Waratahs 2012
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
I'm still very confused. Mowen wanted a one-year deal, the Tahs wanted a two year deal. So now Mowen has signed a two year deal at the Brumbies. People can tell me to get over it and move on but I don't like it when one of the two parties has told an outright lie in the media. This is not just a bit of obfuscation, or playing cards close to the chest. Either Mowen wanted a one year deal or not. No amount of "lets move on" changes that someone was outright lying.
rugbysmartarse
Alan Cameron (40)
I may be cynical, but is this a sign that hickey is at risk of being retained? Did mowen figure he wants only 1 year in NSW but 2 with jack white?
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Good one, Lee. :
Mumm gets a lot of bad press. He's the Tom Carter of the forwards - to some the very incarnation of evil and the cause of all that is wrong with the Tahs along with Waugh and Carter. So its hard to evaluate his strengths and weaknesses without causing a firestorm of hatred. But I'm going to have a go anyway. Mumm's good characteristics are that he is an effective lineout jumper, has a huge engine that allows him to hit rucks one after the other and keep up with play in a way that most tight five players can't. He plays much tighter than many people think. The reason he gets accused of sea-gulling is that he is able to run support lines to the outside while other tight five forwards would just be sucking in air. He's pretty quick too. The negatives are that he doesn't seem to hit tackles or rucks as effectively as others do - he's no Kaino or Vickerman. He doesn't seem to have enough core strength. When you consider it, the characteristics he has in spades make him a very suitable 6. I well remember Bob Dwyer suggesting two years ago that he should be put at 6 rather than lock.
So, if Rocky doesn't sign with the Tahs then maybe the way forward is to add Mumm to the backrowers and look to strengthen the locks through recruitment. Remember we still have Cliffy Palu to come back and Locky McCaffrey in development and if he can clear off his injuries and regain his form of two years ago he would strengthen the 6/8 backrow stocks considerably. At lock we have Vickerman, Timani, Douglas with Peterson coming through. Recruiting one more good lock would just about cover it because Mumm and Dennis can both cover lock well if we run into another injury storm.
So we don't have to have Elsom. I'd like to see him back, at his peak and uninjured he is a really special player. (Kaplan hates him which qualifies him automatically). But if it doesn't happen then we do have alternatives and in my view pretty good ones.
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
I sort of agree with you, Hawko, but I should have been more specific- I was referring to LG's insinuation that what is written on these forums is ever wrong.
I'd like Elsom back too, and I think Mumm lacks the power for the second row. But I don't think he's really a good fit for 6 either. More like a poor man's Elsom.
I'd like Elsom back too, and I think Mumm lacks the power for the second row. But I don't think he's really a good fit for 6 either. More like a poor man's Elsom.
Mumm does a hell of a lot of work very, very well.
Is he the most powerful running lock or 6 about, no
Is he the most devastating defensive lock or 6, no
Is he a damn solid, accurate and reliable S15 & test player, clearly yes, but more "Danie Rossouw" than "Victor Matfield"
Rugby to me is about balance, you can't have every player being the kamikaze defenders or waiting to bowl over three defenders, you need the workers as well who do the dog work.
Is he the most powerful running lock or 6 about, no
Is he the most devastating defensive lock or 6, no
Is he a damn solid, accurate and reliable S15 & test player, clearly yes, but more "Danie Rossouw" than "Victor Matfield"
Rugby to me is about balance, you can't have every player being the kamikaze defenders or waiting to bowl over three defenders, you need the workers as well who do the dog work.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Moment of heresy? Apologies in advance.
I know there is a heated division amongst Tahs' fans as to whether any non-NSW and (worse!) non-union players should ever be recruited to the Tahs, but, as I've said prior, I tend to agree with Barbarian that the notion of recruiting a couple of good players from anywhere that new or old NSW fans would actually come to Tahs games to watch (as they did - like it or not - with the last 'big name' league recruits) has merit (if it's concluded that building back crowd numbers is critical for the 2012+ Tahs).
I was watching the SOO III last night and the thought struck me re two players that I think could potentially be excellent recruits for the 2012 Tahs: Slater for 15, and Uate for 11 or 14 (or maybe 13). These are two very talented, electrifying players with the skills that could likely transfer to union. Slater's read from full back is exceptional, as is his pace and consistent tactical nous. Uate is just dynamite, incredible acceleration that continues on, coupled with the instinct for good running lines through traffic.
I know there is a heated division amongst Tahs' fans as to whether any non-NSW and (worse!) non-union players should ever be recruited to the Tahs, but, as I've said prior, I tend to agree with Barbarian that the notion of recruiting a couple of good players from anywhere that new or old NSW fans would actually come to Tahs games to watch (as they did - like it or not - with the last 'big name' league recruits) has merit (if it's concluded that building back crowd numbers is critical for the 2012+ Tahs).
I was watching the SOO III last night and the thought struck me re two players that I think could potentially be excellent recruits for the 2012 Tahs: Slater for 15, and Uate for 11 or 14 (or maybe 13). These are two very talented, electrifying players with the skills that could likely transfer to union. Slater's read from full back is exceptional, as is his pace and consistent tactical nous. Uate is just dynamite, incredible acceleration that continues on, coupled with the instinct for good running lines through traffic.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Ducka has got Crohns disease. I know someone who has it and its tough handling it in normal life, without the problem of being a peak professional player. He's one of my favourite Waratah players and if he comes back I'll be ecstatic. If he does then Mumm at 6 makes even more sense because Ducka is the quintessential tight play lock. But realistically I rate his chances at less than 50%.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
The signing was so expected we had pencilled him in already.
He is a departure from the Waugh tight/loose type of 7 and even on the loose side of McCutcheon in tight play. I the last few weeks of the tournament we saw the good and the bad of his game: the astonishing "covered in snakes and spiders" try against the Brumbies and not getting over to his post on defence which surrendered tries on the high veld.
He doesn't lack ticker though and I am sure his defensive lapses, not so much of tackling, but of making sure he is in the place to tackle betimes, can be addressed.
He is a departure from the Waugh tight/loose type of 7 and even on the loose side of McCutcheon in tight play. I the last few weeks of the tournament we saw the good and the bad of his game: the astonishing "covered in snakes and spiders" try against the Brumbies and not getting over to his post on defence which surrendered tries on the high veld.
He doesn't lack ticker though and I am sure his defensive lapses, not so much of tackling, but of making sure he is in the place to tackle betimes, can be addressed.
T
tranquility
Guest
How did Hooper end up at the Ponies again?
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
I'm liking the team for next year, barrack getting back on the park is still a question mark but he seems to be hopeful of world cup selection so next season looks a bit more positive.
We lost a fair bit of spark with kurtley going but his game will be replaced by hard running and great back up play by AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15, the forward pack looks great, it seems rocky may still end up there that in my opinion only bolsters it and I like the idea of him playing under foley.
Great speed from 9, berrick, Carter, horne, Locky, Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is worthy of doing a fair bit of damage and some speed on the bench to, don't think they have done to bad at all.
We lost a fair bit of spark with kurtley going but his game will be replaced by hard running and great back up play by AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15, the forward pack looks great, it seems rocky may still end up there that in my opinion only bolsters it and I like the idea of him playing under foley.
Great speed from 9, berrick, Carter, horne, Locky, Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is worthy of doing a fair bit of damage and some speed on the bench to, don't think they have done to bad at all.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
fatprop
You don't have to be as good as Hooper, Pocock or Gill to be very good nevertheless.
There's not a lot of 7's in Sydney that are straining at the leash and most of them have been looked at by Super outfits already: Jono Jenkins, Sam Latinupulu, Lala Lam and Kotoni Ale, for example. Miles McCaffrey is promising but he's a couple of years away. You couldn't say any of them would be better than Alcock or McCutcheon with certainty.
Most Tahs fans were baying for Beau Robinson to have his contract renewed but Link obviously decided against it then he lost his job too. I can't recall if Hickey was installed in time to re-sign Beau but I think he was. It was extraordinary that the Tahs left themselves exposed without a backup 7, and that was in 20/20 foresight, not hindsight.
There hasn't been a decent NSW Schools 7 since Hooper either, and that was in Yr.11 as he missed his rugby in his last year at school. Before that you'd probably have to go back to Smith and Waugh though memory fades a bit.
Not to the point of the next couple of years at the Tahs but NSW Schools has a good 7 this year. Gordon Broome is a cross between Simon Poidevin and Hannibal Lecter. I don't think that he's going to be a big enough man to play pro rugby but if he ever is, he'll be a good 'un, though there is madness in him.
You don't have to be as good as Hooper, Pocock or Gill to be very good nevertheless.
There's not a lot of 7's in Sydney that are straining at the leash and most of them have been looked at by Super outfits already: Jono Jenkins, Sam Latinupulu, Lala Lam and Kotoni Ale, for example. Miles McCaffrey is promising but he's a couple of years away. You couldn't say any of them would be better than Alcock or McCutcheon with certainty.
Most Tahs fans were baying for Beau Robinson to have his contract renewed but Link obviously decided against it then he lost his job too. I can't recall if Hickey was installed in time to re-sign Beau but I think he was. It was extraordinary that the Tahs left themselves exposed without a backup 7, and that was in 20/20 foresight, not hindsight.
There hasn't been a decent NSW Schools 7 since Hooper either, and that was in Yr.11 as he missed his rugby in his last year at school. Before that you'd probably have to go back to Smith and Waugh though memory fades a bit.
Not to the point of the next couple of years at the Tahs but NSW Schools has a good 7 this year. Gordon Broome is a cross between Simon Poidevin and Hannibal Lecter. I don't think that he's going to be a big enough man to play pro rugby but if he ever is, he'll be a good 'un, though there is madness in him.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Obama has signed? I thought he was already contracted.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
They should make him captain, he shows great diplomacy and is attack minded.
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