Quade Cooper and Summer Digressions

[TOCC]

I was taught to carry into contact the same, makes it harder for the opposition to rip the ball away.

yes, well the point was actually raised when we were watching the Kangaroos and Kiwis rugby league test, one of the forwards hit the ball up and then lost it, the american criticised him for the way he held the ball saying it was the weakest way to hold it and the proceeded to tell me the american football trick

I was taught to carry the ball in two hands as much as possible, as it opened up the possibility of passing from either side and had the added effect of making the defender in front stop dead, because they didn't know which direction you were going to move in next.

yes this is true as well, however from a forwards perspective and when the opposition are only 5m away, there isnt much variety in terms of what your intentions are going to be, either pass or run forward..At this point its smarter to lead with one shoulder and secure the ball in the other arm, this keeps the ball furtherest point from the oppostion and also allows your free army for the fend.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

In that situation, you are quite right. I was more thinking in open play when you aren't hard up against the try line.

 

[DPK]

TBH, please don't try to explain "open play" to a forward...

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I *am* an ex forward. One who enjoyed a bit of a gallop with the ball, but I suspect I may be the only one

 

[Tangawizi]

I have no problem with Quade carrying as the ball like that. It's why he can do things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hquX4PlNqyw

 

[Groucho]

yes, well the point was actually raised when we were watching the Kangaroos and Kiwis rugby league test, one of the forwards hit the ball up and then lost it, the american criticised him for the way he held the ball saying it was the weakest way to hold it and the proceeded to tell me the american football trick



yes this is true as well, however from a forwards perspective and when the opposition are only 5m away, there isnt much variety in terms of what your intentions are going to be, either pass or run forward..At this point its smarter to lead with one shoulder and secure the ball in the other arm, this keeps the ball furtherest point from the oppostion and also allows your free army for the fend.

The American ball is quite a bit smaller than a rugby ball.

I reckon the Mungos will have worked out the best hold for their shape and size of ball. They are avid consumers of gridiron techniques and will not have let something as simple as that get past them.

 

[TOCC]

Yes the sizes do vary.... As for this mungo, well he dropped the ball so he couldn't have been doing to well

 

[Lindommer]

The American ball is quite a bit smaller than a rugby ball. I reckon the Mungos will have worked out the best hold for their shape and size of ball. They are avid consumers of gridiron techniques and will not have let something as simple as that get past them.

A standard rugby league football is a touch smaller and a little bit pointier than a rugby one. It's interesting to note Super League used Gilbert footballs during its short life span.

 

[Groucho]

NFL ball dimensions:

Short Circumference: 20 3/4"- 21 1/4"
Long Circumference: 27 3/4 "- 28 1/2 "
Weight: 14-15 oz

In metric:

Long Circumference: 704.85 - 723.90 mm
Short Circumference: 527.05 - 539.75 mm
Weight: 396.89 - 425.24 g

Rugby ball dimensions:

Long Circumference: 740 - 770 mm
Short Circumference: 580 - 620 mm
Weight 410 - 460 g

 

[Roll Away Black 7]

Didn't we have a gnarled old leaguie as our D coach in Muggo ? What about our current D Coach in Blakey ?

 

[Bruce Ross]

Didn't we have a gnarled old leaguie as our D coach in Muggo ? What about our current D Coach in Blakey ?

ADMIRAL, you certainly couldn't be described as a compulsive poster, averaging one posting every two months.

I am not one to pour scorn on the rival code or individuals and I don't know what your position is on this, but I don't feel that our code has much to learn any more from leaguies on the issue of defensive patterns.

Going back more than a decade, league had a much more structured and effective system of defence than rugby, and as a result coaches such as Muggleton were able to make a significant impact.

But the reality is that rugby is a much more complex game than league. In addition players are required to defend a much greater space laterally.

What is notable is that many star league players who have migrated across to our code have soon been recognised as poor defenders.

The most relevant factor in recruiting Phil Blake should not have been his rugby league background but rather the defensive record of the Manly Club in the 2010 Sydney Premiership which was outstanding. Having said that I don't think the Wallabies' defensive performance against England in particular was particularly meritorious. It may be that elevating a coach directly from semi-professional club rugby to international competition is not the optimal course of action.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I agree Bruce, Phil Blake's appointment had everything to do with how well Manly defended in the Shute Shield this season. He wasn't renowned as a great defender during his playing days.

 

[Groucho]

I agree Bruce, Phil Blake's appointment had everything to do with how well Manly defended in the Shute Shield this season. He wasn't renowned as a great defender during his playing days.

Neither were Les Kiss or John Muggleton, to be fair. Their contribution to the art was to refine (and arguably re-define) defensive theory after their playing days.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Don't really remember Muggleton, but I do vaguely remember Les Kiss. He was a bit of a hard man, wasn't he?

 

[Bruce Ross]

I do vaguely remember Les Kiss. He was a bit of a hard man, wasn't he?

BH, are you sure you're not mixing him up with his brothers, Glasgow and Liverpool?

 

[RugbyReg]

exactly. He was the winsiest of speedy wingers who had shoulder pads bigger than the rest of his body.

An excellent finisher and played Origin footy and for the Kangaroos on their undefeated Kangaroo tour of 86, so he was no hack.

 

[Scott Allen]

Here's a review of Quade's defence I've just posted http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/austins-chalkboard-quade-cooper-in-defence/

 

[kambah mick]

Les Kiss was a top class winger who was hampered by injuries. Muggo was a journeyman forward with no notable failings or excessive skill. Blake was a try scoring sneak with an instinct for attack and an instinct ti avoid defence.
Most of the best Mungo coaches were only marginal players, ie Gould (insufficient stamina), Ryan (lacked pace), Gibson (too busy at Thommos), etc.

 

[Linus]

Muggo was a long time 1st grader, if I remember correctly all at Parramatta and primarily selected as a defensive 2nd rower. I would say most of the best coaches (in any sport) were players who got by without alot of physical talent. They had to make up the difference with brains.

 

[I like to watch]

Jeez Mick, you are a hard marker. Muggo did play test footy methinks, so was a bit more than a journeyman. Also Blake did have the record for a looooong time for most tries in a season, predominantly from his chip & chase.NO ONE plays 16 years in the NRL without a sound defensive game.
I agree that most successful coaches were not brilliant players. It kind of makes sense that the thinkers rather than the brilliant players transition best into the coaching ranks.