Waratahs 2013

[It is what it is]

It is what it is what do you mean by running?
We (Australia generally) need to get away from running 5/8's - what we need is blokes who can distribute the ball to people who are running.
As Mark Ella used to say if he touched it twice someone would score and if he touched it 3 times he would score: I know times have changed and maybe no one is quite Mark Ella but it bears thinking about.

Every player has 3 options when they get attacking ball - run, pass or kick it.
When a 5/8 doesn't run it you've lost 1/3 of your attacking options.
Opposition back rowers run very different defensive angles at the inside backs when they are confident (and almost sure) that the 5/8 isn't likely to run the ball and/or beat them on the inside. When this happens the backline comes under extreme pressure because space and time are taken away.
What makes Dan Carter such a great player is the doubt he puts into the defence, by playing flat, carrying the ball in both hands and mixing up his run/pass/kick choices so often.
Similarly Mark Ella was also able to keep opponents guessing and this created the space and time for his centres (always playing & running straight was probably his greatest strength).
We also need to remember that the way the game is played now, players will shift around during phases in attack.
Carter also does some great running for the AB's when he shifts wider into inside centre.
Love or hate Quade Cooper, but when he's firing he is a master of putting doubt into the defence by mixing up his run/pass/kick options.
Success will come when Cooper can consistently do it without putting doubt into his own backline.

 

[fatprop]

Have to agree with most people's thoughts on AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at #13 - should also be first choice in that role for the Wallabies - here's why http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/who-should-be-the-wallabies-number-13/

a digression from the thread, but

The only thing I would add to the great article is to the comment about who at 12, JOC (James O'Connor) in an attacking unit.

I still think with Beale @ 15 & my preference JOC (James O'Connor) at 14, you still have plenty of ball players out there. I think JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 will suffer the same lack of space issues as you highlighted Digby & Cummins getting. I think Cooper will need a "Nathan Grey" - someone who Cooper can hand the ball to under pressure who will get over the gain line and set up while we realign

In the Tahs context the second ball player would come from 15 (Barnes) and as you highlight AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the right option for 13.

 

[Pete King]

Why?

Cheika has made several comments in interviews regarding his desire for players to be aggressive and abrasive. Tom Carter fits that description perfectly.

Most of Cheika's general comments seem to indicate that Carter has a better chance to be in the starting XV this year than he did last year.

My sources suggest Gafney doesnt rate him

 

[Pete King]

I just don't see Barnes as a willing or natural runner of the ball.
If Foley can step up and play at 10 with composure and some structure it will be hard to see Barnes playing anywhere but full back.

When Barnes runs he can be very damaging, He is a former Mungo remember. I like him at 15 for tahs.

 

[Quick Hands]

The as yet unanswered query on Carter is whether he will be able to instinctively catch and pass in the one movement when quick hands are required to shift the ball wide. Probably at coaches instructions he has fulfilled the crash ball role for both Waratahs and Uni. If he has to pause, think, take 3 or 4 steps before moving the ball, opportunities out wide may be lost.

I'm not saying he can't do it, this will no doubt be answered during the trials.

I also think that Horne should be trialled at 12 at some point to see how he goes.

 

[I like to watch]

Carter is fine with the catch/pass in one movement.He has done this many times to good effect with the Tahs.
Where he gets into problems IMO, is when he has multiple options.By the time he has decided which is his best option, it's too late.
He seems unable to switch from option a to option b,once he has the ball in hand.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Have to agree with most people's thoughts on AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at #13 - should also be first choice in that role for the Wallabies - here's why http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/who-should-be-the-wallabies-number-13/

As always great article.
I was interested in your analysis of the AB's: you point out that they are picking their bigger centre (as we call it) at 12. This is only a more recent development, I reckon, as in the past their 12 has been a true 2nd 5/8 and ball player - hence their frequent decisions to pick the next 10 at 12 early in his career. Do you agree?
So it seems to me that the AB's have actually adopted the Oz definition of what a 12 should be - this may not be permanent and may reflect the highest and best use of Nonu rather than a sea change in NZ philosophy.
You appear to be advocating the NZ model of a 2nd 5/8 at 12, as I understand it (a suggestion I agree with) and you have offered the best analysis I've heard of why JOC (James O'Connor) is the man for that job - although I remain to be convinced of his ability to deal with Nonu, particualry if QC (Quade Cooper) is inside him.
It seems to me that Deans has bought into the present AB thinking by picking the crash ball 12: do you agree?
Depending on how Lilo goes this year he seems to me to offer backup and options for the more expansive game at both 10 and 12 - though the step up is a big one.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Every player has 3 options when they get attacking ball - run, pass or kick it.
When a 5/8 doesn't run it you've lost 1/3 of your attacking options.
Opposition back rowers run very different defensive angles at the inside backs when they are confident (and almost sure) that the 5/8 isn't likely to run the ball and/or beat them on the inside. When this happens the backline comes under extreme pressure because space and time are taken away.
What makes Dan Carter such a great player is the doubt he puts into the defence, by playing flat, carrying the ball in both hands and mixing up his run/pass/kick choices so often.
Similarly Mark Ella was also able to keep opponents guessing and this created the space and time for his centres (always playing & running straight was probably his greatest strength).
We also need to remember that the way the game is played now, players will shift around during phases in attack.
Carter also does some great running for the AB's when he shifts wider into inside centre.
Love or hate Quade Cooper, but when he's firing he is a master of putting doubt into the defence by mixing up his run/pass/kick options.
Success will come when Cooper can consistently do it without putting doubt into his own backline.

Neither Carter nor Ella ever run or ran much on their first touch on first phase - indeed that very fact causes hesitancy in the back row, who are/were, perhaps subliminally, concerned to cover the 2nd touch or the wider break: look how JOC (James O'Connor) beat McCaw on inside step in the videos from Scott Allen (true - I havent worked how Richie came to be that wide yet).
Carter (Dan) also has a complete arsenal: left and right foot kick of all descriptions - long, short, accurate high; long long pass in both directions; reasonable acceleration and top speed; unequalled ability to locate the right weapon for the situation.
Slot in DC or Ella and there are no backline issue at the Tahs.
I am not suggesting never run - I am suggesting precisely what Scott Allen has suggested in his post: attack wider. I would be happy, for instance, for the 5/8 to run it on his first touch and to thereby create the doubt, feeding that doubt from time to time with runs. If you plan your attack wider the loosies will have to direct their attention wider anyway.
The ultimate 5/8 run is the one in the 79th minute when he steps inside (wrong foots) them because the loosies (and others) were covering AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s expected wider raid (IMO). (Ella v Barbarians?)

 

[Scott Allen]

As always great article.
I was interested in your analysis of the AB's: you point out that they are picking their bigger centre (as we call it) at 12. This is only a more recent development, I reckon, as in the past their 12 has been a true 2nd 5/8 and ball player - hence their frequent decisions to pick the next 10 at 12 early in his career. Do you agree?
So it seems to me that the AB's have actually adopted the Oz definition of what a 12 should be - this may not be permanent and may reflect the highest and best use of Nonu rather than a sea change in NZ philosophy.
You appear to be advocating the NZ model of a 2nd 5/8 at 12, as I understand it (a suggestion I agree with) and you have offered the best analysis I've heard of why JOC (James O'Connor) is the man for that job - although I remain to be convinced of his ability to deal with Nonu, particualry if QC (Quade Cooper) is inside him.
It seems to me that Deans has bought into the present AB thinking by picking the crash ball 12: do you agree?
Depending on how Lilo goes this year he seems to me to offer backup and options for the more expansive game at both 10 and 12 - though the step up is a big one.

Off topic for this Waratahs thread but I'll give a quick answer here - I agree that NZ used the 2nd playmaker at #12 model up until Nonu and the change appears to be a move to accommodate him.

I'd be surprised if Deans went the 'crash' baller at 12 as a result of NZ using Nonu there - we don't really have any players in the same mould as Nonu to replicate what NZ have done. I think Deans decided to play more conservatively so didn't need the creativity of a second playmaker at #12 but wanted to keep the ball close to our backrow and wanted a strong defender at #12.

 

[Quick Hands]

Carter is fine with the catch/pass in one movement.He has done this many times to good effect with the Tahs.
Where he gets into problems IMO, is when he has multiple options.By the time he has decided which is his best option, it's too late.
He seems unable to switch from option a to option b,once he has the ball in hand.

I'm referring to the decision making process under pressure rather than the physical capability.

 

[Quick Hands]

Neither Carter nor Ella ever run or ran much on their first touch on first phase - indeed that very fact causes hesitancy in the back row, who are/were, perhaps subliminally, concerned to cover the 2nd touch or the wider break: look how JOC (James O'Connor) beat McCaw on inside step in the videos from Scott Allen (true - I havent worked how Richie came to be that wide yet).
Carter (Dan) also has a complete arsenal: left and right foot kick of all descriptions - long, short, accurate high; long long pass in both directions; reasonable acceleration and top speed; unequalled ability to locate the right weapon for the situation.
Slot in DC or Ella and there are no backline issue at the Tahs.
I am not suggesting never run - I am suggesting precisely what Scott Allen has suggested in his post: attack wider. I would be happy, for instance, for the 5/8 to run it on his first touch and to thereby create the doubt, feeding that doubt from time to time with runs. If you plan your attack wider the loosies will have to direct their attention wider anyway.
The ultimate 5/8 run is the one in the 79th minute when he steps inside (wrong foots) them because the loosies (and others) were covering AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s expected wider raid (IMO). (Ella v Barbarians?)

Very good analysis of good 5/8 play. Catch and pass often early (inside or outside) and as defenders start to drift onto support players pick your times to run. Tired defenders tend to make more bad decisions and hang off the playmaker.

Always, however, be ready, willing and able to run into a hole early if the chance arises. The proper definition of playing what's in front of you.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Always, however, be ready, willing and able to run into a hole early if the chance arises. The proper definition of playing what's in front of you.

Is this what Deans thinks it means?
Is this what his players think it means?
Because I agree with you completely but it doesn't seem to be implemented at any level above club - 'cept the Reds in 2011.
Reading all the prognostications for Cheika (to get this back on topic) he seems to be very strong on this approach.

 

[Quick Hands]

Is this what Deans thinks it means?
Is this what his players think it means?
Because I agree with you completely but it doesn't seem to be implemented at any level above club - 'cept the Reds in 2011.
Reading all the prognostications for Cheika (to get this back on topic) he seems to be very strong on this approach.

I've given up trying to interpret what RD means. If it is what he means, he hasn't been able to communicate it effectively to the Wallabies. (After how many years?)

It's Randwick 101, so I'd assume that Cheika would be strong on it. I certainly hope so.

 

[Lee Grant]

From the Tahs Media Unit
HSBC Waratahs to unveil captain at Season Launch

The HSBC Waratahs’ new captain will be officially announced to members, fans and sponsors at this year’s Season Launch event on February 6.

Hosted by Fox Sports' Commentator Greg Clark, the annual event will take place at the Ivy in Sydney and sees all the 2013 Waratahs Rugby squad join members, sponsors, fans and other special guests to celebrate the arrival of the new Super Rugby season.

With the action just days away, guests will meet the players and sit down to a three course lunch before being treated to an afternoon of live entertainment, including interviews with a panel of special guests, among them HSBC Waratahs head coach Michael Cheika and the team's newly announced captain.

The team’s first chance to impress their home fans will come just eight days later when they host the Crusaders at Allianz Stadium in a trial match that will raise the curtain on the 2013 Super Rugby season. The match kicks off at 7.30pm on Thursday February 14, with entry FREE to HSBC Waratahs members.

Tickets to the match are on sale now from Ticketek priced at $20 for adults, $10 for juniors (age 4-16) and $40 for a family of four.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

I wonder if the description of new captain implies that it won't be Benn Robinson?

Of course there is a strong chance that the person writing the media release doesn't know who the 2013 captain is yet.

 

[TOCC]

Michael Hooper for captain

 

[I like to watch]

I wonder if the description of new captain implies that it won't be Benn Robinson?

Of course there is a strong chance that the person writing the media release doesn't know who the 2013 captain is yet.

There's a strong chance that the writer doesn't know who the 2012 captain was.

 

[Braveheart81]

There's a strong chance that the writer doesn't know who the 2012 captain was.

It was Daniel Halangahu wasn't it?

 

[Lee Grant]

I have no idea if the Tahs will improve in any aspect of back play which many have been talking about in recent posts.

Posters know these things are as old as the hills and will be just as important now as in the past, and will be in the future. One hopes that we will not be talking about them so much next year because they showed improvement in 2013.

What I am 100% sure about is that the Tahs were practising certain things every day I attended training.

- deception before the ball is received
- deception even if the ball is not received
- making moves before the ball is received, not just after
- running square and passing square
- passers not continuing a run toward a gap needed by the receiver
- soft hand drills
- yarda, yarda

I'm not going to report that these were done 100% correctly but I can verify that some colourful language was used.

Cheika does not just comment from the sideline; he is involved as a player in the playing segments at the end of training sessions - and yeah, he does comment.

 

[Jets]

Captain/Coach option?