Where to for Super Rugby?

[papabear]

IMO rugbys downfall has come down to two things.

Contact sport in general is going down with the demographics of the nation.

AFL hit sydney hard and got the most value out of more rugby prevelant areas. Rugby has never really changed its product much and for a long time at the very least it was a place to do business, a place to be seen and heard.

The AFL showed that there game has business connections both at the top end and to the masses and was a place to be seen and heard.

Thus, people who would normally drift towards rugby drifted towards the AFL. The question you have to ask parents now is what is the rugby community?
- The AFL community is a richer / flashier bunch of people more safe game.
- Soccer is safe as houses
- All other games.

 

[No4918]

If this is the case, what has been done, or attempted, in trying to rescue this and set it on the right course?

Has a study been conducted to determine why this is the case?

Does anyone seem to care?

The drop in organised sport really isn't surprising.

More people shift workers and working weekends. Even if it's every second weekend it makes regular participation difficult with other commitments.

More households where both adults work.

More debt.

Less time.

Climate change.

Cost.

Underemployment.

Internet porn.

Lot's of kids sports on weekend leaving parents no time.

Single people/Gen Y/All about me.

Gyms.

 

[RedsHappy]

Really, is it really like this or as bad as some allege?

I can say for sure that here in Brisbane there is just a tonne of organised amateur sport going on every weekend.

When my girl and boy were (recently) school age, there was incessant _both school and club_ hockey, softball, water polo, basket ball, netball, soccer, rugby union, rugby league, AFL, Touch, volley ball, cricket, ......etc etc right across all types of schools, clubs and suburbs. Most well-organised and fun and the kids very engaged with it all, whatever their level.

No long ago I'd take my son to Touch footie on a Friday night and there were no less than 10 games going on at any one time.

 

[Twoilms]

^^^^^
The anecdotal evidence doesn't sit well with the statistical evidence. Obesity is rapidly becoming a major health issue in Australia. Easy access to entertainment, internet addiction, etc. all seem to be growing. E-sports is now considered an acceptable thing people do.

There's a major movement against sports that cause concussion, particularly among young parents. Probably a valid movement, too.

Globalization has also dramatically reduced people's free time. Wage growth for young adults (the ones who would play sport post-school) has been stagnant for near on 20 years, while living costs easily out-pace inflation particularly in Sydney, Rugby's traditional stronghold. There has also been a large growth in non-traditional working hours as full-time employment opportunities drop and more people take on part-time work.

 

[wamberal]

And schooling is a lot more competitive and intensive than it used to be, from what I can see. My old school used to be a fairly active sporting environment, but now? All that seems to matter is academia.

 

[Happy]

There are probably many reasons for the drop in organised sport participation, but in my experience there are 2 main ones:

1. Cost.
My 11 year old grand daughter has been playing basketball for a couple of seasons. Each season (summer & winter) now costs over $300, plus they have to buy their own uniform.

2. Lack of fun
Her 10 year old brother was playing AFL, but this season his mates convinced him to switch to NRL. (He is very tall, so his body shape will only suit Rugby, AFL or basketball. I hope to see him as a lock in the future).
When he joined the League club they put him a team with other new players, instead of with his mates. They wouldn't switch him teams, because in my experience over a number of sports, the emphasis is not on the kids having fun, but instead it on developing rep players and future stars, plus of course winning games.
As I said, I have seen this over a number of sports. They may end up with the stars of the junior teams having professional contracts in the future, but in the mean time they are burning lots of other kids, who just want to play and enjoy the game.

I have a number of friends and family involved in sporting clubs, and they all tell me that, at around 12 to 14 years of age, their club sees lots of kids drop out.

 

[Quick Hands]

If this is the case, what has been done, or attempted, in trying to rescue this and set it on the right course?

Has a study been conducted to determine why this is the case?

Does anyone seem to care?

The ARU/NSWRU have done little, if anything, until very recently. It's really only in the past 12-18 months when this has hit the professional game that they've really sat up and taken notice. So now we're starting well behind other sports in so many ways, it's going to be very difficult. Add to that the game in Australia is basically broke and the problem is magnified.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^^^
The anecdotal evidence doesn't sit well with the statistical evidence.

Perhaps, but many of these sport participation statistics (in all sports not just rugby) are extremely rubbery. They all inflate the numbers using all sorts of dodgy practices.

Which doesn't mean that we ignore or dismiss the stats, just that we treat them with caution.

 

[half]

Articles like this don't help.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...any-australians-are-playing-each-sport-2017-3

 

[wamberal]

Articles like this don't help.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...any-australians-are-playing-each-sport-2017-3

Here's the thing. We do not have a divine right to continue to exist, and ALL stakeholders have to work together to give us the best possible chance of survival.

 

[TOCC]

Here's the thing. We do not have a divine right to continue to exist, and ALL stakeholders have to work together to give us the best possible chance of survival.

Which means Rugby in this country is pretty much fucked...
Too many people concerned with their own interests rather then the overall health of the game..

 

[p.Tah]

Articles like this don't help.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...any-australians-are-playing-each-sport-2017-3

Interestingly the author is a rugby fan.

 

[wamberal]

Which means Rugby in this country is pretty much fucked.
Too many people concerned with their own interests rather then the overall health of the game..

They do say that the threat of imminent execution concentrates the mind wonderfully well. Maybe we shall see. I am honestly deeply depressed about all this, as I have said many times, I have seen a lot of lows over the years, and too few highs.


I am beginning to fear that we are in the earlyish days of our lowest low. Even if, beyond our wildest expectations, we win the Bled, I just cannot see that saving us, unless we magically become very competitive at the whole of the elite level, and remain so.


Come on, Mick Byrne, pull some rabbits out of your beanie, mate.

 

[Quick Hands]

Articles like this don't help.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...any-australians-are-playing-each-sport-2017-3

Half, as I alluded to in post #1188 little if anyting has been done by the highly paid professionals running the game in the past 15 years to address the junior decline. Guys like JON basked in the glories of success at the professional level while ignoring what was happening at the bottom. Super and Wallaby success actually blinded many to the true state of the game. It's only now when the storm has hit the professional game that we see the authorities showing concern. That they appear to not know what to do is hardly a surprise, as it doesn't accord with their world view of rugby, which they almost universally view throught the prism of elite private schools. The article paints an even gloomier picture of the future than the one that I've been posting about for years.

I note now that some are explaining this away as an effect of a general decline in competitive sports. We've even been told that the decline of the British Emprie is a factor. I'm not sure that these really explain the rugby decline. We certainly haven't engaged with the non-anglo demographic as well as other sports. Even accepting that these as factors, it is clear that rugby has fallen signficantly more than like sports.

Rugby 63% decline
League 27% decline
AFL 1% decline

Then let's look for a moment at the other sports with significant declines. Many of these sports appeal to an older demogrphic and following generations have simply not engaged with these sports in the same numbers:

Golf 24% decline
Snooker/biilliards 69% decline
Lawn bowls 25% decline
Ballroom dancing 44% decline

Other sports have seen real estate prices lead to their facilities being sold up for apartments:

Squash 67% decline
Ten pin bowling 62% decline
Tennis 35% decline

Finally there are the sports which have unique issues:

Softball 24% decline - too similar to baseball and baseball now caters for females. No co-incidence that baseball has had a 24% increase

Netball 24% decline has suffered from having two issues. The growth of women's soccer being the most significant - it's now the most popular female participation sport in the country. The other being that basketball is similar and arguably a more attractive game. Basketball and soccer increases are, I'd suggest mostly down to increased female participation.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Think there's a little bit more to it than that QH.

Our rep teams are full of more non-anglo players than they have ever been. They may have ended up at private schools, but I bet the parents of our State and national teams are as relatively low-socio-economic as they have ever been.

We're losing absolute numbers, not just percentages. It's the white kids who are giving up on the sport

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^And let's not forget that the rugby decline would be worse if not for the introduction of women's rugby (15s and 7s), 7 a side rugby generally and golden oldies. Take those out and just look at 15 a side male rugby and the figures are even more depressing.

 

[Quick Hands]

Think there's a little bit more to it than that QH.

Our rep teams are full of more non-anglo players than they have ever been. They may have ended up at private schools, but I bet the parents of our State and national teams are as relatively low-socio-economic as they have ever been.

We're losing absolute numbers, not percentages. It's the white kids who are giving up on the sport

Our non-anglo players are almost exclusively of pacific island descent, so I think you being a little disengenuous to link that to what I was saying. This is a rugby playing demographic which has come to Australia - not a non-anglo demographic playing the game because rugby has reached out to them.

How many professional rugby players in Australia from these demographics:

Italian, Greek, Scandavian, Middle-Eastern, SE Asian, Indian, North African?

Look at the GPS schools which have these demographics - they are the ones with the least rugby teams.

I'd agree with the last sentence - and I've been consistently saying it on these threads ad nauseum. Take out immigrants from rugby playing countries - UK, NZ, S Africa, Pacific Islands. I've previously given my opinions and observations on why the sons of Australian rugby players haven't taken up rugby. Mostly because there isn't a junior rugby club where they live.

 

[TOCC]

Bob Dwyer summed it up well

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/b...l/news-story/c6aac72a205c7db04daa6eecd5b8a05e

 

[The torpedo]

Here's the thing. We do not have a divine right to continue to exist, and ALL stakeholders have to work together to give us the best possible chance of survival.

Prep the obituaries and grab a shovel.

Too many people with their heads up their own arses to work together.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Dwyer is a hypocrite.
He made no secret of the fact that if you wanted to be a wallaby you better play for Randwick.
Cheika seems to sing the same song.
Randwick and Uni have shown no real interest in the grass roots - unless, that is, if they happen to be someone else's grass roots, so that in the last 3 years they have recruited oz schoolboys who were juniors at other Shute Shield clubs to the point discussed in the colts 2017 thread where they have so many oz schools players that they'll be playing 3rd grade - they cant play 3rds colts!
As many of us have said warehousing these players slows (if not stops) their development, skews the competition and does SFA for the clubs in the areas where the grass roots might actually sprout.
Uni seem to have backed off a bit on this - and they have fielded juniors sides in state comps in the past, so I assume they are doing something beyond pouncing with bonus points etc. after the HSC.
We need weekly competition to hone the play of our players: as far as I can see the only place this might happen is in the 6 team GPS comp - 5 weeks of competition from which they pick the rep teams: no wonder the conversion rate from oz schools to wallaby is so low.
So for Dwyer to lament the lack of attention to the grass roots is a bit rich: how are the wicks juniors going?
Here endeth the lesson.