Quade Cooper and Summer Digressions

[Jnor]

What's with all the mungo talk in the Quade Cooper thread? Oh wait...... 8)

 

[lincoln]

Blake, Muggleton, and Kiss may not have been great defenders but they may have insight into the techniques required from their observations. A great player does not always equal great coach - seriously do you think Trevor the Axe or Ryan have a deep understanding of why they are good defenders.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

And vice versa. Not all great coaches were great players. In fact most great coaches were very average players and plenty of them never made it beyond club level. Not that that is a bad thing.

 

[Richo]

One point to add on the NFL ball -- lateral / backwards passing is never used by the carrier so security is the single most important aspect of ball-carrying, rather than a combination of security and passing/offloading. If players starting carrying the ball like that in rugby, we'd all be complaining about how they can't get passes off quickly.

 

[Lee Grant]

Was just watching the 1992 test Boks v NZ - their first game back after what was genteely called "isolation". It had been a while since I had seen it.

Flyhalf Naas Botha made Quade look like Brian Lima or Willie O. To be fair he was 34 at the time.

He didn't like being tackled either, which is why he invariably stood deep. He had value nevertheless because he could make the ball sing from either foot.

 

[I like to watch]

Lee, do you think Naas had the best boot of all time, or is/was there somebody better?

 

[Lee Grant]

I'd say he was the best. I'm not talking about goal kicking, including field goals - anybody can look them up and make comparisons, but he could make the ball do wondrous things from hand.

I never saw him play at the ground but somewhere in the garage I have a commercial video of the 1980 Lions tour to South Africa with Afrikaans commentary that a rugby pal of mine sent me yonks ago. And I have the 1981 test games v NZ, before the curtain rightfully descended, archived on my computer. Old Naas was the most accurate, long kicker from either foot I have ever seen - and will ever see most likely, because the skill of kicking off both feet has gone a'glimmering, except with a few practitioners like Wilko.

Things disappear in rugby like the straight put into the scrum, kicking off both feet, and the 1950s ruck, (like a maul but with the ball on the ground.) They'll say it's progress and they are probably right, I suppose. Nobody had heard of a banana kick in the olden times.

I saw the great All Black fullback, Don Clarke play quite a lot in NZ during the time my parents moved there for about 8 years - both for the Blacks and the Mooloos. He was the longest kicker from hand I ever saw, but mostly from the right foot, and I doubt that Frans Steyn could ever place kick on old wet leather rugby ball like the great "Don" could.

I remember once looking forward to Don Clarke playing against Australia at Lancaster Park over 50 years ago and was disappointed when news came through that he was injured. I knew all about the All Blacks then, but very little about the Wallaby players having been in NZ over 5 years already, and in the time before TV. But it didn't take long to realise that the Australian fullback was doing everything that I had seen Clarke do.

Terry Curley was only 20 years old, and, as I found out later, played his first test for Oz at 18. The test match I saw was his 2nd last because he entered the priesthood when he got back to Oz. The Joeys lad could have been a Wallaby great if he had another calling.

The next best long Oz kicker I've seen was Roger Gould but the best tactical kickers were Paul Mclean and Noddy Lynagh. For the Kiwis Grant Fox was king but he kicked far too much because he was a poor runner. To some extent Mehrts was the same but he was more of an all round player than Foxy ever was.

Another tactical kicker I liked, if you can like such players, was Ollie Campbell of Ireland, but I saw so little of him that it doesn't signify except to say in hindsight that he was the precursor to ROG.

I'm trying to think back, with the keyboard in front of me knowing that somebody will mention the worthy Hugo Porta and others I have seen, but that will have to do for now having consumed my ritual two glasses of red with a late dinner.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Hugo Porta is probably the best kicker out of hand or placed that I've seen. But I've always been more of a fan of the blokes who pass the ball

 

[dobduff11]

Dan carter Jonny Wilks and Gavin Henson all had pretty massive boots on Rugby 06

Paul thorburn i think had a monster place kick

Most of the others have failry standard kicking lengths apart from Francois Steyn

 

[Lee Grant]

A lot of guys can kick the ball a long way but to reiterate what I said above Old Naas was the most accurate, long kicker from either foot I have ever seen.

Length, accuracy and both feet. Wilko is the best of modern players but he never had the prodigious length of Naas.

 

[dobduff11]

Wilko used to have a pretty big boot in 2001 when he spiralled it alot. He then stopped spiralling and favoured the drop punt which gives less power.

Rugby 06 is a video game Lee it was meant to be a joke for those who have played because with those three players you can kick it about 90 metres on the fall.

Have never seen Naas botha kick but i'll take your word for it lee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFmcsTfQBDM

Here is the paul thorburn kick:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtTbcfwCMA

 

[Gagger]

Biggest kicker I saw from hand was Tim Kelleher at Joeys in 89. Also played a few tests for the wallabies.

Spiral from 22 to 22. You really didnt want to kick it deep to him. Thighs so big he had to wear wet suit shorts to keep em from ripping off the bone.

 

[Lindommer]

Biggest kicker I saw from hand was Tim Kelaher at Joeys in 89.

Sounds like a good year, G.

The best kicker we've had in Oz the last decade would have to be Chris Latham. Chris got some specialist training from AFL somewhere and perfected the art of kicking torpedo punts. I'm surprised, and disappointed, other fullbacks haven't followed Chris's lead in an attempt to get more length on their kicks.

The longest kicker I've seen in rugby would have to be Roger Gould. Roger invariably returned kicks a good 20/30 metres past the kicker and had the accuracy to put it close to the touch line. Opponents often had to get in a rushed kick resulting in much territory lost and the other side throwing in to boot.

When Western Districts won their first Brisbane premiership in 1977 the club's supporters retired to Sylvan Road for a slap up lunch (went from Tuesday to Thursday IIRC). That year Wests AFL also won and a few of their blokes wandered over to Toowong to help us celebrate. They'd heard about "Superboot" Gould and one of their best kickers challenged Roger to a game of forcies; Roger booted him off the park!

I read in a record book somewhere about the longest kick in rugby: Jim Lenehan received a ball behind the goal line in a game in Wales and the resulting kick finished up behind the opponent's goal line. I'll try and find it if I can. Jim, of course, played for Wagga Waratahs.

 

[cyclopath]

Biggest kicker I saw from hand was Tim Kelleher at Joeys in 89. Also played a few tests for the wallabies.

Spiral from 22 to 22. You really didnt want to kick it deep to him. Thighs so big he had to wear wet suit shorts to keep em from ripping off the bone.

Gagger has a man-thigh fixation!

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Best modern kicker is definately Wilko. biggest kicker, I'm surprised nobody has given Latham a nod. Wondering if i'm cofusing him with somebody else?

EDIT: Ok, I see somebody mentioned him... sorry took me an hour to finally post that post!

 

[TOCC]

latho had a big boot, but really only got the accuracy and consistency needed in his later years

 

[Lindommer]

biggest kicker, I'm surprised nobody has given Latham a nod.

Read four posts up.

 

[Lindommer]

I read in a record book somewhere about the longest kick in rugby: Jim Lenehan received a ball behind the goal line in a game in Wales and the resulting kick finished up behind the opponent's goal line. I'll try and find it if I can.

Here 'tis. On a Wagga Wagga website, of course. http://www.wagga.nsw.gov.au/www/html/1250-lenehan-james.asp

 

[Gnostic]

Sounds like a good year, G.

The best kicker we've had in Oz the last decade would have to be Chris Latham. Chris got some specialist training from AFL somewhere and perfected the art of kicking torpedo punts. I'm surprised, and disappointed, more fullbacks haven't followed Chris's lead in an attempt to get more length on their kicks.

The longest kicker I've seen in rugby would have to be Roger Gould. Roger invariably returned kicks a good 20/30 metres past the kicker and had the accuracy to put it close to the touch line. Opponents often had to get in a rushed kick resulting in much territory lost and the other side throwing in to boot.

When Western Districts won their first Brisbane premiership in 1977 the club's supporters retired to Sylvan Road for a slap up lunch (went from Tuesday to Thursday IIRC). That year Wests AFL also won and a few of their blokes wandered over to Toowong to help us celebrate. They'd heard about "Superboot" Gould and one of their best kickers challenged Roger to a game of forcies; Roger booted him off the park!

I read in a record book somewhere about the longest kick in rugby: Jim Lenehan received a ball behind the goal line in a game in Wales and the resulting kick finished up behind the opponent's goal line. I'll try and find it if I can. Jim, of course, played for Wagga Waratahs.

And with the old leather ball as well. Campo was right up there as well.

The modern game doesn't encourage the long kick so much. The rule change preventing kicking the ball dead by giving a scrum re-start from point of kicking put paid to it. Accuracy to the corners over outright length is the tactic of the day. I have no doubt at all some of our stars of today could get at least the same distance off the boot especially with the modern ball.

 

[Lee Grant]

If it comes to length of kick with an old wet leather ball Don Clarke was even longer than Gould or Curley IMO. He would be unbelievable with the modern ball.