Waratahs 2013

[Hawko]

This post might be better placed in WJ's positivity thread, but it seems to me that out of the dross of this season there could yet be some major positives. In 2007 the Waratahs won three games and came 13th. Only the hapless Reds were worse. But the fairly inexperienced coach, Ewen McKenzie, was retained for the next year. Kurtley Beale emerged that year and went on to be the key playmaker in 2008. 2008 saw the Waratahs come second on the table and face the Crusaders away in the final. That Crusaders team was one of the best ever, yet had it not been for an injury to Beale in the second half when the Waratahs were slowly getting on top, I think the Waratahs would have won.

You always learn more from your losses than your wins, providing you are prepared to look honestly at the causes and rectify them. That's Foley's task. To look at what went wrong in detail and change those things for next year. The team has some real quality talent in its ranks, Foley could be the next great playmaker after Beale, the squad will be strong next year as it was on paper this year. Selection of the coaching team will be crucial, as will a new attitude to S&C.

But 2008, for all the disappointment of the loss in the final, was one of the best and most enjoyable seasons I've had and it was a pleasure to go to the SFS each week and watch them turn teams over. It can happen again, but only if we learn the lessons of this season. I remain optimistic.

 

[It is what it is]

This post might be better placed in WJ's positivity thread, but it seems to me that out of the dross of this season there could yet be some major positives. In 2007 the Waratahs won three games and came 13th. Only the hapless Reds were worse. But the fairly inexperienced coach, Ewen McKenzie, was retained for the next year. Kurtley Beale emerged that year and went on to be the key playmaker in 2008. 2008 saw the Waratahs come second on the table and face the Crusaders away in the final. That Crusaders team was one of the best ever, yet had it not been for an injury to Beale in the second half when the Waratahs were slowly getting on top, I think the Waratahs would have won.

You always learn more from your losses than your wins, providing you are prepared to look honestly at the causes and rectify them. That's Foley's task. To look at what went wrong in detail and change those things for next year. The team has some real quality talent in its ranks, Foley could be the next great playmaker after Beale, the squad will be strong next year as it was on paper this year. Selection of the coaching team will be crucial, as will a new attitude to S&C.

But 2008, for all the disappointment of the loss in the final, was one of the best and most enjoyable seasons I've had and it was a pleasure to go to the SFS each week and watch them turn teams over. It can happen again, but only if we learn the lessons of this season. I remain optimistic.

Hawko, I admire your optimism.

As you've made comparisons between Ewen McKenzie and Anthony Foley let's delve further.

Ewen only became the successful coach he is today when 3 key elements came together;
1. He learnt the hard way via the Waratahs and Stade Francais that he needed to have strong support coaches. He knew that the organisation had to be ALL on the same page. The Reds made massive changes...... coaches, their CEO and Chairman all moved on.
Rod McCall came in as Chairman and drove off field activities and importantly provided unified backing for Ewen when he came in.
2. Ewen was fortunate to pick up a squad 'on the up', with his core playing group young, enthusiastic and coachable.
3. He'd learnt how not to do it, was battle hardened after some tough gigs, was ready, and came to the Reds with no historical baggage.

Anthony Foley in comparison;
- Has inherited his support structure and is part of an organisation that are NOT on the same page. Has no one strong around or above him to watch his back and free him of distractions to simply coach.
- Has a squad 'flatlining to on the decline' - No real leader (Captain), No halfback, No 10 undecided, No attacking fullback, No hooker/front row depth etc Chronic injuries were also evident in key players before a ball was kicked in 2012, too many key players are past their most effective use by date, and recruitment/retention decisions have been poor. Too many old dogs that couldn't perform their old tricks, let alone learn ones.
- He hasn't learnt 'how to do it', 'do it' being a head coach of this profile and magnitude. The step up from what he was doing as an assistant to Head Coach is huge and needs a very different skill set.

Good luck to Coach Foley, but the back office needs to be in order too, and that's outside his control.

 

[qwerty51]

Do you not know his name is Michael?

 

[p.Tah]

Do you not know his name is Michael?

Is that what the Journos said to the Tahs board and admin?

 

[waratahjesus]

It is what it is - you really need to make up your mind, you claimed foley was in charge of the team for years and hickey was a puppet, now foley has no idea how to be a head coach?

One or the other please.

 

[mjw]

http://blogs.abc.net.au/grandstand/rugby-union-the-clubhouse/
Interview with Tom Carter

 

[It is what it is]

It is what it is - you really need to make up your mind, you claimed foley was in charge of the team for years and hickey was a puppet, now foley has no idea how to be a head coach?

One or the other please.

I'll be polite.
Don't think so WJ, you may have me confused with another contributor.

 

[Elfster]

http://blogs.abc.net.au/grandstand/rugby-union-the-clubhouse/
Interview with Tom Carter

He surprised me... He came across quite well.

 

[waratahjesus]

I'll be polite.
Don't think so WJ, you may have me confused with another contributor.

Oh, sorry. Right you are, my mistake and my humble apologies.

 

[fatprop]

Battle of the halfbacks as Waratahs sign Lucas

July 10, 2012
Georgina Robinson

Sports Reporter

Newcomer … Australian under-20s player Matt Lucas will join the Waratahs next year. Photo: Getty Images
THE Waratahs have signed Australian under-20s halfback Matt Lucas to their squad for next year, putting further pressure on marquee signing Sarel Pretorius.
Lucas's signing means the Waratahs could have four halfbacks in their 35-man squad next season, as Pretorius, Brendan McKibbin and Grayson Hart are all on contract.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/battle-of-the-halfbacks-as-waratahs-sign-lucas-20120709-21rrz.html#ixzz20A7icDmE

Pretorius must be on his way

 

[Braveheart81]

So is Grayson Hart still on an EPS contract for 2013 or is he upgraded to a full contract?

I wonder if Lucas is on a full contract or an EPS? Presumably a full contract.

 

[fatprop]

So is Grayson Hart still on an EPS contract for 2013 or is he upgraded to a full contract?

I wonder if Lucas is on a full contract or an EPS? Presumably a full contract.

"If" Pretorius is going, I would assume Lucas would be the EPS option.

The challenge is that so far we have McKibbon - very talented, athletic but takes average options at times, Hart - who hasn't shown much so far - all he did was get it out on Saturday. Lucas? lets see his option taking, that will be the key. That is why Nic White is sitting behind Genia.

 

[Braveheart81]

We should use our marquee signing to hire the best international sports psychologist.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

We should use our marquee signing to hire the best international sports psychologist.

but Eddie Jones is on contract to Japan...

 

[Braveheart81]

I said sports psychologist, not sports psycho.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

I may be out on my own here, but I reckon the Tahs need the clean out and to refresh a load of the squad. They need to move away from "mature" "experienced" back ups and punt a bit more on youth and enthusiasm.

Guys that could be Wallabies in 3 to 4 years, not squad players in Japan.

If this happens will we be happy with the tah's struggling for the next 3 years until these "young" players mature enough to compete with the other provinces?

 

[fatprop]

Hooper and Lucas are good starts.

 

[Braveheart81]

The thing is we shouldn't really struggle.

It should only be a few young players mostly as EPS players or as 3rd or 4th choices in their positions.

Recruit the following young players:

Prop to replace Tilse
4/6 to replace Mumm
Make a decision on Peterson. The Tahs either need to be confident he is on the right path or let him go. My thinking is that he just isn't showing enough and he should be moved on. He's got the size, but he's barely developed into a strong first grade player, let alone a super rugby player.
10 to replace Halangahu
12/13 to replace Carter
14/15 to replace Karaiua-Henry

Recruit more experienced (matchday 22 ready) players to replace Vickerman and Elsom. Stanford might be worthy of a contract as they have used him a bit this season.

None of the young recruits really need to be to ready to be regular super rugby players. The EPS in particular should be full of young talent rather than experienced club players like Trist.

If everyone is fit next season, we might have:

Robbo
TPN
Kepu
Timani
Douglas
Dennis
Hooper
Palu
McKibbin
Foley
Mitchell
Barnes
Horne
Turner
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

Fitzpatrick
Ryan
New lock
Lopeti Timani
Alcock (maybe try and bulk up a bit so he could also be used at 6 for duel fetchers late in a game)
Hart
Kingston

That still leaves decent players outside the 22 such as Ulugia, Pakalani, McCutcheon (TBC).

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Isn't that team pretty much what we have now?

I agree that young players are required - some for the immediate future and some for the longer term replacement of aging players. I belive that the EPS should be these longer term prospects (who would be ideally placed into a 3rd tier competition if we had one)

 

[Braveheart81]

Yes, it is pretty much the team we have now.

We are in a pretty good position squad wise in that the right players are being moved along because they are either old and not first choice or are crocked.

That is why we can and should recruit heavily for the future. We probably only need a couple of our recruits to be immediately ready for Super Rugby (this would presumably mean people with some Super Rugby experience).