• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

Waratahs 2025

dru

dru

Tim Horan (67)
This...
Hogie said:
The Lancaster signing does not make sense and I cannot see him breaking the match day squad on too many occasions next year.
Click to expand...

And this...
Hogie said:
RA need to learn their lesson to more evenly spread talent. Mosese Tuipolotu never got a shot last year and he has now headed off to Scotland where i fully expect him to become an international force in the Scotland centres with Australian fans left scratching heads once again how another aussie is capped for another nation.
Click to expand...

Seem mutually contradictory.
 
Yoda

Yoda

Syd Malcolm (24)
Wilson said:
I don't think Pietsch is necessarily a poor decision maker overall, I think his decision making is poor in the back 3, particularly when it comes to finishing. I think a lot of his play and skill set would actually be well suited to 13 and he has a stable enough base in the 15 man game to make the switch.

As far as Sua'ail'i at 13 goes, I'm not convinced it's his best position, but even if it is that's going to be a long term project which will probably start with a year or 2 almost entirely played in the back 3, largely on the wing to start. The tahs need someone there next year (and cover for them as well) and with Pietsch unlikely to start in the back 3 ahead of Sua'ail'i, Kellaway, Jorgensen and Lancaster (I'd have Reilly above him as pure winger too), there's a lot of upside in him making that change, even if it's just so that he can offer more coverage in the 23 jersey. If they had more centres in the squad it might be a different story, but as it stands they've only retained Foketi and probably Walton with no others rumoured from that Rebels group. The rest of their options are all makeshift who are better in other positions, so you may as well work on converting the "odd man out" in Pietsch. Otherwise he becomes very difficult to re-sign in a years time, where other teams will likely be able to get a lot more value out of him, particularly as Jorgensen comes into his own.
Click to expand...
Pietsch may leave the Tahs? He’s off contract isn’t he? Force could do with him.
 
The Ghost of Raelene

The Ghost of Raelene

Steve Williams (59)
Hogie said:
The Lancaster signing does not make sense and I cannot see him breaking the match day squad on too many occasions next year. RA need to learn their lesson to more evenly spread talent. Mosese Tuipolotu never got a shot last year and he has now headed off to Scotland where i fully expect him to become an international force in the Scotland centres with Australian fans left scratching heads once again how another aussie is capped for another nation.
Click to expand...
He was given a go enough I think.... Got more of a chance than his brother was which is a shame. If he goes on to play for Scotland good luck to him but I didn't even see him dominate a Club game for Easts.

Could he become something? Sure. Sadly we don't have the resources to hold everyone and hope. Especially the ones with a direct line to other countries like he does.

fatprop said:
I will continue to re-state the NZ Super Rugby has a better system

Each side nominates a "25"

Any player outside the 25 is available to join another team's 25

We need to limit warehousing
Click to expand...
This, this post couldn't be more accurate. This and loaning players needs to be fully adopted.
 
The Ghost of Raelene

The Ghost of Raelene

Steve Williams (59)
I think Lancaster is bit different to tuipolotu though. He is currently a better player than Reilly and has more upside than Pietsch long term. He'd lock a starting spot down.

Tuipolotu was was amongst Foketi, Perese, Walton, Wilson. He's not better than any of them currently and had two Wallabies in the starting spots. Shame that 4 of the 5 have now left which probably would have got him a clear run to a spot but so be it.....
 
Derpus

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The Ghost of Raelene said:
I think Lancaster is bit different to tuipolotu though. He is currently a better player than Reilly and has more upside than Pietsch long term. He'd lock a starting spot down.

Tuipolotu was was amongst Foketi, Perese, Walton, Wilson. He's not better than any of them currently and had two Wallabies in the starting spots. Shame that 4 of the 5 have now left which probably would have got him a clear run to a spot but so be it.....
Click to expand...
This kind of thing seems to happen to the Tahs a lot. I feel like our backrow stocks were absolutely loaded only a season or two ago and now they are pretty bare.
 
Wilson

Wilson

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Derpus said:
This kind of thing seems to happen to the Tahs a lot. I feel like our backrow stocks were absolutely loaded only a season or two ago and now they are pretty bare.
Click to expand...
It's cause and effect - overload on a position and you risk loosing too many of them because you haven't been able to value any of them individually as highly as the market will. Did seem to be particularly bad under Coleman, but I don't think he had great ideas about what a super rugby level squad should look like, as compared to the lower levels he was more familiar with.

That said it's not just the tahs who are going to be facing it the next couple of years, after all the Rebels players have landed there's every chance there will be collateral damage to some of the super squads. Reds in particular have a tough course to navigate around locks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dru
Agent

Agent

Watty Friend (18)
The Ghost of Raelene said:
I think Lancaster is bit different to tuipolotu though. He is currently a better player than Reilly and has more upside than Pietsch long term. He'd lock a starting spot down.

Tuipolotu was was amongst Foketi, Perese, Walton, Wilson. He's not better than any of them currently and had two Wallabies in the starting spots. Shame that 4 of the 5 have now left which probably would have got him a clear run to a spot but so be it.....
Click to expand...

Only 3 have left - Perese, Tuipolotu, Wilson. Foketi and Walton are still there unless I've missed something.
 
The Ghost of Raelene

The Ghost of Raelene

Steve Williams (59)
Wilson said:
It's cause and effect - overload on a position and you risk loosing too many of them because you haven't been able to value any of them individually as highly as the market will. Did seem to be particularly bad under Coleman, but I don't think he had great ideas about what a super rugby level squad should look like, as compared to the lower levels he was more familiar with.

That said it's not just the tahs who are going to be facing it the next couple of years, after all the Rebels players have landed there's every chance there will be collateral damage to some of the super squads. Reds in particular have a tough course to navigate around locks.
Click to expand...
Lets hope the Reds are watching then with the way they are absorbing talent at the moment. Brumbies have been able to hold onto guys but probably helps they have been deep across front row and especially Hooker where injuries do happen throughout the year so guys inevitably get more mins than a Centre in a perfect world. Brumbies have been thinner there but not exposed with the durability of Tua, Sapsford and Len (usually)
 
dru

dru

Tim Horan (67)
The Ghost of Raelene said:
Lets hope the Reds are watching then with the way they are absorbing talent at the moment. Brumbies have been able to hold onto guys but probably helps they have been deep across front row and especially Hooker where injuries do happen throughout the year so guys inevitably get more mins than a Centre in a perfect world. Brumbies have been thinner there but not exposed with the durability of Tua, Sapsford and Len (usually)
Click to expand...

I don't see this as a Reds issue but an RA one. RA wanted the Rebels to be supported and to off-load costs from the RA contract guarantees. I really hope that the Reds bargained for appropriate commercial recompense. While the squad is undoubtably stronger a lot of that wasn't needed, comes with issues in terms of players part way through the development cycle, and as noted a future off-loading challenge.

To be clear, the ex-Rebels are welcome, just the cost issue inherited from RA is not.
 
Wilson

Wilson

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
The Ghost of Raelene said:
Lets hope the Reds are watching then with the way they are absorbing talent at the moment. Brumbies have been able to hold onto guys but probably helps they have been deep across front row and especially Hooker where injuries do happen throughout the year so guys inevitably get more mins than a Centre in a perfect world. Brumbies have been thinner there but not exposed with the durability of Tua, Sapsford and Len (usually)
Click to expand...
It's a real worry for me, though I do have a fair bit of trust in the leadership at the moment, they've been making the right moves for some time and clearly aren't being to quick to jump on the guys that would completely unbalance the squad (Salakaia-Loto and Leota). I do think Salakaia-Loto still ends up in Queensland given all the rumours though, so it will need to be managed. The amount of off season rugby does help a bit in this situation too - a young player stuck behind a wallaby can still be confident they'll get 5-10 top level games a year for their development and have a shot at demanding a place, and the coaches have much more data to work with in choosing who to retain.

It's a bit less of a problem for the Brumbies as a net importer of talent - they only have so many locals to hold onto and they build there is a lot more external recruitment involved in building their squad (even if it happens at age grade). Talent exporting states like NSW and QLD can fall into the trap of trying to lock down the best guys from each age group, even if they're all 10s, or locks or whatever. That said, success has defintiely helped the Brumbies here - in development of players and on the field. There's value in staying at a place where you'll get better and you've got a real chance at being involved in the big games. tahs are probably getting burnt particularly bad now because failure has coincided with these guys coming off contract.
 
The Ghost of Raelene

The Ghost of Raelene

Steve Williams (59)
dru said:
I don't see this as a Reds issue but an RA one. RA wanted the Rebels to be supported and to off-load costs from the RA contract guarantees. I really hope that the Reds bargained for appropriate commercial recompense. While the squad is undoubtably stronger a lot of that wasn't needed, comes with issues in terms of players part way through the development cycle, and as noted a future off-loading challenge.

To be clear, the ex-Rebels are welcome, just the cost issue inherited from RA is not.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying the Reds are directly just taking everything that moves as players seem to want to be there but a by product of it might be the exodus of guys at the end of next year and some could be guys you want long term but have been jumped in the depth chart by a more senior recruit. right now. A guy like De Luttis would be high on any sides recruitment wish list I'd say and he has quite the stable of Props around him in QLD.
 
Wilson

Wilson

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
dru said:
I don't see this as a Reds issue but an RA one. RA wanted the Rebels to be supported and to off-load costs from the RA contract guarantees. I really hope that the Reds bargained for appropriate commercial recompense. While the squad is undoubtably stronger a lot of that wasn't needed, comes with issues in terms of players part way through the development cycle, and as noted a future off-loading challenge.

To be clear, the ex-Rebels are welcome, just the cost issue inherited from RA is not.
Click to expand...
I disagree, it absolutely is an issue for all of the super sides, and not just during this period. RA does have some responsibility (and they are trying to exercise via centralisation) but building out well balanced squads is 100% the domain of GMs/DoRs/Head Coaches of the super sides.

Starting to get off topic for the tahs thread at this point, but as far as the Reds go they are probably even more responsible for their own setup than either the tahs or Brumbies, given their resistance to centralisation.
 
Rob42

Rob42

John Solomon (38)
The Ghost of Raelene said:
Lets hope the Reds are watching then with the way they are absorbing talent at the moment. Brumbies have been able to hold onto guys but probably helps they have been deep across front row and especially Hooker where injuries do happen throughout the year so guys inevitably get more mins than a Centre in a perfect world. Brumbies have been thinner there but not exposed with the durability of Tua, Sapsford and Len (usually)
Click to expand...
Brumbies have been able to hold onto guys better because they can assure players they'll be well-coached and given the best opportunities possible - even their 3rd-string hookers can get Wallabies caps. That kind of track record takes years to develop. The Reds can point to a track record of stability in coaching, even through times when Thorn was maybe not the coolest coach going around. The Tahs might - might - have put the right pieces in place now, but it will still take years for them to show any sort of stability.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top