Waratahs 2012

[Empire]

Quoting Lee Grant: ' I don't think that he's going to be a big enough man to play pro rugby'

How small is small for a 7 LG? Every time someone mentions this, I remind them of one Neil Back. At an exaggerated 5"10' and 90 odd kgs, he certainly wasn't a titan and yet his achievements don't need repeating.

As a guy of smaller stature, he is one guy I certainly took heart from watching back in '03!

At any rate, it'd be nice to see a true heir apparent to Phil Waugh...

 

[Bruce Ross]

I'm liking the team for next year, barrack getting back on the park is still a question mark

Obama has signed? I thought he was already contracted.

They should make him captain, he shows great diplomacy and is attack minded.

An excellent rally developing here, blistering forehands and clever drop shots.

 

[Hawko]

fatprop

You don't have to be as good as Hooper, Pocock or Gill to be very good nevertheless.

There's not a lot of 7's in Sydney that are straining at the leash and most of them have been looked at by Super outfits already: Jono Jenkins, Sam Latinupulu, Lala Lam and Kotoni Ale, for example. Miles McCaffrey is promising but he's a couple of years away. You couldn't say any of them would be better than Alcock or McCutcheon with certainty.

Based on his performances for the Force this year, Jenkins would be well in front of Alcock and McCutcheon. If Lam is as good as his brother you'd choose him too over the incumbents. You don't win Super rugby with an average 7, you can have some journeymen elsewhere but not 7 (or 10 for that matter). Neither Alcock nor McCutcheon showed they will be top class based on this year's performances. Surely the Tahs recruiters could lure Jenkins with a full contract, he's not going to get much game time at the Force for years.

 

[Lee Grant]

Jenkins has been released by the Force. I remember Lance Free on the Force thread saying that; so they didn't rate him as a back up to Pocock. Sure Hodgson can play there but why did they contract him in the first place? And why then release him?

The Rebels have had a good look at Lala Lam for their A team but not picked him up. Ditto Sam L.

This prior testing at a higher level than club rugby of these fellows, then their rejection or being overlooked, was behind my writing that you couldn't say they were better than Alcock or McCutcheon with certainty for Super Rugby. You appear to be certain and that's fine with me.

Quoting Lee Grant: ' I don't think that he's going to be a big enough man to play pro rugby'

How small is small for a 7 LG? Every time someone mentions this, I remind them of one Neil Back. At an exaggerated 5"10' and 90 odd kgs, he certainly wasn't a titan and yet his achievements don't need repeating.

He was one out of the box for a very light fellow wasn't he? And there wasn't a lot of change after 90kgs. I still can't work out why he was such an effective player as he wasn't exactly a gifted athlete - just one of those little guys with a burning desire to succeed.

You may have changed my mind about Broome talking about Backy. There's not much of him either but he's a better athlete than Backy was on his best day.

It is remiss of me to talk about a current schoolboy like this so I will say: "Watch this space" though if folks see him near McDonalds they could buy him a few hamburgers.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

the tahs are building up to a 2007 bulls type of team: strong pack, flashy scrumhalf, no flashy outside backs, just hard toilers. If coached properly they could go alraight. Big IF though...

 

[waratahjesus]

The bacline might not have great individual spark to it but damn the first choice is going to be full of hardfast runners.

 

[fatprop]

Lee

I want the Tahs to have a player roster capable of competing for Wallaby spots in every position.

3 of the other Aus teams are now stocked up with young 7s, the next special 7 that comes along won't be looking to sit in a long queue at the Brumbies, Reds or Force.

So the Tahs will be competing with the Rebels over the next batch IMHO.

As for the Tahs backline for next year, it lacks guile and appears to be very "NH/Bok like" powerful, fast and direct. With Barnes on the field, I see a pretty effective running unit for Barnes to hit.

Without Barnes I have major concerns about the Tahs breaking down the top defenses

 

[Lee Grant]

Agree doesn't quite do it. Everybody wants his team to have Oz candidates in every spot. All I was saying earlier is that there hasn't been a young NSW 7 destined to to emerge in Super Rugby since Hooper, and that you couldn't say with certainty that any 7 in Sydney was better suited to Super Rugby than the two the Tahs have.

You could say it, that is opinion, but not with certainty.

Agree on the likely blandness of the Tahs backs next year, as I have written earlier in the thread. Sarel will bring a bit of X-factor to counter that and hopefully Horne will be fully fit. One has to suspect the worst that he won't be and nor will Barnes' problems be resolved.

Their biggest problem will probably be at flyhalf - but we have heard that song before.

 

[Hawko]

Jenkins has been released by the Force. I remember Lance Free on the Force thread saying that; so they didn't rate him as a back up to Pocock. Sure Hodgson can play there but why did they contract him in the first place? And why then release him?

The Rebels have had a good look at Lala Lam for their A team but not picked him up. Ditto Sam L.

This prior testing at a higher level than club rugby of these fellows, then their rejection or being overlooked, was behind my writing that you couldn't say they were better than Alcock or McCutcheon with certainty for Super Rugby. You appear to be certain and that's fine with me.

Those Force selectors must be hard markers, I thought Jenkins was outstanding - 53 tackles made, 1 missed in 205 minutes of game time. That's an average of 21 tackles per game with virtually a 98% success rate. If there are better tackling stats in the Super comp I've definitely missed them; Saffy was a dud by comparison and Pocock got only 17 per game with a higher missed tackle percentage. If I was Jono Jenkins I'd be very pissed off to get canned on those stats.

Lala Lam is a don't know for me. But our provinces don't have a great record on talent evaluation. Jack Lam was looked at and rejected by our provinces and this year was one of the Hurricanes best (yes I know the Hurricanes weren't so hot, but they were better than three of our provinces). I'd like to see Lala get a go, what I saw of him in Shute was impressive, but maybe he only plays OK when the match is televised.

Identifying the best talent and bringing them on is the most difficult skill for a coach, but I don't think the Tahs have a great track record post-Link. In making the statements I have, I guess I set myself up as an authority with keyboard experience only, but I think the facts (stats) speak for themselves on Jenkins vs Alcock and McCutcheon. On Lam, I'd just love to see him get an opportunity to prove his worth. I think he'd do OK.

 

[Lee Grant]

Yeah I think the younger Lam will do OK. He's a different player to big brother, who did as well in Super Rugby as many thought he would before he left.

Jack was a natural for the Brumbies, being local, but his family chose the wrong place to settle down here in that regard. Smith and Salvi were there when Jack came of rugby age and he wasn't the kind of sexy 7 that takes the eye. He was, and is, a hard nosed kind of counter-ruck 7 though somebody will probably tell me that he had a million ruck turnovers this year.

Lala is more the explosive TPN type of player if he played the position. Maybe if the Rebels didn't acquire Lipman he would have got a Super spot and ditto for Sam L. as both were looked at by them. Getting a lot of foreigners in to help the Rebels with their transition was a good idea I thought, because we didn't have the depth, but it was always going to marginalise domestic players.

I brings us back Hawko to the ARC. One of the great things about it was that we could see club players playing hard games week after week and being able to assess them for the few rookie spots that were still open for the following year, but more certainly for pro academy spots, the stepping stone for rookie contracts the year after that.

This is more or less the Kiwi system.

Presently there is too much reading of the tea leaves and hoping for the best.

 

[fatprop]

Sitaleki Timani could play on in Australia next season despite signing with a Japanese club

Bret Harris
The Australian
July 12, 2011 8:02AM


Timani, who was named in the Wallabies' 40-man squad on Sunday, has signed with Japanese club Canon Eagles but is talking to New South Wales Waratahs about returning next year.

At the start of the year, Timani was not in the frame to start for the Waratahs let alone play for Australia, which means Canon would have expected to have him for the entire Japanese season.

Timani was in Japan when Wallabies coach Robbie Deans called him to inform him he had been chosen in the 40-man squad.

Asked whether World Cup selection would influence his decision, Timani said: "If they pick me for the World Cup, I'll definitely be staying over here.

"We haven't signed anything yet. We've just talked about it. See how I go here and see what happens after that. I'm just taking one step at a time."

Born in Tonga, Timani moved to Australia five years ago. He made his Super Rugby debut with Western Force in 2008 and spent the next two seasons with the Brumbies before joining NSW.

He played more games at the Waratahs (14) this year than he did at the Force and Brumbies combined (11).

After establishing himself in the starting line-up, Timani was highly impressive for the Waratahs in the second half of the season. He credited his outstanding form to the Waratahs allowing him to play his natural game.

 

[fatprop]

Berrick Barnes begins World Cup push

Lindsay Clement-Meehan
From: The Daily Telegraph
July 12, 2011 12:00AM


BERRICK Barnes' push for a place in Australia's World Cup squad will resume on Monday when he returns to training with Sydney University.

Barnes has not played since mid-June due to an ongoing case of "footballer's migraine" which ended his Super Rugby campaign. The Waratahs playmaker said he was feeling positive about his health and looking forward to resuming full training.

 

[Richo]

Good news, fp. Here's hoping Berrick goes okay in his run.

 

[fatprop]

Yeah Aus rugby, and of course the Tahs, is better for having a fit and firing Barnes availalbe

 

[Lee Grant]

It's a bit confusing what Timani said but his English is not that good.

I still think that we should lock him in with a gig in the matchday 22 against Samoa.

He is a mercenary and folks may turn their noses up at that but it could be win-win. If he is good enough to play for the Wallabies for a few years he could increase his price tag and attract the attention of rich overseas clubs.

If he is just a one season wonder, as Samo appeared to be after 2004, then picking him would disadvantage a born and bred Aussie player this year because there will be only 4 lock spots for the RWC, but I think he is worth a punt.

I would understand opinions that mercenaries should not be advantaged by Wallaby selection as it sends the wrong message, but there was earlier talk in the papers that he and the other brothers support an extended family in Oz and Tonga and we should not turn our noses up at that.


As for Berrick: everybody will wish him well and won't be thinking too much about the Tahs and Wallabies when they wish it.

 

[Lee Grant]

On Timani - a quote from a article mentioned in another thread:

Timani signed with the Canon club in Japan last January. Following the end of the Waratahs' Super Rugby campaign, Timani headed to Tokyo and was planning to play his first match there this week.

However, the call-up saw him abandon those plans, while his elevation to the Wallabies' ranks means that as soon as he makes the Test line-up he will be unable to represent Tonga at the World Cup.

But Timani emphasised yesterday his international plans now revolve around the Wallabies, where there is a chance of him one day playing against his older brother, Sione, who is in the Tongan squad.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...abies-start-20110711-1haug.html#ixzz1Rr1c8v95

 

[qwerty51]

Lopeti is sticking around with the Tahs right?

 

[Hawko]

Lopeti is sticking around with the Tahs right?

I hope so!

 

[Lee Grant]

There's been no mention of it one way or the other. He's still probably a couple of years off playing Super Rugby but the promise is there. He may have to move clubs to get regular 1st grade gigs though.

We'll find a home for him at the Rats - we're that kind of caring people.

 

[S120]

I'd be more than happy for Alcock to be our starting 7 for the year next season. I think he has more than enough ability to play consistent rugby in the S15. Dominates Shute Shield and has only impressed me when playing for the Tahs. I don't mind McCutcheon but I just worry about his proneness to make silly errors. Whether they be ball handling (where I think Alcock is far better) or at the breakdown. I just think Alcock is the "cleaner" (for want of a better word) player.