Paddy O'Brien apologises just not to Australia

[Sully]

I thought we had an unwritten rule that you could only bash the Ref when you win? I too have noticed the level of Ref bashing going through the roof and wonder what has started it. Maybe because we are losing more games than usual or maybe because we have a place to voice our comments. But it seems that people forget basic human nature. These guys are in it because they love rugby first and it just turned into a job they are good at. And they are good at it if not they would be running around in park rugby with the rest of us. Remember we all have off days and we all make mistakes, just ours don't get played over and over in slow mo or uploaded to youtube. Now if you ask me if Refs go into games with preconceived ideas about Teams I'll say of course they do! they do their homework just like the rest of us. Do they go into games trying to treat each team and player the same? Definately.

So for what it's worth from now on I will do my best, from now on, to stay out of discussions on Refereeing performances.

 

[cyclopath]

Sully,
I agree in principle, but I think if a ref has just been poor quality, it is quite legitimate to say so.
What I don't agree with is the accusation that some ref or other has "f***ed us over" in some sort of deliberate act, or that they cost us the match, which they probably seldom do.
It is very hard to argue against the premise that a lot of the current crop of international refs leave a fair bit to be desired.

 

[PaarlBok]

Thanks Paddy this will help our scrum this week against the Italianos. Expecting a penalty after each time John Smit land on his backside on saturday. :yay

 

[Pfitzy]

:nta:

I'm bloody confused. Let's take a step back here:

O'Brien said a review of match footage clearly indicated the Italian tighthead prop (Martin Castrogiavanni and later Salvatore Perugini) was "boring in" on the All Black loosehead and that Dickinson's repeated penalising of the New Zealanders was "completely wrong".

I can't remember ever having the tighthead bore in on me. In fact I don't think I've ever seen it, because most THPs worth their salt are either busy doing their impression of a concrete block on their own feed, or trying their best to pop the hooker's head off his shoulders when its the opposition's feed. Attacking outwards on the loosehead prop does nothing but expose you to the hooker, and allow him a better strike at his own ball. And if the scrum shifts sideways suddenly your hooker has to reach for it.

Am I missing something here?

I saw Red Beard's analysis on TSF, and that was enough for me. Paddy's going senile.

 

[Thomond78]

Kaplan isn't biased, he's just random. For a lot of his tenure, you've been under the cosh and he's been the lead non-Anzac ref, so you've just suffered more of it. Hell, against France this year, he penalised us for rucking the ball back in a ruck where everyone was on their feet because, apparently, it was on their side of the ruck!

Think it was Lewis not White in HK last year?

Paddy's been a disaster. A good ref is one you can't remember, so apply that same test to Paddy. Can you remember his predecessor?

 

[Moses]

As a Kiwi...

Welcome tg, we'll take anyone on TYS. You've got to do an awful lot wrong to get banned here, critical remarks about Aussies always gratefully received.

See Moses about getting an appropriate avatar.

Welcome tg, I've got a great avatar of Mealamu taking a punch

On Refs, how long till Walsh qualifies to be an Oz ref? Can't wait till he's adjudicating a NZ vs RSA 3N match, not that's he's got any baggage...

 

[chief]

Steve Griffiths was the old IRB referees manager. Did a hell of a lot better then Paddy. Bought refs to the game like Wayne Barnes, and really pushed forward with Andre Watson's selection in the finals over Paddy, which made Paddy angry probably. James Leckie's contract was not renewed, too make room for Walsh. However I doubt he will referee NZ vs SA. Would be classic, plus if they lose Paddy is open to criticism by PDV.

 

[Moses]

If this story is true it's a pretty piss-poor management effort from Paddy, can imagine how I'd be if my boss were to go to the media and tell the world that my performance yesterday was below par and it'd be undergoing retraining. Not exactly a classy HR effort on Paddy's part..

 

[chief]

It certainly isn't a good move. Could have all the unions demanding for apologies.

 

[Thomond78]

If this story is true it's a pretty piss-poor management effort from Paddy, can imagine how I'd be if my boss were to go to the media and tell the world that my performance yesterday was below par and it'd be undergoing retraining. Not exactly a classy HR effort on Paddy's part..

Hell with it, if the bould Stu felt like it, his contract of employment with the IRB is, I would presume, under Irish law, because the IRB is an Irish-registered company. So, you have his boss publicly slating him without giving him a chance to respond and lowering his standing in his profession. So, Stu, feel like suing the IRB and Paddy until their eyes bleed? How about injuncting them to keep Paddy away from reffing decisions? Because they have form on this, btw... http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ie/cases/IEHC/2005/H107.html&query=international+and+rugby+and+board&method=boolean.

 

[Spook]

THE INTERNATIONAL RUGBY BOARD
Huguenot House
35-38 St Stephen's Green
Dublin 2
IrelandTel: 00 353 1 240 9200
FAX: 00 353 1 240 9201

I'm writing a letter of complaint over O'Briens conduct. I urge you all you do the same.

 

[chief]

I'm sick of Paddy O'Brien, I too am writing a letter. Stu Dickinson is a top quality referee.

 

[gone]

As a Kiwi...

Welcome tg, we'll take anyone on TYS. You've got to do an awful lot wrong to get banned here, critical remarks about Aussies always gratefully received.

See Moses about getting an appropriate avatar.

Welcome tg, I've got a great avatar of Mealamu taking a punch

On Refs, how long till Walsh qualifies to be an Oz ref? Can't wait till he's adjudicating a NZ vs RSA 3N match, not that's he's got any baggage...

Thanks for the welcome - should have qualified that Kiwi bit by adding that I have been living in Sydney for the last 5 years and have been heavily involved on and off the field in that time with Gordon.

 

[Ash]

Think it was Lewis not White in HK last year?

Might've been. My memory is pretty average nowadays.

This in the Australian press this morning:

New Zealand coach Graham Henry said he was glad to have "some reality" at the scrum after the world referees' chief slammed Australian referee Stuart Dickinson's display in their match against Italy.

Paddy O'Brien, director of elite referees at the International Rugby Board, visited the All Blacks at their London hotel on Tuesday to tell them their complaints over the way in which Dickinson had policed the scrum in their 20-6 win in Milan last weekend were justified.

O'Brien, himself a New Zealander and a former Test referee, then took the even more extraordinary step of publicly saying Dickinson's repeated penalising of the All Blacks at the scrum was "completely wrong".

He also told the stuff.co.nz website: "We've got to be fair to teams. If the referee is not accurate we've got to put our hand up.

"We need to educate that referee and get him better, because that scrummaging on Saturday was not up to international standard."

Henry, speaking after announcing his team to play England at Twickenham this weekend, told reporters in London on Wednesday: "It's good to have some reality, some truthfulness. The scrum has been a problem for some time.

"If you get two teams who want to scrum, and scrum immediately, it makes for a good game of football."

Former Wales and British and Irish Lions coach Henry, added: "I'm sure the guys are pleased it's happened, I'm sure England are too.

"The guys do a lot of work during the week and they want to do it right (scrum) at the weekend and when it doesn't happen, it's a frustration.

"I'm pleased the issue has been brought to the surface and not swept under the carpet."

Wonder if it's a direct attempt by the IRB to look at scrums? Can see us going the way of league scrums.

And are the All Black coaching staff going to bury their heads in the sand over the fact that they were outscrummed?

 

[TheRiddler]

Thanks for the welcome - should have qualified that Kiwi bit by adding that I have been living in Sydney for the last 5 years and have been heavily involved on and off the field in that time with Gordon.

One more for the good guys :yay

 

[Biffo]

Wonder if it's a direct attempt by the IRB to look at scrums? Can see us going the way of league scrums.

Terrific observation, Ash. I have been half meaning to pose the same idea for a year or so but have not got round to it.

The "political" setting around the scrum now is remarkable similar to that around the league scrum in the late 1960s and through the 1970s.

I played and watched league while the scrum was a contest - and ferocious indeed. As the game became more "professional" (ha ha euphemism for pay going up) cheating at the scrum (and all over tha park) got worse and worse. Nothing the authorities tried could halt this movement. The scrum eventually became such a shambles that the authorities took one of the only two courses left - depower it. The alternative had been to abolish it.

Rugby scrums now, in all the competitions I see, are looking very much like the league scrums of 1970. The degeneration of the rugby scrum is following about the same pace as that the league scrum before its demise.

Yesterday I read the IRB stats on scrums. I forget the exact figure but something like 16 per cent of the 80 minutes of rugby games is taken up by scrums and something 40-50 percent of that is resets. Even an old front row forward can't applaud that.

The solution? I don't know. Paddy clearly don't know (hit the THP for "boring in on the opposing LH" is Paddy's fix :lmao:- ) The league people tried everything and failed. I shall be surprised if the rugby people do any better.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Interesting thoughts Biffo, however something only a SH fan can truly relate to. Up north they love the scrum. As far as many regions in France and Italy are concerned, rugby IS the scrum.

The solution - I dunno. I'm wondering if weight limits on front row forwards or something might be the answer. rugby players are much much stronger now than they were once and its' to the detriment of the game. If you compare the viewings of a match even as shortly back as the great AB team of 96/97 or the Wallaby teams of around 91-93, the games they were playing in were a far far better spectacle.

I thought they ELV's could have been a great step forward, if they were implmented properly, but sadly not.

 

[Scotty]

I think I can speak for all Australian rugby supporters when I say, 'we also love the scrum'. (At least we like today's wallaby version compared to the 07 one).

 

[PaarlBok]

OK I have give this Paddy critics on Dickheadson some second thoughts. Some poster here are very critical about Kaplans reffing ability but then they also are very crictical on Paddy for critizising Dickheadson. Now my question here is that would they been the same if Paddy was critizising Kaplan iso Dickheadson?

Remember its about the system. Myself find it very odd for Paddy going to the coach of the All Blacks and apologizing. That one leave a very bad taste here. Snor did the same about the same thing and has been shown the door.

 

[Biffo]

I found the article's reference to Paddy being "Invercargill based" very interesting. Does Paddy really base himself in Invercargill? Or is he planning to move there soon? If the latter, could he be trying, by this astonishing behaviour, to reduce the hostility of the environment to him when he arrives?