Paddy O'Brien apologises just not to Australia

[PaarlBok]

What Watson is doing with SA referees isn't so good. His rankings are certainly unique, with Kaplan being number 1 and Marius Jonker being number 2 ranked for 2010. A bit strange I think as Jonker's international days are slowly ending. I think we should let the referee assessors bag out the referees.

Oh saw now the list of our referees. Agree on Jonker, he had some shockers in this years CC.

SARugby.com

Kaplan named leading SA ref
Thursday, November 19 Print | Send Submit Jonathan Kaplan, the most experienced Test referee in the world, has been ranked South Africa’s top referee for 2010 and heads the list on the South African Rugby Union’s National Panel, which was released this week.

Kaplan, who refereed his 50th Test earlier this year and received the Marriott Refereeing Achievement of the Year Award, has been placed in first place on a very strong National Panel. He is followed by seasoned Test referees Marius Jonker, Mark Lawrence and Craig Joubert.

André Watson, referees manager of SARU, is pleased that some of the world’s top referees are from South Africa.

“We have a strong group of referees at the top and apart from Jonathan, Marius, Mark and Craig, we’re expecting the other seven members of the National Panel to follow in their footsteps in years to come,” said Watson.

“Unfortunately we lost two referees on the National Panel due to retirements, namely Phillip Bosch and Willie Roos. One referee, Lourens van der Merwe (Free State), was promoted from the Provincial Panel.

“Six referees were rewarded for their hard work in the last year and have been promoted to the Provincial Panel. They are Quinton Immelman, Francois Groenewald (both WP), Pieter de Villiers, Rasta Rashivenga (both Lions) and Lusanda Jam (Border).

According to Watson, Ben Crouse (Blue Bulls) is the official reserve to the National Panel, which previously consisted of 12 referees.

Furthermore, two referees on the Contenders Squad will be official reserves for the Provincial Panel, namely Sewes Terblanche (Blue Bulls) and Francois de Bruin (Griquas).

“In an attempt to specialise even further, we will be introducing a regional specialised panel for Assistent Referees, to complement the existing National AR panel,” added Watson.

“We are also introducing a specialised primary school panel of nine or ten referees and will have the full panel in place for the Coca Cola Under-13 Craven Week next year.”

The SA Rugby Referee Panels for 2010 are:

National panel (Top 11) (In merit order)
Kaplan Jonathan (SARU)
Jonker Marius (SARU)
Lawrence Mark (SARU)
Joubert Craig (SARU)
Legoete Pro (SARU)
Peyper Jaco (SARU)
Jaftha Jason (SARU)
Berry Stuart (SARU)
Mayende Sindile (SARU)
Salmans Joey (SARU)
Van der Merwe Lourens (SARU)

Provincial Panel 14 (In merit order)
1. Crouse Ben (BB) # RESERVE TO TOP 12 PANEL
2. Sehlako Archie (Natal) #
3. Mdashe Mlungiseli (Valke) #
4. Kemp Matt (WP) #
5. Jonker Tiaan (Lions) #
6. Veldsman Francois (Boland) #
7. Maloni Bongani (Border) #
8. Burger Luke (BB) #
9. November Dilbert (SWD) *
10. Immelman Quinton (WP)
11. De Villiers Pieter (Lions)
12. Rashivenga Rasta (Lions)
13. Groenewald Francois (WP)
14. Jam Lusanda (Border)
# Varsity Cup Panel
* Reserve for Varsity Cup Panel

Contenders Squad (Top 2 ranked there-after in Alphabetical order)
Merit:
1. Terblanche Sewes (BB) RESERVES TO PROV. PANEL
2. De Bruin Francois (Griquas)

Alphabetical:
Aphane Jimmy (BB)
Bonaparte Rodney (EP)
Bosch Petri (Griquas)
Botha Andre (BB)
Lekhanye Martin (FS)
Killian Willie (Leopards)
Pretorius Francois (WP)
Retief Andries (Pumas)
Tucker Jocelyn (BB)
Van der Westhuizen Marius (WP)
Venter Jan (BB)

Candidates TBC

Primary School Panel:
Alphabetical:
Meyer Sakkie (FS)
Msileni Mtheleli (EP)
Remainder to be confirmed in 2010

Women’s Panel (merit):
Fortuin Roslyn (Boland)
Herselman Madel (Lions)
Daniels Eugenia (WP)
Smit Kim (Lions)
Njani Sipokazi (Border)
Jordaan Marlize (FS)
Claasen Eska (SWD)
Van der Heever Magda (Pumas)
Ludick Sanet (Leopards)

Contender’s/Academy Squad – women
Alphabetical:
Daniell Renee (BB)
Duthie Melany (Boland)
Hoffman Henchalla (SWD)
Scholtz Ilana (Lions)
Van Biljon Lize (Lions) – *fitness and availability TBC

Specialized National AR panel (Alphabetical):
Bosch Phillip (EP)
Breytenbach Stefan (Pumas)
Du Preez Christie (EP)
Manuels Linston (Boland)
Rossouw Reuben (Sharks) – Nominee IRB Panel
Wessels Cobus (SWD) – IRB Panel
Yamile Fumanekile (EP)
Van Zyl Marc (WP)

AR Nominees for Regional Squad (Course TBC confirmed in February 2010)
Oosthuizen Jannie (Lions)
Stander Gert (FS)
Johan Wasserman (FS)
Van Staden Sieg (Valke)
Buitenbach Attie (Limpopo)
Basie Ferreira (Griffons)
Gerhard Marais (Griffons)

National TMO panel (Alphabetical)
Coetzee Gerrie (FS)
Cupido Michael (Lions) – availability TBC
Fortuin JC (WP)
Meuwesen Johan (EP) – Super 14
Veldsman Shaun (Boland) – Super 14

National Selectors (Alphabetical)
Billett Hulet (SWD)
Immelman Dennis (WP)
Thuso Mngqibisa (WP)
Schoonwinkel Arrie (FS)
Yantolo Banks (Border)
Swart Balie (SARU) – coaches/players representation
(Ex officio members x3)

National Coaches (Alphabetical)
Greyvenstein Hendrik (WP)
Henning Tappe (SARU)
Naude Theuns (SARU)
Billett Hulet (SWD)

National Match Reviewers (Alphabetical)
Breytenbach Dries (Pumas)
Coetzer Gerrit (FS) – Converting from PR to MR – Trial
Hugo Jacques (EP)
Janse van Vuuren Theuns (Lions) – Converting from PR to MR – Trial
Menze Lusanda (EP)
O’Connell Allan (Natal)
Oelofse Pierre (Lions) – Converting from PR to MR – Trial

National Women’s Match Reviewers (Alphabetical)
De Villiers Eugene (Lions)
Hendricks Keith (Boland)

 

[chief]

What's the Primary School panel? I take it they are not developing 8 year olds into being referees.

 

[PaarlBok]

What's the Primary School panel? I take it they are not developing 8 year olds into being referees.

No its refs for the U13 Craven Week.

The TMO's you were talking about for schools was for the Craven Week tournaments. I forgot about them. They are televised live.

 

[chief]

I don't get it? They have TMO's for Under 13's games? And I'm guessing the referees who referee that are of a young age bracket say 18 or below?

 

[PaarlBok]

Sorry havent explain that well. We have Craven Weeks for U13s, U16s(Grant Khomo) & U18s (Academy Week mostly U17s preparing for next years big one) & then the main U18s one. The U18s main Craven Week week have live TV and TMOs.

Pretty sure they'll pick some experiense refs for the U13s. We do get young refs blowing in the normal Prymary Schools matches. A big rugby school like Paarl Gym use the WPRU ref union and he pick their refs for saturdays main game for the U18s. The Prymary School use local refs and my kid playing U11 even had a woman ref blowing their games.

Here is some pictures of her in action

the blond scrummie is my boy.

 

[Thomond78]

I think I can speak for all Australian rugby supporters when I say, 'we also love the scrum'. (At least we like today's wallaby version compared to the 07 one).

And, I'd have to say; credit to ye for coming back to the light.

 

[Sully]

I think I can speak for all Australian rugby supporters when I say, 'we also love the scrum'. (At least we like today's wallaby version compared to the 07 one).

And, I'd have to say; credit to ye for coming back to the light.

We never left!!! Some fuckhead turdbrained arsehole coaches did!!!

 

[TheRiddler]

I love the irony in Watson being suggested as the new refs head honcho in light of Paddy's scrum debacle.

I seem to recall a certain RWC Final in 2003 when a certain Mr Watson was pilloried (rightly or wrongly) for not picking up Australia's alleged illegal scrummaging techniques - and now is he is being suggested as answer to correct refereeing at the scrum.

As they used to say at school, discuss!

 

[Scarfman]

I think Andre got some scrums wrong that day. I can't be sure because I've never watched it - only saw it at the ground.

But he is easily the best ref I've ever seen. My favourite call of his: "lazy running."

 

[Scotty]

Well technically if the THP bores on the LHP, he's "boring out"

Which would seem to cause as much damage to your own scrum as the oppositions?

I think Andre got some scrums wrong that day. I can't be sure because I've never watched it - only saw it at the ground.

I think we were very lucky.

 

[Geronimo]

Interesting to see all the boys in PB's photos are all barefoot. Kids here today are not allowed to do that, must wear some sort of boots. It was barefoot back in my junior years until about u/9's

 

[Biffo]

Lastly, no idea which way the blame goes here, but when there are 26 scrums in a match, and going one way, there is not one single reset, and goig the other there is 100% resets, it's quite clear there is a serious problem. Either NZ used negative, penalty inducing tactics or Paddy was right to criticise Dickinson. Regardless of which way it was, the 13 minutes the Italians spent camped on our line was a blight on the game, and not the sort of action to induce more punters through the gates from rugby developing countries. I'm obviously biased, but why was NZ able to clear their ball 100% of the times with no problems and Italy 0%?

There is a simple answer. Perhaps the mob was (yet, yet again) wrong and NZ won the scrum war by a huge margin?

 

[Biffo]

I think I can speak for all Australian rugby supporters when I say, 'we also love the scrum'. (At least we like today's wallaby version compared to the 07 one).

Totally agree.

However, the irony of your first sentence will not get within the same universe as some members of our board, even though you explain it very nicely in your second.

 

[PaarlBok]

Interesting to see all the boys in PB's photos are all barefoot. Kids here today are not allowed to do that, must wear some sort of boots. It was barefoot back in my junior years until about u/9's

Our kids play barefoot in Prymary School (U7 to U13), togs from U14.

Any Saffer that plays rugby will tell you about playing barefoot in their younger days , specially those from the Inland areas. Luckily Paarl dont have frost. The small kids usually play the frost from the grass for the bigger boys.

 

[Biffo]

Terrific pics, PB. Thanks

 

[PaarlBok]

Terrific pics, PB. Thanks

Pleasure Oom Biff! Dont be to hard on my Kiwi friends specially MR, he sure is a special poster and not one we want to chase away.

 

[Biffo]

Terrific pics, PB. Thanks

Pleasure Oom Biff! Dont be to hard on my Kiwi friends specially MR, he sure is a special poster and not one we want to chase away.

Thank you for the reference for Mr Ridler I was going to present Mr Watson's case re RWC 2003 final (I have insider information) but did not out of respect to Mr Ridler.

 

[PaarlBok]

Ag Mr Ridler have it wrong here. Andre is also human and made mistakes on his day as a ref but this is about the job Paddy do at the moment.

Andre is excellent in my view in the same job for SA and sure will do the same in Paddy's job. Not sure if he'll want to move to Thommos muddy island. :nta: But then Gert Smal and Jean de Villiers have done that.

 

[Pfitzy]

I seem to recall a certain RWC Final in 2003 when a certain Mr Watson was pilloried (rightly or wrongly) for not picking up Australia's alleged illegal scrummaging techniques

That day Al Baxter knew if he fronted up he'd get towelled - he was still a rookie at international level. Woodman was the Pommy loosehead - a very good prop at the pointy end of a very good pack. What Baxter did was pack just behind the hooker's shoulders, and very low down against the hooker's ribs, almost underneath Cannon's torso. This made it very hard for Woodman to get a clean hit and exert his dominance. It did make it more likely that the scrum would collapse.

Note you don't have to reposition yourself very far away from what is the "normal" position. The smallest change would result in a loosehead over-reaching or otherwise being disrupted, though to be honest Woodman was good enough to compensate. Watson should have probably picked up Baxter for not being "square" before the engagement. Even if he had, Baxter could have just held off a little on the engage anyway.

Its a classic example of "if you don't like the rules, don't play!"

Well technically if the THP bores on the LHP, he's "boring out"

Which would seem to cause as much damage to your own scrum as the oppositions?

I can't really see any advantage in doing it. It does stop the loosehead attacking you on your pill as much, but it means you have less stability overall - unless your other front rowers are completely dominant (to the point of driving the other blokes back over their second row).

 

[TheRiddler]

Bif and PB

Where on earth did you get the idea I was a Kiwi? Actually a Pom that's been in Sydney for 10 Years and now a full blown Aussie citizen.

And I wasnt criticising Mr Watson, just stating the irony that a man that copped such a huge bagging over his refereeing of the scrums in the 2003 RWC final is now being seen as the answer to this latest scrum fiasco. I was actually at the final, proudly wearing my green and gold, much to the chagrin of the english army para sat next to me that bought my kiwi mate's ticket for a stupid amount of money. I'm sure he was about to smack me for being a traitor until he realised that the Poms had actually won, at which stage I was last seen heading out of the stadium with tears in my eyes, disconsolate with Australia's loss.