Waratahs 2013

[AngrySeahorse]

Do you remember the Newcastle Wildfires? I lived in Newcastle during their final two years of life. Sadly, the local rugby community apparently did not give a shite about them.

Definitely sad that the Wildfires didn't stay up. I know from people more involved back then that the local clubs did not want to release their best players for it as they were more concerned about winning the local competition. As a result the Wildfires did not have the local players involved in the team that the local rugby community would generally come to see. It is no wonder then that the locals didn't care about it. That doesn't mean that there should not be another attempt at entering the team in the Shute Shield however. I agree with the prior comment that grass roots do need to push for these things but I also believe it is in the best interests of NSW Rugby & by extension the Tahs to keep pushing arguments to areas like Newcastle to try & get a team in the Shute Shield. I had a few general discussions locally & my view is that whilst we have pretty good numbers they'd have to increase a great deal to give local clubs confidence they'd have the numbers to create depth to survive any players pulled out for a Wildfires team. As well as that there would need to be serious financial backing to keep players in the town. There is good financial support for Rugby in Newcastle but perhaps not enough to cover what would be required for the Wildfires. Attitude would need to change, I'm one of those keen to see a team in the Shute Shield to provide rep opportunities - & I still love & value the Newcastle comp. Others may not feel that way. So obviously there are quite a few things to go thru before we see a Newcastle team in the Shute again.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Firstly (and yes this will sound stupid) I cant see NSW playing enough 'rugby'.
Meaning i see this team as a team of individual athletes, and yes i use the word athlete on purpose. In the fact that a lot of there players are athletes as appose to rugby players. I use Tom Kingston as an example as i have been watching him play prior to Super Rugby. I have no doubt he is a talent and can do amazing things on the field. But now at the waratahs i think his ability to 'read' and 'play' the game has depleted. My example to back this up is at a Junior Rugby Presentation where he was the guest speaker he was asked to speak about his experiences with the waratahs since joining the professional team. He is a good speaker, but what i heard him say shocked me. Constantly about how he has had to put on 15kg to play, and bench x amount. Dont get me wrong, size is important, but THAT important. Teach him the skills . and yes he is fast, but you can never be to fast, and yes you can be to big.

Leading to my next point, why do the waratahs care more about a players bulk, over there rugby ability.
A story to back this up that i was informed.
An islander schoolboy rugby player, i think with the last name 'Mafi' who was a brillant schoolboy player joined the waratahs rigby out of school.

Taking me back to my original point of coaching, which is where the kiwis win it everytime. Get that mindset into the waratahs, Skill and speed is more important than size.
Richi Mcaw could probably bench press half of what Jenkins can..
But put the 1RM stats down and pick up the rugby stats. The ability on the field.

Thoguhts are appreciated.
I hope some of you are able to kind of see where im coming from.

"Kind of see" where you're coming from cjf? More like TESTIFY! I agree 100%.

There is an obsession with size everywhere. Even at rep Rugby for women I've heard flankers being told to get over 80kg or they won't be considered big enough (which is heavy for the average female). This is despite smaller women's flankers getting to the breakdown quicker & being more effective with technique. Speed is so crucial in Rugby. I've heard stories similar to the Mafi story you talk about at all levels of Rugby. As another e.g. I've seen a number of Saders scrums this year & over the years beat packs that had a much greater weight - with superior technique, once again this is a skills thing.

I do agree a bit of bulk is good. Explosive weight training incorporated with Rugby skills should get more of a look in.

Not a bad call on Kieran Reid at all by the way although I may be biased for some reason.

 

[Jnor]

It's one thing for old goats like me to be cynical and disgusted about what's going on at Driver Avenue, but when you get enthusiastic and idealistic young people like Jnor saying that he is "seriously close to giving up on them because of shit like this" the organisation has serious problems.

I never said I was idealistic or enthusiastic!

 

[Bruce Ross]

I never said I was idealistic or enthusiastic!

If it helps me to make a point, Jnor, you're "enthusiastic and idealistic".
.

 

[Richo]

What do you know? The Waratahs find a new way to piss off their remaining supporters...

TC might not be the best player around but he fights his fucking guts our every game, he sucks it up when he's MOTM one week and dropped the next, and he gives grown men permission to scream "Tugboat!!" at the top of their lungs. Oh, and he loves his team. Even if they felt they had to let him go, they could have done it the right way.

I've been on the fence about how drastic a clean out is necessary. Not anymore.

 

[mark_s]

Harsh as it is given his passion for the tahs, I can understand why they are looking elsewhere rather than resigning TC. This is about the future rather than the past. They have Barnes, Foley, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne all to fit into the 10, 12, 13 and 15 positions (assuming Mitchel and Turner have 11 and 14 locked up). One of the criticisms of the tahs this year is that their squad didn't include enough young development players to come through in future. For this to happen then spaces need to be made available.

 

[BPC]

Why would Tom Carter be on the list of Tahs problems at all, he contributes to the team being a success, problems should be things preventing success.

He could be replaced by a better 12 (I won't get into arguments about which 12 is better or whether the Waratahs could get him) but this could also be said about just about every player except Pocock and maybe Genia. There is always room for improvement but the point I was making is that the need for improvement with TC is very far down the list of issues facing the Tahs. (Is it better if I call them issues rather than problems?)

 

[Braveheart81]

TC is very far down the list of issues facing the Tahs. (Is it better if I call them issues rather than problems?)

The Waratahs prefer to refer to them as operational processes.

 

[It is what it is]

The Waratahs prefer to refer to them as operational processes.

Why not call them "heavily disguised opportunities"

 

[fatprop]

I may be out on my own here, but I reckon the Tahs need the clean out and to refresh a load of the squad. They need to move away from "mature" "experienced" back ups and punt a bit more on youth and enthusiasm.

Guys that could be Wallabies in 3 to 4 years, not squad players in Japan.

 

[Braveheart81]

Who else would you get rid of?

If Damien Fitzpatrick is back next year I don't mind having John Ulugia as the 3rd choice because he can play prop and hooker. Paddy Ryan is young and talented and is on the way up. Tilse should go.

I definitely agree that we should put some young guys on the EPS contracts.

We need a new lock and possibly a 6 with Vickerman, Mumm and Elsom gone and Peterson not developing as expected.

 

[waratahjesus]

I don't think anyone is objecting to fresh blood, it's the way they handed TC after he gave the club everything they asked of him and more.

It shouldn't be hard for an organisation to sit down make a decision then let a player know. Telling someone no, then yes, then no,then maybe is just crap for everyone involved.

 

[fatprop]

Who else would you get rid of?

If Damien Fitzpatrick is back next year I don't mind having John Ulugia as the 3rd choice because he can play prop and hooker. Paddy Ryan is young and talented and is on the way up. Tilse should go.

I definitely agree that we should put some young guys on the EPS contracts.

We need a new lock and possibly a 6 with Vickerman, Mumm and Elsom gone and Peterson not developing as expected.

backs as much as anything, Tom Carter, Daniel Halangahu, Brackin Karauria-Henry & Trist, maybe Atieli Pakalani.

Even Fitzpatrick, I would want a really, really good medical on the guy

 

[Braveheart81]

Well BKH is definitely gone and all reports suggest Halangahu won't be around next season. I agree that having Trist as part of the EPS is a bit of a waste.

Fitzpatrick is such a risk. After being injured for almost two entire seasons, the Waratahs will look mighty stupid if they keep him contracted next season and he does his knee again.

 

[SuperGrover]

Fitzpatrick is such a risk. After being injured for almost two entire seasons, the Waratahs will look mighty stupid if they keep him contracted next season and he does his knee again.

On the other hand, if they cut him loose and he turns into an injury-free world beater with another franchise, the Tahs will be lambasted for their failure to develop young talent.

 

[qwerty51]

Fitzy's injury problems are because he's a "gym bunny" imo

 

[Hawko]

Fitzy's injury problems are because he's a "gym bunny" imo

This may or may not be true. But Fitzpatrick has had massive criticism on this forum for his lack of size/bulk/muscle, particularly last year. Even LG cast a critical eye over his physique, if I recall correctly. With everyone on his back about bulking up, why wouldn't he spend more time in the gym?

 

[qwerty51]

Really? I find that very hard to believe, he is very big and won the Tahs strongman comp back in 2010 or 2009 I think..

 

[Brumbies Guy]

Really? I find they very hard to believe, he is very big and won the Tahs strongman comp back in 2010 or 2009 I think..

I don't buy it either, he's had that same strong frame since school (the "gym rabbit" appearance someone refered to). He just hasn't been able to stay fit since he impressed all at Aust Schoolboys

 

[p.Tah]

Saw Fitzy in the Supermarket the other week buying about 1000 chicken breasts. He's big but he's not stupidly massive.