Quade Cooper and Summer Digressions

[Scotty]

Especially since there are some good tackling backs in the Wallabies (Barnes, Turner, Ant Finger, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Genia, Burgo etc.). Even if the coaches aren't addressing it in the right way, he could seek some help from other players who might speak his language a little more.

Judging by his tweets, I'm not sure anyone else speaks 'Qwade'

 

[Bullrush]

If Scarfy is talking about the loss that Quade was involved in, then it has well and truly been 48 hours.

Should we expect them to be in a state of depression for the whole week after a loss? When are they allowed to start enjoying themselves again and start looking towards the next game?

He's part of a team Scotty. If he only feels the loss when he's actually on the field playing then add that to his tackling as something to fix.

 

[farva]

Wow people change their minds quickly!

We were just 3 months ago considering that our flyhalf woes had been solved. We were also in a mad panic about the NRL snatching Quade and that he would be the most important player to the Wallabies leading into the world cup next year.

As far as I am concerned, he is still important.
He should also be benched now to try and drum into him that he needs to tackle at this level. It will be a wake up call, and doing it when we are playing the EOYT games is the best time to do it. He will have had the wake up call by the time the 3N comes around next year. If he doesnt then we need to consider other options.

 

[Godfrey]

I'm pretty impressed that people are able to infer someone's entire emotional state on the basis of one or two tweets. It's about the same level of evidence and investigation that women's magazines use to create headlines.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

He's still our best option at 10 on attack, because in the games where we haven't had him, we've looked bloody pedestrian. It all comes back to the total value to the team. If he can even marginally improve that defence then its an open and shut case. I've said it several times before, but I'll say it again: we would not have won in HK were it not for QC (Quade Cooper).

But oh, that woeful defence. Man up Quade, it's make or break time for you fella.

 

[Bullrush]

Wow people change their minds quickly!

We were just 3 months ago considering that our flyhalf woes had been solved. We were also in a mad panic about the NRL snatching Quade and that he would be the most important player to the Wallabies leading into the world cup next year.

As far as I am concerned, he is still important.
He should also be benched now to try and drum into him that he needs to tackle at this level. It will be a wake up call, and doing it when we are playing the EOYT games is the best time to do it. He will have had the wake up call by the time the 3N comes around next year. If he doesnt then we need to consider other options.

Just for the record...I've always been skeptical. He was being considered as the most important player for the RWC and he never played against the best team in the world?!?!

I said that if I was JON, I would have put my best offer to him and told him that it would drop by $50k every time he went back to Eels to negotiate.

He may become a great fly-half but I think he's got quite a ways to go yet before being mentioned in the same breath as Carter, Larkham, Wilkinson, Mehrtens etc.

 

[Ruggo]

That still leaves the issue of who to play at fullback. I see no stand up candidates who have the same toolset as KB (Kurtley Beale) in the current touring squad.

Hynes. Not as flash but every bit ellusive.

As for Qude and his defence. When Austin released the stats for the Wales game, Coopers defence looked to have improved. Then it was bloody woeful against England. Consistancy is his isssue. He can tackle front on but is extremely inconsistant. I don't think he will be droped but if he plays like a turstile in the future, I would not be suprised to see Robbie drag him early. Italy is a great chance for him to right some wrongs.

Don't hide him in defence. That goes for both the Reds and the Wallabies.

I think people are under estimating Quade's ability to improve. This year has been nothing but improvement from Quade.

 

[Crow]

I'm pretty impressed that people are able to infer someone's entire emotional state on the basis of one or two tweets. It's about the same level of evidence and investigation that women's magazines use to create headlines.

When world class psychologists gather, they gather at greenandgoldrugby.com.au

 

[Bullrush]

I'm pretty impressed that people are able to infer someone's entire emotional state on the basis of one or two tweets. It's about the same level of evidence and investigation that women's magazines use to create headlines.

I'm impressed that you can come to the conclusion that QC (Quade Cooper)'s tweets are all that's considered when people analyse him.

And who cares about his emotional state?!?! If I was a Wallaby supporter, I'd just want him to make more tackles.

 

[Gnostic]

I was astonished by what Deans said of Cooper.

As a manager it is never good for any senior officer of an organisation to publicly criticise (not critique) a junior member of the organisation. It lowers the trust within the organisation and lowers the esteem of the organisation from the point of view of others observing the organisation.

It was undiplomatic for Deans to say what he did, how he did. For such a supposedly good people manager it was very poor. What he should have said, was something like “Yes QC (Quade Cooper) does have some rather obvious defensive issues. We are aware of them and so is he. He has been told that defensive requirements at test level are very onerous and his performance must improve.” End of story. It isn’t spin it is straight forward without belittling or making the issue personal. Instead what did he say, he questioned the “will” of Cooper to improve, basically saying publicly he doesn’t believe that Cooper has any ticker. How does this look for the organisation who just signed QC (Quade Cooper) to a huge deal and Deans himself who endorsed the move?

Another line of thought is perhaps this public attack on Cooper is actually a cover for Deans and a diversion from the fact that it Deans and Co who have failed him and the team as a whole.

The facts are inescapable, Cooper has always been a poor defender, he was selected with that firmly in everyone's minds. What has changed is that teams are now targeting him closely. Cooper must as has been commented by all and sundry improve his defence to be considered as a long term prospect at test level, and the team must be selected and appropriate tactics created to deal with the limitation his selection will bring.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

He may become a great fly-half but I think he's got quite a ways to go yet before being mentioned in the same breath as Carter, Larkham, Wilkinson, Mehrtens etc.

He's not the second coming of Ella, Noddy or Bernie or anything like it at the moment, but when I look across our 5/8 options right now, he is the clear stand out in most areas of the game.

 

[barbarian]

Another line of thought is perhaps this public attack on Cooper is actually a cover for Deans and a diversion from the fact that it Deans and Co who have failed him and the team as a whole.

:yay :yay :yay

Vintage Gnostic. I love it.

I have actually heard a rumour that the Robbie Deans talked Prince William into proposing to Kate Middleton, all so he could get the British Press off his back and the Wallabies off the back pages. What a cunning manouvre.

Or maybe he just gave Quade a bit of a rocket because he needs a massive kick up the arse. Quade clearly cares a lot about the public perception of himself, and this may be the perfect way to shock him into action. He is not merely a 'junior member of the organisation' (what is he a secretary?), he is a very public figure earning hundreds of thousands of dollars. A bit of public flak should do him some good, especially coming from somebody who he respects.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I was astonished by what Deans said of Cooper.

As a manager it is never good for any senior officer of an organisation to publicly criticise (not critique) a junior member of the organisation. It lowers the trust within the organisation and lowers the esteem of the organisation from the point of view of others observing the organisation.

It was undiplomatic for Deans to say what he did, how he did. For such a supposedly good people manager it was very poor. What he should have said, was something like “Yes QC (Quade Cooper) does have some rather obvious defensive issues. We are aware of them and so is he. He has been told that defensive requirements at test level are very onerous and his performance must improve.” End of story. It isn’t spin it is straight forward without belittling or making the issue personal. Instead what did he say, he questioned the “will” of Cooper to improve, basically saying publicly he doesn’t believe that Cooper has any ticker. How does this look for the organisation who just signed QC (Quade Cooper) to a huge deal and Deans himself who endorsed the move?

Another line of thought is perhaps this public attack on Cooper is actually a cover for Deans and a diversion from the fact that it Deans and Co who have failed him and the team as a whole.

The facts are inescapable, Cooper has always been a poor defender, he was selected with that firmly in everyone's minds. What has changed is that teams are now targeting him closely. Cooper must as has been commented by all and sundry improve his defence to be considered as a long term prospect at test level, and the team must be selected and appropriate tactics created to deal with the limitation his selection will bring.

You are either spot on Gnostic or the man is a genius. As a manager myself, I certainly wouldn't be bagging any of my staff publically, but we don't know what goes on inside the Wallaby camp. This could be a psychological ploy by Deans to get him to lift his game on D. I would imagine that there have been some private discussions between them and perhaps Deans is exasperated by it all. There is precedent in this regard in professional sport: there have been champion teams who have had very difficult relationships with their coaches and still won. Think of the Nuci led Brumbies. Now that success generally can't sustain itself, but who here thinks that Deans will be coaching the Wobs after October next year?

In a sense, it could bind the team together and rally the boys around Quade. Just a thought.

 

[Crow]

I was astonished by what Deans said of Cooper.

As a manager it is never good for any senior officer of an organisation to publicly criticise (not critique) a junior member of the organisation. It lowers the trust within the organisation and lowers the esteem of the organisation from the point of view of others observing the organisation.

It was undiplomatic for Deans to say what he did, how he did. For such a supposedly good people manager it was very poor. What he should have said, was something like “Yes QC (Quade Cooper) does have some rather obvious defensive issues. We are aware of them and so is he. He has been told that defensive requirements at test level are very onerous and his performance must improve.” End of story. It isn’t spin it is straight forward without belittling or making the issue personal. Instead what did he say, he questioned the “will” of Cooper to improve, basically saying publicly he doesn’t believe that Cooper has any ticker. How does this look for the organisation who just signed QC (Quade Cooper) to a huge deal and Deans himself who endorsed the move?

Another line of thought is perhaps this public attack on Cooper is actually a cover for Deans and a diversion from the fact that it Deans and Co who have failed him and the team as a whole.

Garbage on both counts. Wayne Bennett does this stuff all the time, either himself or by proxy. I consider Bennett to be the epitome of the psychological manager, he's played mind games with his own team for as long as I can remember and almost always to good effect. It's obvious that some in the team have improved while Cooper has not. If what is required is a public kick up the ass, then I'm all for it.

 

[Groucho]

Wow people change their minds quickly!

We were just 3 months ago considering that our flyhalf woes had been solved. We were also in a mad panic about the NRL snatching Quade and that he would be the most important player to the Wallabies leading into the world cup next year.

As far as I am concerned, he is still important.
He should also be benched now to try and drum into him that he needs to tackle at this level. It will be a wake up call, and doing it when we are playing the EOYT games is the best time to do it. He will have had the wake up call by the time the 3N comes around next year. If he doesnt then we need to consider other options.

farva, the rugby fanboi world is full of drama queens.

Cooper doesn't need sacking, although I agree it may be time for a benching. What Cooper needs is his technique fixing, since it has the capability to lose tests, since he will now be targeted.

It is inconceivable that Cooper can't learn to tackle. We know he can. He frequently makes dominant tackles from certain positions, particularly cover. He must learn to tackle head-on. Which, ironically, is the easiest form of tackle to learn how to do.

 

[DPK]

As a manager myself, I certainly wouldn't be bagging any of my staff publically, but we don't know what goes on inside the Wallaby camp.

But this is a football team, not a business. I know some of us will argue that with professionalism the players should be treated like any other employee, but I disagree.

Cooper has previously said he likes playing under pressure as he believes it brings the best out of him. Well, either this was all talk or we may see some improvements now that Deans has pointed the spotlight firmly on him (it already was on G&GR, but we're not really a good indicator of public opinion abroad).

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

But this is a football team, not a business. I know some of us will argue that with professionalism the players should be treated like any other employee, but I disagree.

Cooper has previously said he likes playing under pressure as he believes it brings the best out of him. Well, either this was all talk or we may see some improvements now that Deans has pointed the spotlight firmly on him (it already was on G&GR, but we're not really a good indicator of public opinion abroad).

I hear you and you could make the argument that other professions aren't quite so public, but rugby is a profession nonetheless. I guess we'll find out how well Quade plays under pressure, because there is a shitload of it on him now.

 

[MrMouse]

Gnostic, first, whilst these are professional sports that does not make them an identical workplace to any other organisation. Second, it is not uncommon if all other avenues have been explored, short of sacking, to publicly chastise/criticise a worker/player. A written warning that deplorable defence is unacceptable conduct and any further incidence will result in your sacking does NOT help a footballer. In this instance, it is entirely possible that with considerable misgivings within the camp the only option Deans had to prevent morale dropping further was public criticism.

It is also possible that he gauged that with this individual, the strongest boost and focus would come from extrinsic pressure.

I don't think anyone has questioned the truthfulness of the comments, or that QC (Quade Cooper) has issues in that department.

You agree with Deans' assertion that Cooper has to improve his defence "to be considered as a long term prospect" yet still somehow Deans is creating a diversion? I really do hope your shrink knows how paranoid you are.

We don't know the individuals, we don't know the camp, we don't know what management style works best. We can only judge abstractly from the side - based on RESULTS. So let's sit down at the end of the tour and decide whether or not it was appropriate to bollock a player in front of the media, based on results.

 

[Godfrey]

I'm impressed that you can come to the conclusion that QC (Quade Cooper)'s tweets are all that's considered when people analyse him.

And who cares about his emotional state?!?! If I was a Wallaby supporter, I'd just want him to make more tackles.

Actually, it's pretty obvious I was referring to what people were inferring from his tweets...nothing to do with the defence form/discussion. Perhaps a more careful read of the previous few posts to mine would have helped. You would have discovered that people were using a few tweets of his as evidence to suggest he doesn't care about the loss to England.

 

[Scarfman]

What I'm suggesting is that in the middle of a tour catastophe, he could do better than really look forward to touring around Florence.

Let's put it this way - I wouldn't have tweeted that because it would look like I care more about sightseeing than the game.

I also would spell the word "in" without an apostrophe.