Quade Cooper and Summer Digressions

[Bullrush]

Actually, it's pretty obvious I was referring to what people were inferring from his tweets...nothing to do with the defence form/discussion. Perhaps a more careful read of the previous few posts to mine would have helped. You would have discovered that people were using a few tweets of his as evidence to suggest he doesn't care about the loss to England.

People aren't inferring these things JUST from his tweets solely....the tweets kinds just put the icing on the cake.

Hence the other thing that I mentioned re: tackling/contract negotiations

Scarfman: I also would spell the word "in" without an apostrophe.

LOL

 

[Crow]

Maybe he needs a pr assistant. I think his gf could do with one as well

 

[Groucho]

Gnostic, first, whilst these are professional sports that does not make them an identical workplace to any other organisation. Second, it is not uncommon if all other avenues have been explored, short of sacking, to publicly chastise/criticise a worker/player. A written warning that deplorable defence is unacceptable conduct and any further incidence will result in your sacking does NOT help a footballer. In this instance, it is entirely possible that with considerable misgivings within the camp the only option Deans had to prevent morale dropping further was public criticism.

It is also possible that he gauged that with this individual, the strongest boost and focus would come from extrinsic pressure.

I don't think anyone has questioned the truthfulness of the comments, or that QC (Quade Cooper) has issues in that department.

You agree with Deans' assertion that Cooper has to improve his defence "to be considered as a long term prospect" yet still somehow Deans is creating a diversion? I really do hope your shrink knows how paranoid you are.

We don't know the individuals, we don't know the camp, we don't know what management style works best. We can only judge abstractly from the side - based on RESULTS. So let's sit down at the end of the tour and decide whether or not it was appropriate to bollock a player in front of the media, based on results.

I have to agree. I also regard myself as a sensitive manager, but sometimes playing hardball is required, and sometimes a public bollocking is necessary. It wasn't even remotely a bollocking.

 

[Groucho]

People aren't inferring these things JUST from his tweets solely....the tweets kinds just put the icing on the cake.

Hence the other thing that I mentioned re: tackling/contract negotiations



LOL

Bullrush, for the record, is there anyting you do like.

 

[Gnostic]

Very funny that some posters want to see Pro sports people managed differently than any other group. They have no understanding of group dynamics or individual psychology, and do not acknowledge the effects of such statements on the standing of the organsiation.

If Cooper resents Deans public bagging of him, he isn’t going to say it to anybody but his closest friends, but resentment like that will mean that he is less receptive to coaching/mentoring from Deans or people appointed by him. It basically means to me that Deans could well have burnt a bridge here.

 

[trophyhunter]

Deans may have burnt a bridge, but what comeback does Quade have. If I whinged to my mate about the coach ragging on me for poor tackling, my mate would say stop being a nancy and tackle.

 

[stoff]

Very funny that some posters want to see Pro sports people managed differently than any other group. They have no understanding of group dynamics or individual psychology, and do not acknowledge the effects of such statements on the standing of the organsiation.

If Cooper resents Deans public bagging of him, he isn’t going to say it to anybody but his closest friends, but resentment like that will mean that he is less receptive to coaching/mentoring from Deans or people appointed by him. It basically means to me that Deans could well have burnt a bridge here.

This assumes that Cooper was (or is) receptive to the coaching/mentoring from the Wallaby coaching staff. The lack of improvement in his defence could suggest otherwise. Having said that we can only guess at what the dynamics are like within the Wallaby camp.

 

[MrMouse]

Gnostic, call a spade a spade and be more direct. You want to say MrMouse has "no understanding of group dynamics or individual psychology, and does not acknowledge the effects of such statements on the standing of the organsiation [sic]" Say it. It'll feel better. Might be construed as public criticism though

Different industries and job roles function better with different management styles, and the sporting industry IS different to the financial industry, your company's HR department etc etc. Horses for courses.

I don't know Cooper's individual psychology any more than you do. I pointed out that there is a very real possibility that for the sake of the group dynamic Deans' comments were necessary, not inflammatory. You do not have the knowledge to argue against that point (nor have you really tried beyond a blanket statement).

Given the current public standing of both the ARU and Wobs coaching staff at present, very little could have significant NEGATIVE impact on their standing. Talkback probably supports it, broadsheets don't care, and the fans are grateful that someone's addressing the elephant in the room. Relatively speaking, only a small minority of stakeholders CARE about its impact on the organisation's standing, let alone think it's negative.

IF, and it's a big if, Cooper resents bagging him it won't necessarily work to the detriment of their working relationship. They're not mates. They're not even colleagues. Deans is his manager, and you have to be able to take criticism from your boss. IF he resents him it might push him to prove Deans wrong. IF we follow every negative strain of thought and arrive at Cooper being unable to work with Deans, his staff, or any specialist coaches he appoints then HE WON'T BE A WALLABY. Simple.

At the end of the day, as Groucho said, it wasn't even a bollocking. It's a fun distraction to argue about this stuff but not really on the same scale as the disinterest in competing at the ruck or any other area of the rugby field shown by Aus A v Munster.

 

[Crow]

Very funny that some posters want to see Pro sports people managed differently than any other group. They have no understanding of group dynamics or individual psychology, and do not acknowledge the effects of such statements on the standing of the organsiation.

Because it's a very different career to what most people experience. Like performers and politicians, their professional life is played out in the public eye. So yes, they do require different management.
Everything that these players and the coaches do affects the standing of the organisation. To whit: "This is the worst wallabies side I've ever seen."

If Cooper resents Deans public bagging of him, he isn’t going to say it to anybody but his closest friends, but resentment like that will mean that he is less receptive to coaching/mentoring from Deans or people appointed by him. It basically means to me that Deans could well have burnt a bridge here.

Given that Cooper has already demonstrated that he is unreceptive to people attempting to improve his defence, this is a risk/reward statement. Deans has previously been very supportive of all of his players, even when others are calling for them to be tarred and feathered.

 

[barbarian]

Come off it Gnostic. You think Robbie should manage the Wallabies the same way someone manages a KFC? These guys are highly paid public figures, celebrities even. They cop it publicly from the press and fans every week. You can't say the same for the bloke in the mail room. The group dynamics in a rugby team are very different to the dynamics in an office, as anyone who plays Saturday park footy can attest. The two situations cannot be compared.

If Quade DOES resent the comment (and it has obviously been made privately on many occassions to boot), the best reaction would be to work harder to prove him wrong. If he shuns Deans and everyone associated with him he clearly doesn't have the spine needed for test match rugby.

 

[I like to watch]

If Cooper resents Deans public bagging of him, he isn’t going to say it to anybody but his closest friends, but resentment like that will mean that he is less receptive to coaching/mentoring from Deans or people appointed by him. It basically means to me that Deans could well have burnt a bridge here.

Your clutching, on the same basis RD can never drop him either, cos QC (Quade Cooper) would resent that as well.
You are forgetting that not only does the softcock not tackle,he has no shame about it.
Remember the HK test, he made 2 out of 9 attempts.
How does QC (Quade Cooper) handle this? he trumpets to the world about being hard & ruthless for the next week.Not the sounds of someone who has acknowledged they need to improve a lot with part of their game.
Sounds to me that QC (Quade Cooper) reads & listens to press about him, more than he listens to team management/ team meetings.Maybe this time QC (Quade Cooper) will absorb what is being said to him.

 

[Godfrey]

People aren't inferring these things JUST from his tweets solely....the tweets kinds just put the icing on the cake.

Hence the other thing that I mentioned re: tackling/contract negotiations



LOL

Are you thick? I was responding to comments that were solely about his tweets. You even quoted Scarfman's response where, although he was defending his position, it was clear the converstaion was about Quade's tweets and not the deeper, ongoing discussion. You have a tendency to very argumentatively jump the gun.

 

[Gnostic]

Mouse, do not take this personally, but if you want to be a successful manager you will have to learn a few things.

1. You do not have to like your staff or be liked. It fact it can be a hinderance as you can avoid decisions to maintain that first. Respect however is an absolute must and must be both ways.
2. Everything you do to manage the staff must be done to better the output/performance of said staff.
3. Doing something to make you feel better may not achieve point 2, and if it is an ill-informed outburst or slip of the tongue it may well be detrimental to 2 and the respect factor mentioned in point 1.

Unknown dynamics in the "team" or industry are irrelevant to these points, they are consistent across any management of people from the class room to the board room. You admit that Cooper is his manager and not his mate then Deans must act like it, and his statement was not consistent with good managerial practice. As the national coach he must display these managerial skills and diplomacy to achieve the best out of his people.

As for the standing of the team and ARU I am sure that Barbarian et al were arguing on another thread that the Brand is fine and dandy.

 

[barbarian]

But Gnostic where does dropping a player fit into your argument? THAT is where the Rugby side is most different- employees are demoted on a weekly basis. That is done very publicly. So if Deans drops Quade, how does it "better the output/performance of said staff"?

Well, the answer I suppose is it gives him a kick up the arse and he will go away and work hard. He may get angry at the coach for making the decision, but he is a big boy and this is the real world. In the long run he will be better for it. How is that result any different from giving him a serve in the press?

 

[fatprop]

How can anything Deans said be considered "bagging", a bit of honesty and challenge isn't bad as far as I care

 

[Gnostic]

Quite simply dropping is the marker that the individual hasn't achieved the KPIs required to maintain their position. That is simply different to saying that the manager believes the individual lacks the will/ability or drive to perform to the required level.

Most were critical of how the Peter Hewat situation was handled with him talking to a team mate regarding Hewat's non selection, and most have been critical in the varying instances of players discovering there non-selection in a squad via the media. This is no different. I haven't said anywhere that Cooper didn't need or shouldn't have been called to task about the need for him to improve massively, but like I said and gave example of it, a good manager will not debase or deride a person under their tutelage in public but will say the problem has been identified and acknowledged, KPIs (or equivalent) set and if they are not met there are known and obvious consequences. To public say that the manager doubts the individual's "will" is counter productive.

 

[barbarian]

It is very different. Cooper has probably been told this privately on many occassions. Hewat was never told anything.

I can't be bothered keeping up this argument. All this talk of management techniques and KPIs, FFS! This is the kind of softness that has permiated our ranks, and sees us lack the toughness and aggression to compete internationally. Fuck Quade's psychological state, I just want him to tackle!

A bit of old school 'harden the fuck up' gets my support. That is the last I will say on this.

 

[Scotty]

Very funny that some posters want to see Pro sports people managed differently than any other group. They have no understanding of group dynamics or individual psychology, and do not acknowledge the effects of such statements on the standing of the organsiation.

If Cooper resents Deans public bagging of him, he isn’t going to say it to anybody but his closest friends, but resentment like that will mean that he is less receptive to coaching/mentoring from Deans or people appointed by him. It basically means to me that Deans could well have burnt a bridge here.

Well, since Gnostic seems to know everything, why don't we put him in charge of the national team. Actually it appears he is also qualified to lead the ARU at the same time.

Gnostic you are seriously suffering from a complete bias against one individual, and it clouds your judgement on just about everything. Robbie Deans is not the devil, no matter how much you want to believe it, or convince others to believe it. I for one think it is getting more than a little tiresome that you and RedsHappy seem to relate everything that goes wrong in a team to one individual.

But clearly I don't have any understanding of group dynamics or individual psychology, so what would I know?

 

[Richo]

For fuck's sake, Deans didn't "debase and deride" Quade Cooper. He gave an honest and forthright answer on an issue of critical significance to the team's performance. It's hugely obvious how much Quade cares about his public persona so I'm hardly surprised that Deans would use such a tactic to escalate pressure on the guy to perform. Using the media is not an uncommon tactic of coaches in professional sports. Phil Jackson, perhaps the most successful coach in NBA history, frequently uses the media in similar ways -- his rationale is that players get paid so much and are such celebrities that sometimes using the public is the most effective way to hammer a point home.

 

[Richo]

Also, you can't trash Deans for not dealing with the team's problems and then rip into him when he tries to deal with them.