the crowds and played the most enjoyable footy in the competition and in 2011 got themselves a championship from it. So I do believe the Reds benefit from the flashy players and unpredictable style which is hopefully what they will return to later this year.

 

[Juan Cote]

The Reds do have a game plan and it seems to be to play for field position at all costs then try and force the opposition into error, either through a ruck turnover or penalty. Pretty limited I know, but with the troops available, it's probably the least risky option.

Last night they seemed to tweak the kicking game plan to include shallow chip kicks as a way of turning the Stormers around rather than pumping the ball high and trying to make a 50/50 contest out of the reception (although there was a fair smattering of that sort of kick as well).

None of it worked and what surprises me is the lack ability for the on-field decision makers to recognise this and try something different.

Last year the Reds played a few different styles, sometimes they'd even play different ways within the same game, but this year it's been all the same. The use of the kick this year says they don't feel confident they can score tries using their own attacking nous so they are more comfortable with trying to get the other team to make a mistake and feed off that.

The Reds backline has no threats. The back three are too lazy to try and work and make things happen. Remember last year with Lucas/Lance and Diggers popping up all over the field? When the Reds do the get 1st phase ball there is no movement in attack, it is simply catch and pass and without a damaging ball runner to dent the line it's not going to pose too many problems for defences at this level.

Genia's white flag call at the end to go for a losing bonus point with 5 or 6 mins left instead of going for a try, which if scored could have given them a chance to steal the win, confirms this.

This comes back to my first statement - it was the least risky option. Sadly though, the least risky option isn't going to win many games against better opposition.

 

[Riptide]

I find some of the comments/expectations here to be very unrealistic.

The Reds have the worst injury toll of any S15 side and the 10/12 slot has been wiped out. Exactly who is going to making the key decisions to alter/re-shape a game plane? The Reds are down to the 4th/5th player on the depth chart.

Tactics have had to be radically simplified and unfortunately that has played into opposition hands. The game is different this year and ref interpretations pendulum has swung back in favor of the defensive team. Teams are not getting the same reward when the take the ball forward into rucks.

 

[fatprop]

There were some promising pieces from the Reds in the second half, they put in and worked hard.
I thought after the first half they were going to be done by 50

I still think the issue is the forwards. The backs are generally better at counter rucking and competing for the ball at the tackle.

The Reds forwards seem to go for the long reach in for turnovers, if they miss, they just stand back.

That is just the opposite of say the Highlanders whose forwards combatively compete at nearly every breakdown. Staying on their feet and trying to drive past the ball as a unit.

 

[Juan Cote]

I find some of the comments/expectations here to be very unrealistic.

. Exactly who is going to making the key decisions to alter/re-shape a game plane?

I would have thought Horwill and Genia would be pretty high on the list of people who could make key decisions

 

[Scotty]

Soft tries?? The Reds got a soft try. You sound like your normal sour grape loser again. Chin up and give credit to the much better team on the day.

Here we go again.

Where did I say the stormers didn't deserve to win? All I was pointing out was that the reds were poor and the stormers were only a little better. Yes the tries were soft in that reds players fell off relatively easy tackles, surely even you would agree with that? Of course the reds try was also soft.

 

[Scotty]

...and Horwill's try was well constructed was it? You're right though, the Stormers weren't on top of their game - how many lineout's did they lose or if they won it was really scrappy ball. Were not able to use their forward drive off the lineout once. Habana played well defensively at 13 (when I thought he may struggle) but on attack he butchered a couple of decent overlaps with scrappy passing.

Any win on the road is a good win though, particularly at Suncorp stadium which has been a bit of a fortress for the Reds over the last two seasons. The sign of a good team is to come away from a game with 4 points when you haven't played well.

After ten minutes it became the battle of the wingers playing at outside centre. It may have helped habana defensively.

 

[Scotty]

There were some promising pieces from the Reds in the second half, they put in and worked hard.
I thought after the first half they were going to be done by 50

I still think the issue is the forwards. The backs are generally better at counter rucking and competing for the ball at the tackle.

The Reds forwards seem to go for the long reach in for turnovers, if they miss, they just stand back.

That is just the opposite of say the Highlanders whose forwards combatively compete at nearly every breakdown. Staying on their feet and trying to drive past the ball as a unit.

I thought the reds forwards matched the stormers last night, and they should actually be keeping it tighter and working the blind more often. We always look the best when genia has multiple forward runners coming onto it at pace.

Higgers, Daley, slipper, Hanson, Simmons and horwill all had very good games (except for Simmons drop over the line).

 

[cyclopath]

There were some promising pieces from the Reds in the second half, they put in and worked hard.
I thought after the first half they were going to be done by 50

I still think the issue is the forwards. The backs are generally better at counter rucking and competing for the ball at the tackle.

The Reds forwards seem to go for the long reach in for turnovers, if they miss, they just stand back.

That is just the opposite of say the Highlanders whose forwards combatively compete at nearly every breakdown. Staying on their feet and trying to drive past the ball as a unit.

At the risk of being flamed, I agree with this, and will add a point about Higginbotham, whom I tried to watch closely last night. I understand the fact he plays wide is coached, so I'm not having a seagull comment at him per se. But a couple of times last night, he was very close to a breakdown at which the Reds were getting pumped, and he stood there watching. He is a big mongrel of a guy, and if he wore the colors of a Kiwi franchise, I suspect he'd have stuck his shoulder in and shifted someone out of there. I'm not sure he is being used as effectively as he might.
Simmons and Samo were leaden-footed in their defensive non-efforts for the two Stormers tries too.