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Where to for Super Rugby?

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GaffaCHinO

Peter Sullivan (51)
You are dreaming if you think she invented the whole premise, and administrators then ran with it. Really, that's some tinfoil right there. It's been leaked to her by someone. I realise conspiracy theories are popular out west! :)
No tin foil conspiracy here. My original comment was that she threw the force under the bus 18months ago before this all blew up so it comes as no surprise to see her again gunning for the force in her latest article.
 
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NTT

Guest
You are dreaming if you think she invented the whole premise, and administrators then ran with it. Really, that's some tinfoil right there. It's been leaked to her by someone. I realise conspiracy theories are popular out west! :)


Ms Robinson was asked on The Rugby Club last year what was her hypothetical headline for Australian rugby in 2020. Her response was The Western Sydney Force or that the Force would be moved to Western Sydney. Nothing to do with administrators or what was leaked to her. She was asked for a personal opinion and that was her opinion. We are not saying the ARU ran with it, we are saying the majority of reporting ever since then has been about the financial state of Australia's franchises and what may or may not happen to one in the future. Also what we are stating, quite correctly, is there has been an agenda by certain journalists that the Force be shut down, but please, live in your alternative facts based world.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Ms Robinson was asked on The Rugby Club last year what was her hypothetical headline for Australian rugby in 2020. Her response was The Western Sydney Force or that the Force would be moved to Western Sydney. Nothing to do with administrators or what was leaked to her. She was asked for a personal opinion and that was her opinion. We are not saying the ARU ran with it, we are saying the majority of reporting ever since then has been about the financial state of Australia's franchises and what may or may not happen to one in the future. Also what we are stating, quite correctly, is there has been an agenda by certain journalists that the Force be shut down, but please, live in your alternative facts based world.

Thanks, Mr Spicer. I still maintain that it is fanciful that any notion of the Force being relocated was concocted by a journalist, off the cuff, and, even allowing that it was invented there and then, do you really think it would then become ARU policy or intention, or would develop some groundswell to kill the Force? Because a journalist said so? Really? Do you think anyone really cares what a journalist says these days very much? By all means believe otherwise.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
This is where someone like John Eales should be used to speak on behalf of the ARU and send that message that fans need to sit tight and remain calm and the ARU is working hard with SANZAAR to come out with the best outcome for Australian rugby etc. He's the longest serving board member and obviously a popular figure in Australian rugby. He would be a good person to speak out to fans.



Clearly they can't put out any great detail but they do need to send some message of positivity out to fans.



John is too busy trying to find out which carpark the next CEO/board search is going to be in and which one he wants to be in Reds or ARU.... Zero faith in any of them, being longest serving is a detraction if anything.
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
In read recently that the ARU have invested 13 million into the Rebels... Is this possibly true?
And the franchise owner who is already allowed to sign more foreign players than any other wants It to be extended? Is that good for Australian rugby??are we looking at 457 visa rugby players in the rear future?
 
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Moono75

Guest
In read recently that the ARU have invested 13 million into the Rebels. Is this possibly true?
And the franchise owner who is already allowed to sign more foreign players than any other wants It to be extended? Is that good for Australian rugby??are we looking at 457 visa rugby players in the rear future?

This is where the Force offer value. New $1.5 Million sponsor with option for another 2 years, fan buy out of the club potentially another $5 Million, local WA players coming through the system into the Force side. It would be an absoloute f@rken shame to kill the Force off now when the heavy lifting has been done and the rewards are just about to be harvested.

If the ARU drop the Force they will never get back in WA and quite frankly we will start digging a bloody ditch to seperate us from the rest of Australia.
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
This is where the Force offer value. New $1.5 Million sponsor with option for another 2 years, fan buy out of the club potentially another $5 Million, local WA players coming through the system into the Force side. It would be an absoloute f@rken shame to kill the Force off now when the heavy lifting has been done and the rewards are just about to be harvested.

If the ARU drop the Force they will never get back in WA and quiet frankly we will start digging a bloody ditch to seperate us from the rest of Australia.

Yep, ARU went to Perth before Melbourne for a reason.

One decision they got right. Can anyone make it two???? ;)
 
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Moono75

Guest
Hopefully the facts and common sense prevail......although unfotunatley common sense isn't that common.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
In read recently that the ARU have invested 13 million into the Rebels. Is this possibly true?
And the franchise owner who is already allowed to sign more foreign players than any other wants It to be extended? Is that good for Australian rugby??are we looking at 457 visa rugby players in the rear future?

More than that.

All up, with the original foundation expenses, massive losses financing over a number of years and the continuing $ms JV subsidy support to Cox's company, insiders put the total ARU cash spent on the Rebels at over $20m. A huge sum, relative to the ARU's size and resources.

A core comment of the ARU's totally incorrect (and probably disastrous) strategy from JO'N and continuing since of solely investing in the quantity of code expansion at the total expense of investment in player development systems, coaching depth at all levels, wide-reach core skills training etc, namely the quality creation and quality enhancement of the base Australian rugby product as presented to fans and viewers.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
John is too busy trying to find out which carpark the next CEO/board search is going to be in and which one he wants to be in Reds or ARU. Zero faith in any of them, being longest serving is a detraction if anything.

There is no point in the ARU issuing one of its usual patronising-to-fans bullshit 'positivity' statements until, with genuine substance, it has something concrete to be positive about.

The hard truth is that it possesses little of substance to be positive about in March 2017. It has already milked to the full its one genuine positive of the last 12 months - the success of the womens' 7s team and the excellent boost that has given to womens' 7s rugby in Australia (which I and others have applauded on these pages).

To build a positive but non-bullshit vibe around a sports code you need wins, improvements, growing things that work, improving fan engagement, growing TV viewership, generally upbeat media coverage, new teams building some successes, better promotions occurring, and so on.

John Eales is the exemplar Sydney-networking-driven ARU board member who, like so many of them there, does not possess the essential grounding in successful sports code management expertise in a demanding competitive environment. There is zero evidence that the ARU's perpetual love of 'ex-Wallabies' on its board has done anything of genuine substance to contribute to either enhanced ARU governance or the growth of rugby in Australia.
 

Twoilms

Trevor Allan (34)
Luke Morahan has agreed a deal with Bristol. I wonder if the current fuckery around the super competition pushed him.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Luke Morahan has agreed a deal with Bristol. I wonder if the current fuckery around the super competition pushed him.


I doubt it. He turned down similar offers last year and only opted to sign a one year deal with the Force.

I think it's been a while in the making.
 

stoff

Trevor Allan (34)
More than that.

All up, with the original foundation expenses, massive losses financing over a number of years and the continuing $ms JV subsidy support to Cox's company, insiders put the total ARU cash spent on the Rebels at over $20m. A huge sum, relative to the ARU's size and resources.

A core comment of the ARU's totally incorrect (and probably disastrous) strategy from JO'N and continuing since of solely investing in the quantity of code expansion at the total expense of investment in player development systems, coaching depth at all levels, wide-reach core skills training etc, namely the quality creation and quality enhancement of the base Australian rugby product as presented to fans and viewers.
. How much was spent on the initial setup under private equity - probably not much. How much have the Rebels actually received that is over and above other franchises by rights distribution? Private or ARU owned, clubs around the world get a share of the Tv money. Do you have hard figures or are you speculating?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
How much additional revenue has the ARU received from the SANZAAR TV deal due to the existence of the Rebels?

I know you will defend the ARU to the death BH, you have relentlessly defended, excused and rationalised against criticism virtually the whole Australian rugby status quo here for many years. You are of course entitled to that misguided perspective, however tragically wrong, as I sincerely admire your genuine, obvious passion for all things rugby. As we die away here, it is the deep, hyper-loyal fans like you who will in many senses be hurt the most.

Above, you miss the point, fundamentally.

In any business it is never the immediate profit equation that ultimately matters - and I truly doubt the Rebels has been profitable in the sense you infer as their crowd and viewership levels (the latter as a key marker of business value to any Pay TV company) have always been comparatively poor - but rather is the investment policy overall and the investment decisions you are making as a business, for example:

(a) the right investment decision vs other competing strategic priorities and

(b) with limited financial and other resources how does a CEO and board ensure a proper balance between absolute growth and the enhancement of the quality of that business' underlying product that will enable that growth to be competitively excellent (vs alternatives) and long-lasting so as to sustain the business in the longer term. For many businesses this is typically termed 'product investment', 'investment in improved quality, or 'R&D'.

There is no soundness in saying something like 'we will rapidly expand our network as someone will pay us a short-term gain to do that as they want immediate bulk volume only' if that expansion is not, over the medium- to long-term, balanced by the investments essential to ensure the underlying quality of product being provided by such a network expansion is good enough to ultimately sustain the enlarged costs and risks of funding that network.

Finally, it's largely a myth that Australia's Super rugby volumetric expansion has actually been central to the obtaining of higher global media $ revenues for the ARU. Rather, the ARU's media increases were principally driven by a Super-rights bidding war in the UK fuelled by TV operators there fear that their lunch was being rapidly eaten away by streaming services and why 'owning' live sport rights was their best defensive antidote to that rationally-based fear.

Whether this UK Super rights $ premium can ever be repeated - or rather whether it is likely to materially die away especially with Super viewership in decline as the product quality declines (except in NZ) - is already being hotly debated today in global rugby media circles.
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
Let's make some very broad assumptions.

In 2012 the ARU stated Super Rugby brought in $12m a year from broadcast rights. The introduction of the rebels allowed a 30% increase in the number of games, so assume all else being equal, that an extra $3m a year

Over the 7 year of the Brumby's existence, that would work out to......$20m

:p :D
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I know you will defend the ARU to the death BH, you have relentlessly defended, excused and rationalised against criticism virtually the whole Australian rugby status quo here for many years. You are of course entitled to that misguided perspective, however tragically wrong, as I sincerely admire your genuine, obvious passion for all things rugby. As we die away here, it is the deep, hyper-loyal fans like you who will in many senses be hurt the most.


No. My desire is to include all the relevant information when having a discussion so the discussion has some basis in reality.

I in no way suggested that the expansion decision was a good one just that you can't only look at the money spent on the Rebels when coming up with that conclusion.

The SANZAAR deal when the Rebels were added split the revenue based on the number of Super Rugby teams. My understanding is that was the entirety of the deal and not just the portion notionally allocated to Super Rugby.

The addition of the Rebels allowed three conferences and the move to the home and away derby system that existed for several years. Most Australian fans would say that aspect was good for Australia.

I am trying to add relevant information to the discussion. There are so many discussions being had here in which the popular narrative doesn't really reflect reality.

E.g. "Bill Pulver is terrible and ruining Australia rugby. The board should fire him". That paints him as some sort of rogue employee. My take is that Pulver is pursuing the wishes of the board and perhaps the fans should be laying their vitriol at the feet of the board (which does include Pulver) and calling for an overhaul of it in its entirety.

E.g. "The ARU made a terrible decision when they caved to private schools and moved Sydney Junior Rugby to Sundays." Wasn't that entirely a decision by the Sydney Junior Rugby Union and a symptom of the problems having the game run by many small bodies trying to make decisions for their own benefit rather than having overarching control somewhere to make decisions for the greater good.
 

half

Dick Tooth (41)
In and of itself Super Rugby is not the problem the problem is there is a total lack of infrastructure lying beneath the levels of super rugby

This lack of any meaningful infrastructure below Super Rugby has meant we only have one real source of main of mainstream revenue resulting in a total reliance on Super Rugby.

Further this has led to position we seem in capable of putting a plan B in place. if fears of a South African collapse in ratings may be brought on by government intervention causes a huge for and revenue we are totally unprepared.

Beyond all this is unlike almost every other successful code in the world we don't have any real separation of powers between our top and bottom .

Essentially the ARU board control everything and make all key decisions and there is little import from other stakeholders nor into other stakeholders get a chance to express their concerns about what they are you is doing
 
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