- Status
M
Mojoman
Guest
Insane favoritism to NZ?? Where was the insane favoritism post RWC 2007 Quarter-final against France? If I remember correctly Paddy's comments were along the lines of "NZ'ers have to grow up and get over it"Ash said:
As a Kiwi I just reckon it's very bizarre from Paddy (if he did say these things) and opens up Pandora's box. Surely there was a better way of doing this.
BTW I still reckon AB loosehead Crockett was outscrummed by the Italiano tight-head. Some of the 8 man shoves they had on us pushed us straight back..not up, not sideways but straight back. Now thats impressive.
M
Mojoman
Guest
I wouldn't put too much faith in Ratpoo's columns. Apart from a wanker, he's the biggest hater I've come across. Consistently writes anti-Henry tirades. He led the Robbie for AB coach chant..haven't heard much from him on that.thatguy said:
MajorlyRagerly
Trevor Allan (34)
Cheers scarfman... been a long time lurker, but I saw this happen and couldnt' help myself.
To call Paddy biased to the AB's and pandering to us is a bit rich, given that we, like pretty much so every other team, seem to think we dont' get the rub of the green. WC qf is a prime example of that.
What I actually think, is that the gamesmanship from the coaches, administrators, players in trying to play the referee's through the media is what is driving people (including me) away from the game. I barely post anywhere anymore as such a majority of posts simply go on and on and on about how their team was screwed by the ref. Alot of the good analysis which used to be out there is now lost, as people are so obsessed about the man in the middle.
Find me a match report thread on GAGR / TSF / Gwald where there wasn't a huge slagging off, of the referee's? Bet you can't (unless it was seperated to another thread!). I think it's a real shame, and I certainly don't think Paddy has done anybody (let alone NZ) any favours here. He should be sacked for his comments here.
Call me old school, but I still believe in play the ref, accept his decison and move on. Can't help but feel that players, coaches, administrators are just getting further and further away from that view & I don't like it. Of course there are failings in the current setup, but they need to be discused behind closed doors.
To call Paddy biased to the AB's and pandering to us is a bit rich, given that we, like pretty much so every other team, seem to think we dont' get the rub of the green. WC qf is a prime example of that.
What I actually think, is that the gamesmanship from the coaches, administrators, players in trying to play the referee's through the media is what is driving people (including me) away from the game. I barely post anywhere anymore as such a majority of posts simply go on and on and on about how their team was screwed by the ref. Alot of the good analysis which used to be out there is now lost, as people are so obsessed about the man in the middle.
Find me a match report thread on GAGR / TSF / Gwald where there wasn't a huge slagging off, of the referee's? Bet you can't (unless it was seperated to another thread!). I think it's a real shame, and I certainly don't think Paddy has done anybody (let alone NZ) any favours here. He should be sacked for his comments here.
Call me old school, but I still believe in play the ref, accept his decison and move on. Can't help but feel that players, coaches, administrators are just getting further and further away from that view & I don't like it. Of course there are failings in the current setup, but they need to be discused behind closed doors.
Welcome MR.
I agree mostly with what you say - the ref bashing is becoming a bit over the top. BUT, the current quality is poor. And the inconsistencies often within one match (e.g. Palu binned, Kearney not ) rankle with fans. I don't subscribe to the interpretations (of some) that bias or favouritism is a factor. I strongly doubt refs are intentionally biased.
I do, however think Paddy has royally fucked this up, and anyone here (or on TSF or anywhere else) trying to claim the high ground that "Dickenson (sic - it's actually Dickinson) robbed us" on the basis of what Paddy said needs their head read. If this was the most incompetent reffing display seen recently I'd be very surprised, so why open the whole system up to ridicule by apologising for it?
Hope you post here more.
Cheers
I agree mostly with what you say - the ref bashing is becoming a bit over the top. BUT, the current quality is poor. And the inconsistencies often within one match (e.g. Palu binned, Kearney not ) rankle with fans. I don't subscribe to the interpretations (of some) that bias or favouritism is a factor. I strongly doubt refs are intentionally biased.
I do, however think Paddy has royally fucked this up, and anyone here (or on TSF or anywhere else) trying to claim the high ground that "Dickenson (sic - it's actually Dickinson) robbed us" on the basis of what Paddy said needs their head read. If this was the most incompetent reffing display seen recently I'd be very surprised, so why open the whole system up to ridicule by apologising for it?
Hope you post here more.
Cheers
MajorlyRagerly
Trevor Allan (34)
Certainly agree with all of that.
I know 2/5ths of rock all about scrums, but I do know that good props play to the ref, which is what the Italian fella did. If he'd been penalised for it, he would have changed his style because he is that good. Crockett and Tialata got smashed, and if they feel better because of these comments, then they are going to go backwards more and more.
If they feel they learned something, which as an AB supporter I hope they did, then there is silver lining on what was one of the worst test matches I've watched.
I know 2/5ths of rock all about scrums, but I do know that good props play to the ref, which is what the Italian fella did. If he'd been penalised for it, he would have changed his style because he is that good. Crockett and Tialata got smashed, and if they feel better because of these comments, then they are going to go backwards more and more.
If they feel they learned something, which as an AB supporter I hope they did, then there is silver lining on what was one of the worst test matches I've watched.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
I think it's rare where a bad reffing performance affects a team such that it loses. But still - my stomach flips every time I see the name "Bryce Lawrence" in the ref column, just like yours might for Dickinson. To have Walsh back, even Honiss...
There may be the odd famous decision - like the infamous NZ QF vs France forward pass missed by Barnes. To which Paddy did indeed say get over it to the NZers. Or Dan Luger dropping the ball in 2000 yet the video ref awarding a try and ignoring other angles.
Then there's the odd shocking performances - Chris White in the HK Bled last year. O'Neill bleated long and loud about that performance, and got none of the attention that somehow Henry got from Paddy due to Dickinson.
The thing is, these games stick with you a lot longer than the games where your team may get the rub of the green, say like the Wallabies in Brisbane vs the Boks for the last few years. I guess my point is, most fans around the world will always think they are hard done by more often than not, even if that's not the case.
I know there's a fair argument to say that it isn't NZ favourtism (and really, it probably isn't - just frustration/ranting talking sorry) but here's the thing (from a third party POV): there's been A LOT worse performances than Dickinson in the Italy vs All Blacks game. It's just bizarre that Paddy picks that one. To top it off, it's a game that the All Blacks won, and one where there scrum was at times shunted straight backwards as well, as MR said.
MR; yeah (and welcome). The game is turning too much into soccer were there's all too much abuse and lack of respect for refs. And too much accountability is now being turned onto the ref. PdV is another that had a classic rant earlier this year too.
And that's why Tialata's tweets irk me a bit. They are just so self-righteous. How the hell did they organise for Tialata and co to meet with Paddy after the game anyway? I was sure that the whole article was rubbish until those tweets.
Here's hoping that Walsh rubs off on some Australian refs whilst he's sticking around in Sydney.
There may be the odd famous decision - like the infamous NZ QF vs France forward pass missed by Barnes. To which Paddy did indeed say get over it to the NZers. Or Dan Luger dropping the ball in 2000 yet the video ref awarding a try and ignoring other angles.
Then there's the odd shocking performances - Chris White in the HK Bled last year. O'Neill bleated long and loud about that performance, and got none of the attention that somehow Henry got from Paddy due to Dickinson.
The thing is, these games stick with you a lot longer than the games where your team may get the rub of the green, say like the Wallabies in Brisbane vs the Boks for the last few years. I guess my point is, most fans around the world will always think they are hard done by more often than not, even if that's not the case.
I know there's a fair argument to say that it isn't NZ favourtism (and really, it probably isn't - just frustration/ranting talking sorry) but here's the thing (from a third party POV): there's been A LOT worse performances than Dickinson in the Italy vs All Blacks game. It's just bizarre that Paddy picks that one. To top it off, it's a game that the All Blacks won, and one where there scrum was at times shunted straight backwards as well, as MR said.
MR; yeah (and welcome). The game is turning too much into soccer were there's all too much abuse and lack of respect for refs. And too much accountability is now being turned onto the ref. PdV is another that had a classic rant earlier this year too.
And that's why Tialata's tweets irk me a bit. They are just so self-righteous. How the hell did they organise for Tialata and co to meet with Paddy after the game anyway? I was sure that the whole article was rubbish until those tweets.
Here's hoping that Walsh rubs off on some Australian refs whilst he's sticking around in Sydney.
Biffo
Ken Catchpole (46)
Welcome, MR. You have done me a great favour, by leading me to review my attitude to referees. Until about six months ago I was a staunch believer in "the ref is always right". For many years, I had a standard response to those claiming a referee had cost their team a game: "Mr XX did not miss a tackle or drop a pass". Players decide the scoreboard outcomes, not referees, except in a negligible proportion of games. I somehow got sucked in to the criticism of referees recently.
I suspect that the comments above re gamesmanship by coaches and others is largely responsible for the outbreak in referee bashing. I suspect also that the ignorance of the Laws by commentators has a ripple effect on fans - for example, I really like Phil Kearns' insights and humour but his persistent references to "double movement" and "downward pressure" leave me thinking commentators should be compelled to complete a refereeing course before being allowed on air.
I suspect also that the administrators' - and I don't mean only those of the IRB - tinkering with the Laws results in many people not appreciating the rules under which a game is being played. I did find it difficult on a day when I watched three games played under different Laws.
However, the criticism of the referees that has arisen in recent months has not concerned the Laws which have been repeatedly changed. It has been about Laws which have not changed - dangerous tackles, scrums and so on. That is, to me, curious.
Re the Italy v NZ game, I found Paddy's comments quite astounding. I had been unable to agree with those who said Mr Dickinson should have awarded a penalty try - under which Law? O'Brien's (no honourific for him, he is not a referee) view that the Italian prop bored in repeatedly led me to ask the question so many have posed - should the stronger scrum be automatically handicapped through penalties against it?
I suspect that the comments above re gamesmanship by coaches and others is largely responsible for the outbreak in referee bashing. I suspect also that the ignorance of the Laws by commentators has a ripple effect on fans - for example, I really like Phil Kearns' insights and humour but his persistent references to "double movement" and "downward pressure" leave me thinking commentators should be compelled to complete a refereeing course before being allowed on air.
I suspect also that the administrators' - and I don't mean only those of the IRB - tinkering with the Laws results in many people not appreciating the rules under which a game is being played. I did find it difficult on a day when I watched three games played under different Laws.
However, the criticism of the referees that has arisen in recent months has not concerned the Laws which have been repeatedly changed. It has been about Laws which have not changed - dangerous tackles, scrums and so on. That is, to me, curious.
Re the Italy v NZ game, I found Paddy's comments quite astounding. I had been unable to agree with those who said Mr Dickinson should have awarded a penalty try - under which Law? O'Brien's (no honourific for him, he is not a referee) view that the Italian prop bored in repeatedly led me to ask the question so many have posed - should the stronger scrum be automatically handicapped through penalties against it?
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
So which ref is the worst DickheadSon or Kaplan? Wait till you get a NH ref like we had all season. Penalize when you go backwards in the scrum, penalize when your scrum going forward, penalise for holding on in a ruck, then penalize for going over a ruck. All confusing but blame it on the rules and not the refs (specially if you losing) :lmao:.Ash said:
C
chief
Guest
Dickinson at least shows consistency with his rulings. Kaplan is just too one sided. On the promising side it appears Wayne Barnes is now staking his claim as the worlds best referee, despite his blunder in 07. I think Deans needs to publicy bash refs to get the Paddy O'Brien apology. It appears that's what has to be done. For tiaalata to tweet that is inappropriate, and a complete joke. Paddy has now set the precident for players to bash ref. I kind of wish Australia didn't have the class to keep ref bashing to a minimum, then some referees will certainly not be included.
You guys are reading it all wrong - Paddy hates NZers - and he hates himself for being born as one. He knows this will make it harder for the AB's going forward to have any chance of a decent fair ref, especially from his school of fuckwit tools with coke bottle glasses and two left feet on stubby legs.
Australians you should all rejoice, Paddy's fucked us again...
Australians you should all rejoice, Paddy's fucked us again...
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Well this ref thing MR has spot on and I'll appoint him to ref me critizing refs. Fact is they all make mistakes and they tend to cancell out at the end of the day. Pretty easy to zoom in only when you got the short end of the stick and forgot when you have the advantage when his discition was wrong for the opposition.chief said:
but then we all are human and tend to judge that way. MR has checked me out many a time and I try to use this with my kid in his sport also. It works for me but then when I watch a test I cant help myself swearing at the ref. Last night I did but I wont post here that judgement, heat of the moment.
Biffo
Ken Catchpole (46)
Scorz said:
In RWC 1999 Paddy refereed France v Fiji. He made two astonishing decisions: (1) awarding a try to France when one of its players grounded the ball one metre beyond the deadball line (2) awarding a try to France after a movement in which two passes exceeded five metres forward - and yes, two the offending French players both threw the ball forward. Fiji should have won. Paddy was so distraught when confronted with what he had done that he did not referee again for 18 months, during which he had constant psychological counselling.
- Status