Where to for Super Rugby?

[Braveheart81]

Essentially the ARU board control everything and make all key decisions and there is little import from other stakeholders nor into other stakeholders get a chance to express their concerns about what they are you is doing

Do they?

The NSWRU controls the spending of between 3 and 6 million dollars which is the bulk of the expenditure on the non-professional game in NSW.

The previous setup of the ARU board involved delegates of the states and gave overwhelming control to NSW and Qld. It effectively stymied any chance to grow the game in other states.

 

[half]

Ok I accept that I guess we have a different opinion and it's a selective judgement on what is good and what is bad.

I don't think our governance procedures and independence of the various stakeholders is as good as what you imply.

That it used to be worse only highlights how poor our management has been over many many many years

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think our governance procedures and independence of the various stakeholders is as good as what you imply.

I don't think they are good either but I am not sure what they should be.

Previously we had the issue where the NSWRU and QRU controlled the ARU due to the number of delegates they each provided to make up the board. That has now changed and the ARU board is independent. It has improved some things in that the ARU is no longer merely an extension of the two biggest states but has hindered other areas.

For example with the SJRU changing the day of junior club rugby in Sydney. My guess is the SJRU like most things is controlled by people from the Eastern Suburbs and Lower North Shore who probably based the decision on the fact that so many of their players had the conflict between private school rugby and club rugby. The change to Sunday might help some of them but then decimate rugby in other areas of Sydney where there is far less impact from private schools and a far greater impact from people who go to church on Sundays (such as Pacific Islander communities that are heavily practicing Christians).

I am speculating a bit of the SJRU issue but certainly those issues are apparent throughout Australian rugby where the splintered organisational structure makes it such that it is difficult to make big nationwide decisions (i.e. at ARU level) that have an impact on the grassroots as they have least control over that.

It's complicated and unwieldy and I have no idea what the ideal structure would be. People running things at grassroots level need to be able to make decisions about their competitions. The other critical aspect is that these people have to be volunteers because rugby could never afford paid staff running the minutiae of suburban rugby from a national headquarters. There also needs to be the ability for the ARU to make strategic decisions that benefit the game as a whole in the country. It's hard to know what the ideal setup is.

 

[Twoilms]

For example with the SJRU changing the day of junior club rugby in Sydney. My guess is the SJRU like most things is controlled by people from the Eastern Suburbs and Lower North Shore .

I'm from the Lower North Shore and even im sick of this kind of thing.

 

[half]

BH

Once I thought I knew the answer.

I no longer think I know the answer all I know is I have no idea anymore how to solve the problems we find ourselves in.

After many years of involvement in rugby I am almost past it now I am past trying to solve the issues anymore if we drop a team that will be the end for me I'll simply go and watch a local part time team at Woy Woy Oval.

 

[Rebels3]

Half, i all think we are at that stage.

Personally i think there is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, but there is a high chance we are too blind to see it.

The product itself isnt the bigger issue, it's the packaging we provide it, the store we sell it in and the market we target that is the issue.

 

[Pfitzy]

It's hard to know what the ideal setup is.

There are, IMHO, obvious places to start, like tearing the fences down on Schools Rugby, and putting Club Juniors into a meaningful place.

 

[Quick Hands]

Thanks.
Sensible as ever.
It is concerning that both NZ and SA have felt free to make public their views about what should happen and yet the ARU have decided to say nothing.

Concerning but hardly surprising.

 

[Quick Hands]

Hopefully the facts and common sense prevail..although unfotunatley common sense isn't that common.

Particularly where the ARU are involved.

 

[mudskipper]

More than that.

All up, with the original foundation expenses, massive losses financing over a number of years and the continuing $ms JV subsidy support to Cox's company, insiders put the total ARU cash spent on the Rebels at over $20m. A huge sum, relative to the ARU's size and resources.

A core comment of the ARU's totally incorrect (and probably disastrous) strategy from JO'N and continuing since of solely investing in the quantity of code expansion at the total expense of investment in player development systems, coaching depth at all levels, wide-reach core skills training etc, namely the quality creation and quality enhancement of the base Australian rugby product as presented to fans and viewers.

OK so a few of you agree its 13-20 million hole.... either way a great sum... So is why the ARU broke? AND then have the Rebels sent the ARU broke...

Furthermore is this Rebels owner AKA COX just laughing because the ARU are in so deep and he doesn't think they have the balls to kill it? HE must realise if its Super Rugby or the Rebels the Rebels are yesterday's news...

 

[Quick Hands]

. So is why the ARU broke?

Because they spend more money than they earn. And when they had money, they spent it on recurrent spending (salaries etc) rather that on building rugby infrastructure.

 

[Quick Hands]

I don't think they are good either but I am not sure what they should be.

It's hard to know what the ideal setup is.

This seems a good place to have a look at:
http://www.englandrugby.com/about-the-rfu/

But you need a top flight CEO to turn things around. (not just someone who loves rugby) Ian Ritchie was appointed CEO of the RFU in 2011, when things weren't going so well.

Ian Ritchie is a man of great experience in sporting administration. A barrister by training, he's been a director of Wembley Stadium and the Football League. And he's been at the All England Club masterminding the annual tennis championships at Wimbledon for the past six years. He joins the RFU at a time of enormous change at Twickenham.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/16182962

 

[RedsHappy]

This seems a good place to have a look at:
http://www.englandrugby.com/about-the-rfu/

But you need a top flight CEO to turn things around. (not just someone who loves rugby) Ian Ritchie was appointed CEO of the RFU in 2011, when things weren't going so well.

Ian Ritchie is a man of great experience in sporting administration. A barrister by training, he's been a director of Wembley Stadium and the Football League. And he's been at the All England Club masterminding the annual tennis championships at Wimbledon for the past six years. He joins the RFU at a time of enormous change at Twickenham.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/16182962

I know dudes who know Ritchie well, a very smart businessman, but, above all, note the _track record and experience in the successful management of an elite, professional sports organisation_. Our ARU has zero, yes zero, of that.

Ritchie may have made a mistake with Lancaster, that he's likely fixed with EJ (Eddie Jones), but he's got English rugby into a state of rude financial and developmental health and he's widely credited with playing a major part in the code's return to prominence in player numbers and general positive growth in the English sporting marketplace.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Ritchie may be the most astute businessman in the world, but he was also smart enough to join the RFU with a world cup on the books.

The game here would probably be seen to be in rude health too if we'd hosted the 2015 world cup and earnt the 100m gbp profit from it that the RFU did.

 

[Quick Hands]

Ritchie may be the most astute businessman in the world, but he was also smart enough to join the RFU with a world cup on the books.

The game here would probably be seen to be in rude health too if we'd hosted the 2015 world cup and earnt the 100m gbp profit from it that the RFU did.

Well, we hosted the RWC in 2003 and made a significant profit - @ $30 million IIRC. So one could argue that the ARU were presented with exactly the same opportunity.

It would seem that the RFU have taken a distinctly different approach to that of the ARU.

Reds Happy, Inside Shoulder and others have made the point that the ARU have consistently plumped for corporates without experience in elite sports management for roles within the organisation. The results are there for all to see - and I note that even some of the ARUs most stoic defenders have either gone very quiet or have started to join the criticism.

 

[RedsHappy]

Ritchie may be the most astute businessman in the world, but he was also smart enough to join the RFU with a world cup on the books.

The game here would probably be seen to be in rude health too if we'd hosted the 2015 world cup and earnt the 100m gbp profit from it that the RFU did.

Great idea for Aus rugby - another RWC! Just like we husbanded and deployed our equivalent windfall from the RWC 2003, so cleverly, so strategically, so competently. So much to show for it today.

Just give us another one and we'd do it all over again, right?

 

[Quick Hands]

I know dudes who know Ritchie well, a very smart businessman, but, above all, note the _track record and experience in the successful management of an elite, professional sports organisation_. Our ARU has zero, yes zero, of that.

Ritchie may have made a mistake with Lancaster, that he's likely fixed with EJ (Eddie Jones), but he's got English rugby into a state of rude financial and developmental health and he's widely credited with playing a major part in the code's return to prominence in player numbers and general positive growth in the English sporting marketplace.

The game there is going gang-busters. According to the 2016 RFU report player numbers are up, grassroots investment in the game rose by 1.6 million pounds to 34.1 million pounds (page 12), crowds at Twickenham are up (page 17), currently rolling out 100 floodlit, artificial grass pitches for clubs (page 18), 55 million pounds for professional rugby (page 32).

Not only in their report, but on the RFU website there is support for grassroots and the professional game which people in Australia can only dream about.
http://www.englandrugbyfiles.com/annualreport/2016/mobile/index.html#p=46

 

[stoff]

OK so a few of you agree its 13-20 million hole.. either way a great sum. So is why the ARU broke? AND then have the Rebels sent the ARU broke.

Furthermore is this Rebels owner AKA COX just laughing because the ARU are in so deep and he doesn't think they have the balls to kill it? HE must realise if its Super Rugby or the Rebels the Rebels are yesterday's news.

Let's put down some facts around special assistance received by the Rebels.
2013 - $5.5m loan, since written off.
2014 - $3.3m loan, since written off.
2015 - increased support to Rebels of $1.6m
Imperium takeover June 2015 to 2021. $2.5m less than the other franchises.
Net difference $7.9m

In contrast Brumbies have lost money for 14 years straight, and have only avoided massive bailouts through selling of the family jewels in dubious circumstances. With a reported $1.5m left in the bank, there is every chance they will begin draining the ARU coffers in the next two years.






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[RedsHappy]

There are, IMHO, obvious places to start, like tearing the fences down on Schools Rugby, and putting Club Juniors into a meaningful place.

Totally - a useful revolution in Australian rugby (and that is uncontestably what we need) must commence with an attempt to answer the absoluteky core question you infer or touch on, namely:

- what needs to be done to pare back or change our investments and player developing infrastructure to a concentrated place where we can build a quality of skills, player growth and team performance that will, in the shortest possible time, showcase the very best the code has to offer in both amateur and pro comps?

Even if we can only remake ourselves as a small jewel, that would be so much better than being little but big junk.

This I am sure means a radical slimming down of the scale we have today so that the best of our best available resources (for saving the code here) are totally focussed on reviving the quality of our output vs merely pretending we can pursue a grand strategy of size that today is merely an exercise in plugging a hundred badly leaking dykes whilst none, as they are, can ever become beautiful waterways and dams.

 

[RedsHappy]

^^^ @QH re the RFU's progress

Surely you know by now that we in Australian rugby are 'uniquely unique'!

We can learn nothing from any other codes or rugby bodies world wide as, god almighty, we have the AFL and NRL able to just grind us into the red dirt no matter what we do about it.

We're the limp little pussies to whom fate has dealt this appalling hand here and now forever, isn't it so? There's no better answer than just to accept our fate.

We're not like most of our best, our very best, forebear Aussies who'll fucken fight and innovate and work and show guts and determination and fucken never say die and stay alive and just breath and look for the better light even if the darkest collapse seemingly awaits and terrifies us.

No, we have excuses and 'explanations' and get-outs for our chronic weakness; it just happened to us, didn't it?

Nothing can be done, just lie back and learn to loath the price of passivity.