Waratahs 2012
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
Dont you think the brumbies already have too many backrowers?
The brumbies need locks and wingers. Not backrowers and inside backs.
I see Mowen going to the reds or rebels, or overseas....
jauzy19
Ward Prentice (10)
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
How much of this is the Tahs being told by Uncle JON that they had to sign Elsom. He is unwanted by the Ponies, Link wouldn't have him at the Reds, Saffy is better at the Rebels and Elsom has impolied he isn't interest and the Force have four Wallaby backrowers already.
Given the fact that it was very likely that Elsom was going to be signed by the ARU he HAD to be given a spot at the Tahs or the ARU would be in the position of havzing a contracted player inelligible to play for the Wallabies and that player being the annointed Captain.
Is this the first time that the Oz Captain has been told he is unwanted by a team and nobody was that interested in signing him. If he does go to the Tahs I think you will see Waugh walk.
Given the fact that it was very likely that Elsom was going to be signed by the ARU he HAD to be given a spot at the Tahs or the ARU would be in the position of havzing a contracted player inelligible to play for the Wallabies and that player being the annointed Captain.
Is this the first time that the Oz Captain has been told he is unwanted by a team and nobody was that interested in signing him. If he does go to the Tahs I think you will see Waugh walk.
rugbysmartarse
Alan Cameron (40)
No, that's a bit cynical
That's my issue. If we have seen nothing this year, it is that squad depth is paramount, and Elsom is a reasonable risk, for mine.
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
I can't understand why elsom is not going to the rebels. Saffy can play 6 or 7, and with the way injuries are elsom could be a very valuable addition. He's Australian captain and was born in Melbourne, surely if they are willing to sign an over the hill mortlock, they are also willing to throw some money at a class back rower like elsom?
darkhorse
Darby Loudon (17)
I don't think it is so much a case of them not wanting him, but him not wanting to go to them.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Yes and no.
The Brumbies are in need of another big 6/8 along with a lock.
The problem is that with the 3 opensides on the roster we'll only have enough room to sign a lock who can maybe cover 6/8.
However, that could change depending on what Hoiles does. At this stage he's still signed on for next year but I was under the impression that he had a get out clause?
It wouldn't be the worst idea with Moore looking like being the next captain, and Vaea in good form.
And it would be interesting to note how many games Hoiles' has actually captained for the Brumbies with his run of injuries. I would think it would be less than George Smith and Giteau.
HodgoBerro
Bill Watson (15)
Sos Anesi off to Japan.
Won't play for Waikato in ITM Cup.
Won't play for Waikato in ITM Cup.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Is Hoiles signed for next year? I can't see White thinking much of him. After the way Vaea has played this year, I would let Hoiles loose.
Interesting reading in Gagger's excellent stats-based analysis of the likely suspects for 6 for the Wallabies.
It reinforces in my mind why letting Ben Mowen go was short-sighted. A good, solid 6 who does most aspects well.
Also shows what Rocky actually does on the field, which is probably more than many of us give credit for.
It reinforces in my mind why letting Ben Mowen go was short-sighted. A good, solid 6 who does most aspects well.
Also shows what Rocky actually does on the field, which is probably more than many of us give credit for.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
BJ could confirm this, but I'm certain he's signed on for next year but he still has the option to cut loose.
I would love to see the back of Salvi, but it wouldn't be the worst thing to lose Hoiles and try to make room for a player like Mowen.
The Brumbies need a big imposing backrower who will get through all the tough work, and as Gagger's article shows he's the best candidate for this.
Plus with Chapman going the Brumbies could do with another excellent lineout option, and Mowen is just as good as Chapman in a defensive lineout.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
No idea what this is doing in the Waratahs 2012 thread.
The Waratahs had a huge problem with the availability of Elsom. Clearly Elsom, if fit, is a standout player and a good acquisition. But the list of backrowers already at the Tahs is substantial. Apart from Waugh and Palu, who are now approaching veteran status, none of the players on the backrow list looks to be obviously "international" class. The list includes:
Alcock: For two years now has been the "fetcher" we had to have to back up Waugh. Unfortunately he lacks one characteristic a 7 has to have. He has to be a reliable and effective tackler. Twice this year Alcock has misses 50% of his tackles. In a team that prides itself on defence he doesn't fit well.
Dennis: A hardworking journeyman super player who can fit in at lock or 6. I think the reason he's staying is that his versatility at lock has got him the nod.
McCaffrey: Two years ago was the best player in Shute. Injury has cruelled his last two years, I don't think he has one appearance to his name. In Shute he's an 8, in Super rugby he lacks Palu's impact to make it as an 8 and is listed as a 6. Could be something if he can stay uninjured, but probably only a journeyman.
McCutcheon: Highly thought of by the Tahs as a replacement for Waugh but clearly limited as a fetcher. Came through the sevens, has a lot of skills but doesn't have the ability to generate turnovers and his games this year have been very inconsistent.
Mowen: The best backrower this year. Not an impact player like Palu, but effective round the park and a great pilferer at the lineout. Should have been retained and used next year as a lock.
Palu: A genuinely world class player at his peak but now very susceptible to injury. If he doesn't make the WC a full pre-season might help him to restore his body to its former toughness.
Perrett: A Shute replacement who has showed in his appearances that he should have been picked up by one of the franchises years ago. Sadly now too old to be a long term prospect.
Waugh: A genuinely world class player despite his detractors, he is now not recovering from injury as he used to and will retire this year or next.
Lopeti Timani: In the juniors. If he develops like his brother could be Palu's replacement.
Easy to see why Hickey's worst contribution during his stay has been in squad development. Of all the younger backrowers, only Timani might develop into a regular Wallaby starter and he's not even got a proper contract yet. Waugh, Palu, Elsom was the starting backrow under Link. All were internationals. None of Hickey's recruits has developed significantly and the best of them, Mowen, is being released. Whoever is the new coach next year is getting a poisoned chalice. It will take at least 12 months to identify and recruit replacements for Waugh, Palu and Elsom. You can't win a Super title without at least two internationals in the backrow. The most successful team in the comp, the Crusaders, has had three or more for as long as I can remember.Dennis: A hardworking journeyman super player who can fit in at lock or 6. I think the reason he's staying is that his versatility at lock has got him the nod.
McCaffrey: Two years ago was the best player in Shute. Injury has cruelled his last two years, I don't think he has one appearance to his name. In Shute he's an 8, in Super rugby he lacks Palu's impact to make it as an 8 and is listed as a 6. Could be something if he can stay uninjured, but probably only a journeyman.
McCutcheon: Highly thought of by the Tahs as a replacement for Waugh but clearly limited as a fetcher. Came through the sevens, has a lot of skills but doesn't have the ability to generate turnovers and his games this year have been very inconsistent.
Mowen: The best backrower this year. Not an impact player like Palu, but effective round the park and a great pilferer at the lineout. Should have been retained and used next year as a lock.
Palu: A genuinely world class player at his peak but now very susceptible to injury. If he doesn't make the WC a full pre-season might help him to restore his body to its former toughness.
Perrett: A Shute replacement who has showed in his appearances that he should have been picked up by one of the franchises years ago. Sadly now too old to be a long term prospect.
Waugh: A genuinely world class player despite his detractors, he is now not recovering from injury as he used to and will retire this year or next.
Lopeti Timani: In the juniors. If he develops like his brother could be Palu's replacement.
Given that the best forwards coach in Australia, Axel Foley, is the Tahs forward coach, it is a mystery why the best recruits have gone to Queensland and Perth. The next head coach has to reverse the trend and recruit future internationals into the squad otherwise the Tahs are on a downhill slope to the bottom of the table.
S
stusker
Guest
Waugh must be displaced for Elsom, should he not be in the mood to kiss and make up.
Some money should be found for Haskell, especially is Waugh leaves/is righly punted.
We are probably right for 2012 in the FR and Super Rugby, although the shambolic loss of Plamer could come hime to roost now Baxter has retired. Paddy Ryan better be good. Tilse-Hayman - dear me 6 seasons now.
We need centres now Barnes is crocked, Horne is a sicknote and Carter/Cross get gigs. Farque me what a shambles the Tahs recrutment team is.....biggest, richest city in the S15 and we have to put up with such dross.........
Some money should be found for Haskell, especially is Waugh leaves/is righly punted.
We are probably right for 2012 in the FR and Super Rugby, although the shambolic loss of Plamer could come hime to roost now Baxter has retired. Paddy Ryan better be good. Tilse-Hayman - dear me 6 seasons now.
We need centres now Barnes is crocked, Horne is a sicknote and Carter/Cross get gigs. Farque me what a shambles the Tahs recrutment team is.....biggest, richest city in the S15 and we have to put up with such dross.........
S
stusker
Guest
In addition, Liam Gill please, as Reds have Robinson.
Will the Timani's leave for Japan?
Will Vicks come back well next year?
Will Tahs recruit some O.S. guns for next year??
Will the Timani's leave for Japan?
Will Vicks come back well next year?
Will Tahs recruit some O.S. guns for next year??
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I would keep Waugh before I took Elsom. The Tahs have a better 6/8 in Mowen who is a long term investment. Elsom will at best play one season for the Tahs and be off next year IMO. I agree 100% with Hawko that Hickey has done Zero for the Tahs long term (or short term IMO) and should have been punted last year.
G
gladiator
Guest
would like to see = pakalani trialled at outside centre for waratahs
= pat maccabe at inside centre for wallabies .
= pat maccabe at inside centre for wallabies .
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