Reds v Stormers - Super Rugby Round 9, 2012

[PaarlBok]

Here we go again.

Where did I say the stormers didn't deserve to win? All I was pointing out was that the reds were poor and the stormers were only a little better. Yes the tries were soft in that reds players fell off relatively easy tackles, surely even you would agree with that? Of course the reds try was also soft.

Well tries are scored when players miss tackles. I still cant understand why you classified a try started in your own goal area a soft try with backs and forwards (even Ginga played a huge role in the Grant try) handling.So no I cant agree to what you try to tell me.

 

[AlexH]

Well tries are scored when players miss tackles. I still cant understand why you classified a try started in your own goal area a soft try with backs and forwards (even Ginga played a huge role in the Grant try) handling.So no I cant agree to what you try to tell me.

Mate, if you cannot agree with a perfectly reasonable comment why don't you post on a SA Rugby forum instead where you can ignore the facts and give each other pats on the back?

 

[Riptide]

I would have thought Horwill and Genia would be pretty high on the list of people who could make key decisions

Fair enough, but exactly who has the nous outside the 9 (since some have been quite vocal about spreading the ball) to craft the methods during gametime to unlock the opposition defense. The Reds kicked the ball less against the Bulls than in any other game in 3 years and got destroyed. Right now, they just dont have the horses in key positions.

 

[vidiot]

There is no game plan that will survive

1) falling off tackles
2) giving ground every phase through sluggish line speed in defence and
3) simple errors that turn possession over (Genia caught behind the ruck, Harris kicking out on the full, the chip kicks, and the costly failure to convert chances like Davies over-running Beau with the line open and Simmons losing the ball over the line)

They have to do the basics right consistently.

The amazing thing with that game was that the reds actually made easily enough chances to win if they had the composure, despite being dire at times. Last year they would have. But their confidence and trust is gone.

 

[redstragic]

The amazing thing with that game was that the reds actually made easily enough chances to win if they had the composure, despite being dire at times. Last year they would have. But their confidence and trust is gone.

There were more than a few times that there was some space out wide on the occasions that the stormers kicked and we gathered cleanly. We kicked that stupid up-and-under (that has not worked since before these players were born) and lost possession.

It sucked seeing the guys fight so hard to get some ball and then kick it away and then have to go and fight to get it again. Not smart rugby. Gill is so fast, when he came on we got some ball that had up to that point alluded us, I think it is too much on Beau to do it alone with Saia not scrounging with him.

The season is not gone but is is going to be tough a fuck now. Gill and beau need to start and Higgs needs to be at 8. That back row combo looked vicious against the Brumbies. Keep Schatz and Eddie as dry powder for the last 30 minutes. Young, fast and vicious is what we need there to compete for the ball. It will build them for next year as well considering one more loss and that's what we are playing for.

 

[Ruggo]

One thing I don't like about the 2012 Reds is the kick chase. They advance like snails towards the ball and put no pressure on the opposition. They should be trying to turn a bad kick into a good one through a good chase. We have some of the fastest outside backs in the comp but we advance like slugs.

 

[flat_eric]

The Reds are in truly disastrous form. Watch the supporters drop off now

 

[RedsHappy]

As of today, the Reds look like a team that, from here on, can only beat Australian teams that they face at Suncorp. Lions at Suncorp and Rebels away may be exceptions, but, on current form, I see few others.

For the above not to be true, significant improvements will be required in virtually every facet of their play. And the deep flaws in handling, composure, phase possession, kicking, defense, cohesive attack, etc have been absolutely evident from the earliest 2012 Rnds, and are quite independent of injuries. The injuries are doubly bad as they permit a smokescreen analysis of our problems and create a superficial enthusiasm that returning players are principally what is required.

 

[flat_eric]

The injuries are doubly bad as they permit a smokescreen analysis of our problems and create a superficial enthusiasm that returning players are principally what is required.

This. What a difference a year makes.

 

[RedsHappy]

The Reds are in truly disastrous form. Watch the supporters drop off now

This is now a genuine concern, you are right to raise it.

I felt an awful chill down my spine when in the first half v Stormers the Reds were a distinct recreation of their 2007-8 selves and the quality of rugby they displayed deserved little but a crowd of hyper-loyalists, say 9,000 max. The 31,000 there had come to see a memory of something fine and disciplined and skillful. Instead they were served up old, rotten porridge. To hear them groan at the ludicrous kicking and yell 'run it, run it, run it' as they watched the hapless Morahan with that 'need to kick now' look on his worried face, said everything.

These new paying fans, so hard won, are being deceived by the latest Reds and their hard-issue-avoiding senior players and coaches. Sadly, 'when greatness calls' they have in fact not responded.

I am deeply concerned that if these poor standards and seeming in-denial leaders and managers continue in this way, 2013 membership and average crowds will hit in at roughly 16,000-18,000 max, a huge reversal.

Link's and the QRU's outlandish complacency re the Reds' security of performance outcome and over-confidence that 2013's head coaching requirement is a new man of proven mediocrity, poor character in terms of real loyalty, and at best 'a cultural fit who's great at community rugby', could turn into a calamitous misjudgment of major proportion risking all of their outstanding work in 2010 and 2011 for which I was amongst the first to rightly applaud.

 

[the sabanator]

well it was a fun two years while it lasted

 

[redstragic]

This. What a difference a year makes.

Dude, don't be trolling. It adds nothing. A witty comment or a Bruce style piece of Sarcasm make me laugh. Trolling just make me frown . See, I frowning now .Now I double frown.

 

[twenty seven]

The Reds are in truly disastrous form. Watch the supporters drop off now

Only those who themselves are fly by nights would dare to post such crap. Who cares. Those that are true supporters will stick it out, watch and keep supporting.

 

[ChargerWA]

The Reds are young enough that they could win the title again another 5 times just with the squad they have. Just need to replace an ageing Samo and keep Digby from the lure of the yen.

 

[Tangawizi]

I was going to say its not panic stations at the Reds yet but with the Blues, Crusaders & Chiefs over the next 3 weeks, it is panic stations if we want to play in the finals in 2012.

The Blues despite their position on the table, haven't been going that badly for the past few weeks. And the other 2 sides have been going far better than the Reds this year.

But can't keep relying on the other Australian sides losing to keep us in with a chance.

How to win with the available cattle is a tough question to answer though. Maybe Genia should watch Rocky 3 a few times this week. His try in the GF seems a long time ago now.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Its hard to win a game with 33 percent possesion. The Stormers bully teams upfront forcing teams into mistakes and conceding penalties. Once they take the lead they never give it up. All their games they did not win by a big margin except the Canes first game but it was not huge. But they do whats needed to win and they do the basics so well. Did the Reds play poor or did they play as good as the Stormers allowed them to play?

 

[RedsHappy]

Australian Super Rugby conference as of today

The competency issues that lie less obviously for the Reds are however most forcibly told in our bonus point count to Rnd 9. Bonus points (highlighted below) are a kind of proxy for relative skill and relative attacking capability, even though they are independent of wins. We have managed all of 1. Brumbies 6, Tahs 5, Force 5. Even the Rebels have 2! The Brumbies have the equivalent of 1.5 wins just in Bps.

1, Brumbies ( ) 8 4 4 0 1 208 186 22 6 26
2. Waratahs ( ) 8 4 4 0 1 193 182 11 5 25
3. Reds ( ) 8 4 4 0 1 153 216 -63 1 21
4. W.Force ( ) 8 2 6 0 1 181 212 -31 5 17
5. Rebels ( ) 8 2 6 0 1 154 241 -87 2 14

 

[Slim 293]

Mate, if you cannot agree with a perfectly reasonable comment why don't you post on a SA Rugby forum instead where you can ignore the facts and give each other pats on the back?

We're not allowed to disagree now?

I felt Paarl had a legitimate gripe with the odd declaration that the Stormers' tries were labelled "soft"...

 

[RedsHappy]

Only those who themselves are fly by nights would dare to post such crap. Who cares. Those that are true supporters will stick it out, watch and keep supporting.

27, I guess it all depends on your quantum estimate of 'true supporters' as to 'who cares'. The QRU was de facto bankrupt by end 2009 on the basis of gradually but chronically falling crowd numbers as the Reds piled one bad annual w-l ratio upon another. IIRC, 2009 average home crowds were in the 11,000 range.

The numbers since have built solely from three factors: (i) much improved w-l ratio and lots of home wins, (ii) style of play: dynamic, mobile, skilful, 'entertaining', (iii) a brace of attractive, very talented, 'personality' players like QC (Quade Cooper), DI, WG, BR, SH, etc. that people come to watch (though based upon the former 2 factors). Then, from all 3 factors, came the GF win which has taken support to lofty heights, which is now, or should be, a treasured (yet fragile) asset of the QRU's.

This growth of support has not come from some rusted-on irrevocable love affair that will last into the mists of time. If anyone thinks that, they are totally deluded.

If the Reds drop back to a consistently poor standard of play, with more home losses, and the mojo fall off of 'the key personalities', like it or not, the old financial and commercial vulnerabilities for the QRU will surely return, and quite quickly I would argue. This is precisely why I am so concerned over not only the current decline in the 2012 Reds playing quality (not wins, but playing and attacking quality of skills execution), and triply concerned over the extraordinary choice of RG as new Head Coach for 2013 - in making this appointment, it was though the QRU assumed they'd already created a Crusaders-like dynastic hold on the Reds' supremacy for the next 3 years or so, and all that was now needed was 'succession planning', 'QLD community rugby building' and even greater commercial and State-wide rugby success via multiple coaching layers and such like.

 

[Tangawizi]

Its hard to win a game with 33 percent possesion. The Stormers bully teams upfront forcing teams into mistakes and conceding penalties. Once they take the lead they never give it up. All their games they did not win by a big margin except the Canes first game but it was not huge. But they do whats needed to win and they do the basics so well. Did the Reds play poor or did they play as good as the Stormers allowed them to play?

Have to agree with what James Horwill said - the Stomers gave the Reds enough chances to win the match, but they did not take them through knocking on over the line, not throwing straight at crucial lineouts etc. In the key moments, the Reds came up short on Friday night.

"We felt we created enough opportunities to win that game. A lot of it was our own mistakes and not backing ourselves to get over the line," he told Fox Sports.