Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rebel man]

I can understand your argument. At one point I would have agreed with you on a full home and away schedule of 22 games. But my position has evolved thanks largely to the ever mounting body of work around player welfare particularly that of CTE and other traumatic brain injury conditions related to the nature of collision sports. And while we can never truly eliminate them things like work load and exposure can help mitigate. This is why I've walked back the number of games to 16-18 games a season.

It's something I think will be a major issue in the near future in the NH as well. And not only just from player welfare. I think the soon to be Pro16 will need to decide it's perfect season pretty soon with the addition of 2 more SA squads as well as the potential inclusion of the Jaguares. A big complaint about the Pro 14 has been the significant fall away in quality during both the November and 6Ns Test windows. Which has directly impacted upon the leagues ability to leverage its overall quality when at full strength to the broader marketplace. Now with 16 potentially 17 teams they will need to decide whether a shorter schedule featuring their best possible talent is more beneficial than the status quo. Shorter season of high quality Rugby are worth at least as much as drawn out seasons with varying quality.

But after the season they go play club footy or previously in the NRC it’s not like they are immune to contact in those comps


As I have said many times a longer season doesn’t mean that the same players play all 22 weeks. Players will need a rest and have time off like they do in England and this will help player development and will help build deeper squads as more players will get an opportunity at the top level. More and more you see players walk out on Super Rugby as there is little opportunity for them then we are forced to then try and develop a new lot of players to push for spots within the 23.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I can't see them ending.

They are the quid pro quo for the End of Year Tours that generate a lot of money for the Northern Hemisphere unions. This year will be tricky again with COVID but I expect from 2022 they will be back to normal.

I would argue it has not suppressed our domestic value anywhere near as much as the revenue it generates.

There is absolutely no way any SANZAAR country is going to try and get rid of them. They are essential for their finances.

There is some speculation that with the acquisition of 14% of the 6Ns and now their attention turning to SA Rugby and CVC showing interest in SH Rugby that they may be looking at some kind of Nations Championship concept in place. That might be the only way the November window may disappear. But it's highly unlikely.

 

[Derpus]

Or how much longer will the Southern tours continue, already speculation France will be understrength. Something has to give sooner or later, what is the appetite up North for them to continue.

That would free a month in the schedule, and yes its a revenue boost for us. But how much revenue has it cost in suppressing your domestic value.

France have sent an understrength team south since forever. We should base none of our decisions off what France do because France make fucking stupid decisions.

 

[kiap]

If we play a 22 game season then we still need players sticking to a maximum of around 15 games of that season. Test players are already at the maximum limit over a year.

Ireland actually measure it by minutes. For all test+pro matches, their key players averaged a tad under 1500 minutes for the 2018-19 season. Being a pre-RWC year that's on the low side for this cohort, particularly compared to a Lions season.

These guys do not all play 80 every single match, obviously -- particularly the forwards. So I divide by 60 minutes to translate that to a round figure of 25 games, say around 7-8 tests and 17-18 pro club games per player.

 

[kiap]

Here's the summary of the top players' minutes for all home nations from 2018-19, split into their three levels of competition.

(This is for players with 7 to 9 caps during the season, to show the player management approach for each team’s key players)

Ireland, Scotland and Wales have similar total minutes. England play an extra game or two of both test and club.

I'd say Australia would've been closer to England (pre-covid) with perhaps more tests and not quite as many club games, but I haven't looked for the data.

 

[Rebel man]

Ireland actually measure it by minutes. For all test+pro matches, their key players averaged a tad under 1500 minutes for the 2018-19 season. Being a pre-RWC year that's on the low side for this cohort, particularly compared to a Lions season.

These guys do not all play 80 every single match, obviously -- particularly the forwards. So I divide by 60 minutes to translate that to a round figure of 25 games, say around 7-8 tests and 17-18 pro club games per player.

But the idea of a longer seasons isn’t to keep flogging the same players. A longer season provides more opportunities to your entire squad you have to build depth to be successful it keeps more players engaged in your program as opposed to not seeing any minutes and looking to leave

 

[Derpus]

But the idea of a longer seasons isn’t to keep flogging the same players. A longer season provides more opportunities to your entire squad you have to build depth to be successful it keeps more players engaged in your program as opposed to not seeing any minutes and looking to leave

Doubt this would happen, though. Unless you mandated a maximum number of games or minutes per player.

Otherwise, incentive to regularly play your best team is too strong.

 

[Dan54]

But the idea of a longer seasons isn’t to keep flogging the same players. A longer season provides more opportunities to your entire squad you have to build depth to be successful it keeps more players engaged in your program as opposed to not seeing any minutes and looking to leave

That is right, you have to have a real big squad. Look let's be honest I doubt whether Australia (or NZ) are going to have enough depth in our lifetimes to be running big (especially seperate) comps that plays during international season. Fellas there is a reason that Wales have shrunk their number of teams, and amalgamated some clubs. The reality is unless there is a bllody big number of billionaires that don't mind burning money, we not going to be able to afford to have enough players of the quality that is needed.

 

[Rebel man]

That is right, you have to have a real big squad. Look let's be honest I doubt whether Australia (or NZ) are going to have enough depth in our lifetimes to be running big (especially seperate) comps that plays during international season. Fellas there is a reason that Wales have shrunk their number of teams, and amalgamated some clubs. The reality is unless there is a bllody big number of billionaires that don't mind burning money, we not going to be able to afford to have enough players of the quality that is needed.

Exactly the money in the game is getting out of hands and players salaries are hurting the profitability of the game.

 

[Rebel man]

Doubt this would happen, though. Unless you mandated a maximum number of games or minutes per player.

Otherwise, incentive to regularly play your best team is too strong.

But the insensitive is there to have you best side available come finals and if you burn them out in the regular season you cut your nose off to spite your face. Also you would probably see centrally contracted players have similar conditions as they do in the north

 

[Rugbynutter39]

That is right, you have to have a real big squad. Look let's be honest I doubt whether Australia (or NZ) are going to have enough depth in our lifetimes to be running big (especially seperate) comps that plays during international season. Fellas there is a reason that Wales have shrunk their number of teams, and amalgamated some clubs. The reality is unless there is a bllody big number of billionaires that don't mind burning money, we not going to be able to afford to have enough players of the quality that is needed.

More content, better opportunity to get more broadcast and gate money to cover extra depth required but that depends on extra games attracting appropriate extra value and also would need to be done as part of negotiation of next broadcast deal.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Originally it was supposed to launch this year. But then Covid happened.

Ah I thought that was the case and hence thought Japanese rugby on Stan now get to watch was the new competition.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Some progress on the SRTT front with our Covid Response minister revealing in parliament that there's only been one case this year originating in Aus, and only "a few dozen" since the borders were closed on 19/03/20.

Officials are currently working through how a TT bubble would work from our end (your gov would first need to lift the foreign travel ban imposed on 20/03/20*) but I think provided they find a way to screen out anyone who's been in a hotspot (whether domestic or third-country) within a reasonable period prior to arrival, it'd get widespread public support esp if made fully reciprocal i.e. kiwis can go spend a week or two on the GC without having to go into MIQ on return.

* Edit: it'd also be helpful if your man Dutton would stop with the "trash" talk, though I'm sure he'll be pleased to know that one such piece was permanently "taken out" by our Police the week before last.

There's already political & scientific backing so wouldn't take much for public support to become impossible for NZ gov to ignore. Whether there's time for that to occur in time for May & June remains to be seen & of course all it takes is for another outbreak in e.g. Auckland or Melbourne to throw everything into chaos.

 

[Dan54]

Some progress on the SRTT front with our Covid Response minister revealing in parliament that there's only been one case this year originating in Aus, and only "a few dozen" since the borders were closed on 19/03/20.

Officials are currently working through how a TT bubble would work from our end (your gov would first need to lift the foreign travel ban imposed on 20/03/20*) but I think provided they find a way to screen out anyone who's been in a hotspot (whether domestic or third-country) within a reasonable period prior to arrival, it'd get widespread public support esp if made fully reciprocal i.e. kiwis can go spend a week or two on the GC without having to go into MIQ on return.

* Edit: it'd also be helpful if your man Dutton would stop with the "trash" talk, though I'm sure he'll be pleased to know that one such piece was permanently "taken out" by our Police the week before last.

There's already political & scientific backing so wouldn't take much for public support to become impossible for NZ gov to ignore. Whether there's time for that to occur in time for May & June remains to be seen & of course all it takes is for another outbreak in e.g. Auckland or Melbourne to throw everything into chaos.

Been reading same stuff WOB, looks promising, I think they also need to work out what to do if there a couple of cases somewhere, most will still be reluctant to travel if a case in Auckland etc means you have to isolate when you get to Sydeny, and vice versa. I hope they can work it out, but have a feeling vaccine is required.

 

[kiap]

There's already political & scientific backing so wouldn't take much for public support to become impossible for NZ gov to ignore. Whether there's time for that to occur in time for May & June remains to be seen

I think Australia's first travel bubble will be with Singapore, not NZ.

 

[Dan54]

More content, better opportunity to get more broadcast and gate money to cover extra depth required but that depends on extra games attracting appropriate extra value and also would need to be done as part of negotiation of next broadcast deal.

Yep exactly mate, just I fear by the time it is done it will be a few tv deals away. As I 66 now I not sure how many more deals I will see in my lifetime, first thing to do is consolidate any comps, and then get enough support in Aus to force tv or whoever to want to pay and show more. I think what rugby in Aus needs really is winning a WC (or going close)to ignite the people behind game again.

 

[kiap]

I think what rugby in Aus needs really is winning a WC (or going close)to ignite the people behind game again.

That's a simple formula and it's wrong.

Let's not forget Aus went close by making the final in 2015. Sure, I enjoyed that campaign but it ultimately did nothing to turn rugby around with the underlying structures of the game so hollowed out and essentially bankrupt.

RA now needs to show some spine and stand on its own feet. There will plenty enough room for TT games either way.

Well, travel permitting, of course, which is doubtful for this year.

 

[Derpus]

Some progress on the SRTT front with our Covid Response minister revealing in parliament that there's only been one case this year originating in Aus, and only "a few dozen" since the borders were closed on 19/03/20.

Officials are currently working through how a TT bubble would work from our end (your gov would first need to lift the foreign travel ban imposed on 20/03/20*) but I think provided they find a way to screen out anyone who's been in a hotspot (whether domestic or third-country) within a reasonable period prior to arrival, it'd get widespread public support esp if made fully reciprocal i.e. kiwis can go spend a week or two on the GC without having to go into MIQ on return.

* Edit: it'd also be helpful if your man Dutton would stop with the "trash" talk, though I'm sure he'll be pleased to know that one such piece was permanently "taken out" by our Police the week before last.

There's already political & scientific backing so wouldn't take much for public support to become impossible for NZ gov to ignore. Whether there's time for that to occur in time for May & June remains to be seen & of course all it takes is for another outbreak in e.g. Auckland or Melbourne to throw everything into chaos.

Itd be real good if the evil Mr Potatohead could take his property portfolio and fuck off entirely, lets be honest.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Itd be real good if the evil Mr Potatohead could take his property portfolio and fuck off entirely, lets be honest.

Yeah, even when I was living in Au I always thought he was a nasty piece of shite & he only seems to have gotten worse. I mean, seriously, who deports a 15yo kid to a country they left as a toddler.

 

[Dan54]

That's a simple formula and it's wrong.

Let's not forget Aus went close by making the final in 2015. Sure, I enjoyed that campaign but it ultimately did nothing to turn rugby around with the underlying structures of the game so hollowed out and essentially bankrupt.

RA now needs to show some spine and stand on its own feet. There will plenty enough room for TT games either way.

Well, travel permitting, of course, which is doubtful for this year.

Yep it maybe simple Kiap, but think it would help, seriously the game really only exploded when Wallabies got WC, and I just trying hard to think what else is required to get people interested again. See people like most of us on here don't need rugby on front page, but to get enough money to do things we want, we need a lot more interest in game from Joe Blogg. I believe FTA was a great start, now we need enough watching it consistantly to attreact the sponsors etc.