Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rebel man]

I'm not sure there's the appetite for a full double round robin competition of 22 rounds.

If you build it they will come. For 30 years there was no appetite for the swans in Sydney

 

[Rebels3]

12 team TransTasman - (11 games + finals)
Asian Pacific Cup with Japanese teams and the 12 TT comp sides (4 group games + finals)
SRAU played in place of NRC (4 games + finals)

Each team a min of 19 matches

If by some miracle we have the resources and player depth in 10yrs time for an extra team they can start by playing in SRAU for a few years on a reduced budget before they get exposure to the other comps.

 

[dru]

The issue with super rugby was games in South Africa. You talk about NZ having shit time zones but the games come in for a great time for viewers on the east coast.

If we to domestic comp plus TT you are playing 13 games it’s not enough it leaves sides with 6 home games.

A short season is shit and why is that because as soon as rugby is off tv everyone turns to footy and league and Union gets forgotten. We need a proper length season

Not just SA. Games in NZ can start before East coast Aus workers get home. But that is not the issue, or just part of it.

3 teams in a comp with 10, 7 being non-Aus is nowhere near as strong as a domestic comp with 5 teams. And you would look to grow. And you can have the TT following the domestic season.

Far superior to being dictated to in an "NZ + friends" comp and we continue to control our own destiny.

 

[Derpus]

Even that is too short we need a full length season also 16 weeks split across two comps in a horrid set up

You can't get a much longer season with internationals

 

[hifflepiff]

I like a post season TT-comp, but I would far prefer it only included the top 2 from each comp in a knock out format.

At current the post season feels redundant and doesn't build off the domestic season in any meaningful way. A champions league structure would help significantly.

It also opens the prospect of including the Japanese champions down the line and potentially other international teams without damaging the domestic product.

 

[Derpus]

I like a post season TT-comp, but I would far prefer it only included the top 2 from each comp in a knock out format.

At current the post season feels redundant and doesn't build off the domestic season in any meaningful way. A champions league structure would help significantly.

It also opens the prospect of including the Japanese champions down the line and potentially other international teams without damaging the domestic product.

It works in the short term. I agree it should build off the domestic season in the long term. Champions league style.

 

[Rebel man]

You can't get a much longer season with internationals

English sides play 39 games and players still play internationals

 

[Rebel man]

Not just SA. Games in NZ can start before East coast Aus workers get home. But that is not the issue, or just part of it.

3 teams in a comp with 10, 7 being non-Aus is nowhere near as strong as a domestic comp with 5 teams. And you would look to grow. And you can have the TT following the domestic season.

Far superior to being dictated to in an "NZ + friends" comp and we continue to control our own destiny.

But it isn’t going to be 3 Aus sides in with the NZ sides they put that to bed last year

 

[Rugbynutter39]

TT maybe an option and possibly the best way forward, but surely the possibility of each country committing to a 6 team domestic option is worth a look at. This gives you a genuine domestic competition of 3 months length in each country, 6 games each week for your Media presence.

At the end of each domestic comp you can explore all sorts of champion league style comps involving all teams, potentially add Japan to that, maybe a SA team, an (Asian selection).

The point is what would be the best option or outcome for Australian rugby in ten years time, IMHO the domestic option followed by crossover games would be the best.

I don’t believe 6 team domestic competition is long term viable but could do for few years with crossover trans Tasman for second half of the season but would need to aim within 3-5 years have 8 teams in each oz and nzru domestic competitions

 

[Derpus]

English sides play 39 games and players still play internationals

Ya but they release their internationals and continue playing club matches because they have huge squads, infinite money and the highest participation rates in the world.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Hoggy

A mate, more of a general sports fans, but who has a keen interest in rugby mapped out what he thinks will work for rugby in Australia for the treble as he puts it. Growth in Rating, Players, Media coverage.

His background as its somewhat important, early 50's, owns a mixed business that has some media, some transport and some retail. Turnover roughly 2.5 million over his business. A keen sports fan holds an MBA. Cricket is his first sport, with both league & rugby his second choice he likes both.

We need another 11 Australia teams.

Don't panic, we have 5 teams we need 3 more decent teams, and 8 good teams that play in second division.

Don't panic yet.

Both divisions play at the same time over two rounds.

After two rounds we have a top four and bottom four in both divisions.

The top four in the first division play a final series, then play in a champion league against NZ, Japan & ??? He says a local final series is more important than the champions league as all codes have the grand final as the number one game of the year,

The bottom 4 in division 1 play the top 2 in division 2, so six sides, over two rounds with the top four staying in Div 1.

This system he says creates interesting or sorry meaningful games between 26 to 28 weeks i.e. not too taxing similar to league in games and every game the result is important.

Also he says the beauty of the bottom 4 V the top 2 is only competitive teams will be in the top 8 first division.

Cough. cough it does or could do with private investors like a mining guy or a banker or a big accounting firm.

Funding the second division over 14 weeks is the issue.

On the funding he believes that having 8 games a week over 14 weeks, then final series then a champions league and a 3 games a week for 12 weeks should generate enough to fund the bottom 8 teams.

I had never through of this approach myself, on the surface its seems to have merit. He also believes many PI players would jump at this, of this I am not sure.

Hoggy, your thoughts.

If someone with big pockets willing to fund it could work but would take massive investment and long term view - so unless serous private equity interest it is of course just a pipe dream

 

[Rebel man]

Ya but they release their internationals and continue playing club matches because they have huge squads, infinite money and the highest participation rates in the world.

But we could easily play 24 with finals and maybe a few weeks in a champions league and still be doing 10-12 weeks less. Also one of the benefits of the longer season season is you expose more of your squad to game time keeping players engaged and not looking to leave for game time

 

[Rugbynutter39]

But it is promotion and relegation as that’s what the bottom 4 and top 2 are playing off for a spot in the top flight. Also I agree that finding 11 sides will be bloody hard[/quote

I was thinking this would possibly link into your national club championship concept as that gives you 11 teams

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

English sides play 39 games and players still play internationals

And there's significant desire among players for a shorter season overall. Then there's the likely reckoning coming in the form of increased legal action around player welfare because. Well, Rugby isn't Soccer.

 

[Dctarget]

Surely we have to cosy up to Japan more & more and try and get their league to be our IPL. Part of the schedule, players can do Super + Top League each year + internationals.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

In what way it’s only a captive fan base watching it. I have a lot of Kiwi mates who don’t even bother tuning into Super Rugby Au and only watch super rugby Nz

Where super rugby got to is i actually enjoy super rugby Au more then the crap lopsided super rugby fifteen with games out of mind out of sight ( in South Africa) and lop sided contests.

I expect I will enjoy trans Tasman but only if they make more effort for level playing fields (whether that be RA allowing imports to play for oz sides and nzru taking a more open borders policy to allow nz players to play for other trans Tasman sides as just feel this would make for a more healthy competition less constrained by borders). Ie I would also like to see other Asian sides eventually join trans Tasman competition but that would need this open borders policy imo for this to happen.

 

[Derpus]

I'd actually be surprised if any of the top league clubs had any appetite for playing in our (or NZs) competition.

Not sure it factors in with their overall strategy of paying expensive foreigners to play on dirt pitches to score corporate bragging rights.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'd actually be surprised if any of the top league clubs had any appetite for playing in our (or NZs) competition.

Not sure it factors in with their overall strategy of paying expensive foreigners to play on dirt pitches to score corporate bragging rights.

The Top League won't exist beyond this season.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The Top League won't exist beyond this season.

Why do you say that WCR?

 

[hifflepiff]

Why do you say that WCR?

It (the company based, partly professional Top League) is being replaced with a fully professional three tier league from next season.

Teams placement in this year's competition will decide which tier they're in next year. Functionally the teams will be the same but their names and stadium will be based on geography rather than company. Additionally, I believe standards are being set in regards to team structures, salary caps, stadiums (and pitches) etc, which didn't previously exist.

Its a similar to the transition Japanese soccer undertook a couple decades ago.