Waratahs 2011

[Lee Grant]

Didn't have time to post this last night.

Samoa A 35 - Junior Tahs 12

The JWs were thrashed yesterday by a team that were sharper, more enthusiastic and more aware of try scoring possibilities. Samoa had some terrific players: 2. Fualau was a veritable TPN; 9. Fagasoaia was dynamite on the snipe and hard to stop even when the JWs knew he was going to, and the rangy 14. Esau made some super breaks.

The Tahs played well in the 1st half and their set pieces were pretty good throughout the match but they were sluggish in the 2nd half and their defensive patterns failed time after time.

It was a pretty good JW team too: 1. Tilse, 2. Ulugia, 3. Ryan, 4. Mathers, 5. Peterson, 6. Latekefu, 7. Doyle, 8. L. Timani, 10. Volavola, 11. Saifoloi, 12. Latunipulu, 13. Kingston, 14. Shortland, 15. Batger. Reserves 16. N.Seymour, 17. Faulkner, 18. Gower, 19. M.McCaffrey, 20. Grayson, 21.Vakakura, 22. Hartman.

The contracted players played well enough but there were some disappointing performances. Some who played better were:

• 9. Josh Holmes had a good first half and made one of the Tahs tries with a long break and kick to the corner for his winger to run on to.

• 8. Lopeti Timani is very raw like his big brother but there is potential there.

• 13. Tom Kingston was outstanding again and made a break or half break most times that he got the ball which was not often enough.

 

[jauzy19]

Was in an article about Beale on Foxsports. http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...-rugby-franchise/story-e6frf4qu-1226013899238

I would be very happy if Burgess signed for us.

 

[Upright]

• 13. Tom Kingston was outstanding again and made a break or half break most times that he got the ball which was not often enough.

Lee, not surprised that Kingston didn't see much of the pill as the 10,11,and 12 you listed are hardly noted passers of the ball - they will learn to though otherwise their footbll careers will be rather more painful than they imagine.

 

[MrMouse]

Lee, not surprised that Kingston did see much of the pill as the 10,11,and 12 you listed are hardly noted passers of the ball - they will learn to though otherwise their footbll careers will be rather more painful than they imagine.

I actually thought Saifoloi was pretty good in the Nowra trial at 10. Interestingly, I thought his problem was lack of top end pace (acceleration great, through holes, but got run down every time). Also not sure how 11's ball distribution would affect a man inside him? Agree that whilst it's ok to have a crashball 12, 10 and 12 together who don't pass is a bad idea.

 

[Hawko]

Fatprop posted something a day or two ago about the Waratahs needing to improve greatly their accuracy at the ruck. It didn't excite much comment at the time, but its been gnawing away at me for a while. I want to pose the question "Why weren't the Waratahs 30 points up at half time?" I think its an important question because in the first half they were totally dominant, but only 10 points in front. The finishing was quite clinical when it came but only twice did we get across the line. We are going to have to do far better up against the Crusaders this weekend in converting advantage into points. I've got a few suggestions why but I don't think I have the full picture:

1. The Reds have been panned by most critics but maybe they weren't quite as bad as it looked at first glance.

2. We missed a lot of kicks in the first half. This is something we have to correct. I hope Barnes is spending all his recovery time practising putting the ball over from anywhere. This week Hangers will kick and he's pretty accurate but he has a limited range. We will need to have Kurtley to step up for the longer kicks.

3. Fatprop was right, I remember that a couple of times the ball spat out of the ruck or cannoned forward off someone's foot and caused us to turn ball over in their 22 when we were hot on attack. Like our tackling, a little less enthusiasm and a lot more control would prevent errors and injuries. We need to control the ball at the back of the ruck before we go again. This is not a license to meerkat! We all saw how this totally wrecked the Reds momentum when Genia did it, we just need to make sure the ball is held stationary before Burgo moves it.

4. Lawrence didn't give much reward to the dominant team, especially in the scrum. A call of advantage when the Reds front row was popped or collapsed would have helped hugely.

That's what I saw but I don't think that's the half of it. What else did others see?

 

[Bruce Ross]

I haven't noticed any mention of John Eales's comments in Monday's Herald:

The Waratahs showed once again, however, that Queenslanders don't have a mortgage on passion. They were outstanding. Well led by Phil Waugh, while he was on the field, they were clinical and ruthless, precise and passionate. There were no passengers, only pilots, wearing blue.

Among their stars stood Tatafu Polota-Nau: Robbie Deans will be thrilled to have him back in the Wallaby squad this year. Of course, there were also the usual suspects in Berrick Barnes, Drew Mitchell, Rob Horne and Kurtley Beale who consistently looked dangerous. But add to them Tom Carter. Carter's contribution is becoming more evident and more valuable with time. He is a big man with more skills than he is often credited. He may not be as flamboyant as others in his backline but he fits. Cricketer Larry Gomes was hardly calypso but he counter-balanced his more flashy partners perfectly; Carter does the same.

 

[Hawko]

I haven't noticed any mention of John Eales's comments in Monday's Herald:

The Waratahs showed once again, however, that Queenslanders don't have a mortgage on passion. They were outstanding. Well led by Phil Waugh, while he was on the field, they were clinical and ruthless, precise and passionate. There were no passengers, only pilots, wearing blue.

Among their stars stood Tatafu Polota-Nau: Robbie Deans will be thrilled to have him back in the Wallaby squad this year. Of course, there were also the usual suspects in Berrick Barnes, Drew Mitchell, Rob Horne and Kurtley Beale who consistently looked dangerous. But add to them Tom Carter. Carter's contribution is becoming more evident and more valuable with time. He is a big man with more skills than he is often credited. He may not be as flamboyant as others in his backline but he fits. Cricketer Larry Gomes was hardly calypso but he counter-balanced his more flashy partners perfectly; Carter does the same.

Just read the article, I missed it earlier. I agree with everything he said about the Tahs, especially the comments about Carter. The Larry Gomes analogy is spot on.

 

[Lee Grant]

Hawko - on the accuracy around the ruck:

I can't remember the causes of why the ball spat out but typically when you drive past the ball as the Tahs have been doing, instead of stopping at the ball and being vulnerable to counter-rucking, that can happen a bit - the feet can accidentally pin-ball the pill even when it's nearly out. It's part of the territory of physical play.

Correcting it is coachable. Some players have deficiencies that are hard to spot. Some props can scrummage and watch them run around the park - but ask their lineout jumpers what they are like at lifting and you may get a negative response. Likewise some forwards are clumsy and can do dumb things like get in the way around the ruck and even be accidental kickers of the ball back out of the ruck.

Can't say that I have observed who are the main culprits are in the Tahs but I'd warrant their team mates know who the Mr. Clumsies of the team are. They are probably the worst dancers.

 

[cyclopath]

Just read the article, I missed it earlier. I agree with everything he said about the Tahs, especially the comments about Carter. The Larry Gomes analogy is spot on.

'Cept Larry was way cool, and would have picked up more...

 

[WB3]

I would consider the solid, dependable one of the Tahs backline to be Horne. He isn't necessarily flashy but he creates space through his hard running and great line selection. When he sucks in defenders the blokes outside him have the skill to finish what he often creates.

Carter is playing better footy recently but I don't class him as Wallaby standard and am unlikely to in the near future.

 

[waratahjesus]

I would consider the solid, dependable one of the Tahs backline to be Horne. He isn't necessarily flashy but he creates space through his hard running and great line selection. When he sucks in defenders the blokes outside him have the skill to finish what he often creates.

Carter is playing better footy recently but I don't class him as Wallaby standard and am unlikely to in the near future.

horne has alot of room because of what carter does though. saying any 13 in the country creates gaps themsleves is an absolute joke. Carter is a constant threat to the line therefore hornes opposite have to hang back and wait to see if he rns or not creating space for horne.

 

[BRIX]

I would consider the solid, dependable one of the Tahs backline to be Horne. He isn't necessarily flashy but he creates space through his hard running and great line selection. When he sucks in defenders the blokes outside him have the skill to finish what he often creates.

Carter is playing better footy recently but I don't class him as Wallaby standard and am unlikely to in the near future.

I agree with this sentiment. Although I think his a good footballer, I think too much praise has been heaped on Tommy boy too early. He seems to have a good rugby brain and does everything with calculated guile. I'm not ready to right him off about being a Wallaby but I think a lot of people would like to see some more explosiveness and higher tempo play from him.

I remember a few threads ago after the Rebels match people talking up his catching and passing but I'll contend that thats part of his job description. I've had a good laugh at him on his own cost for some time now and don't think I necessarily believe what I'm saying is true if I'm being completely honest with myself, and put aside the comical aesthetic his game provides. Genuinely look forward to seeing him continue his form, this season means a lot to him and I look forward to him raising the bar for himself. The cheeky doubters will be watching and admiring no less

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Some of the ball spilling from the ruck was the reds fault, mostly via their counter rucking, and we couldn't control it. I thought burgess was not a quick to the Rick as he was against the rebels, and his (or another players) presence to catch or control the ball as it bounced out would have helped.

The crusaders will ruck harder than anyone so we need to get this spot on.

 

[WB3]

horne has alot of room because of what carter does though. saying any 13 in the country creates gaps themsleves is an absolute joke. Carter is a constant threat to the line therefore hornes opposite have to hang back and wait to see if he rns or not creating space for horne.

I am not sure in what sense Carter is a constant threat to the line other than in his general (less so lately) reluctance to pass. His shining moments tend to be when he chooses to distribute the ball after committing his man and I am glad that this is becoming a bigger feature of his game. Horne, on the other hand, sucks in defenders by running clever lines and often requiring more than one man to bring down. When Carter does his job well, Horne is thus able to do his better as well because as you said Horne's defender has to allow him more space.

I'm not saying Horne is the single reason the Tahs backline is good; that would be an absolute joke. I am merely saying that his consistent ability to benefit those around him through his clever play in my eyes outstrips Carter's.

If the sentiment behind your comment is "Horne benefits from Carter's good work", then yes I agree completely in the same sense that I suggest those outside Horne benefit from his good work. If it is that "Horne relies on Carter to do anything good" then I disagree in the same sense that I would not say Mitchell needs Horne inside him to fire.

Hopefully that cleared things up

 

[nathan]

I'm not saying Horne is the single reason the Tahs backline is good; that would be an absolute joke. I am merely saying that his consistent ability to benefit those around him through his clever play in my eyes outstrips Carter's.

If the sentiment behind your comment is "Horne benefits from Carter's good work", then yes I agree completely in the same sense that I suggest those outside Horne benefit from his good work. If it is that "Horne relies on Carter to do anything good" then I disagree in the same sense that I would not say Mitchell needs Horne inside him to fire.

Hopefully that cleared things up

This reminds me very much of the Nonu/Smith pairing when everyone used to have bad wraps about Nonu's one dimensional play. After a couple of seasons on working on his offloading/passing and even kicking, it greatly benefited Smith's play too. I'm not saying TC's got anywhere near Nonu's game, it's just a very similar situation.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I am not sure in what sense Carter is a constant threat to the line other than in his general (less so lately) reluctance to pass. His shining moments tend to be when he chooses to distribute the ball after committing his man and I am glad that this is becoming a bigger feature of his game. Horne, on the other hand, sucks in defenders by running clever lines and often requiring more than one man to bring down. When Carter does his job well, Horne is thus able to do his better as well because as you said Horne's defender has to allow him more space.

I think a very important element in Carter's importance to the team is the fact that there are normally two opponents who have to be fully or partially committed to tackling him. Very rarely do you see him brought to ground by a single tackler. Then as you suggest, WB3, Horne is so forceful attacking the line that there is a need also for "more than one man to bring down".

In addition the fact that Carter and Horne are both top class defenders provides the midfield stiffening and structure which enables the team to have virtually no gaps in the defensive wall.

If people looked at the situation objectively rather than death-riding one player they might conclude that we have a formidable centre pairing.

 

[WB3]

^ I'll concede that.

 

[chriss555]

Objectively TC is a good jounery/team man who to date is doing the job well for the Tahs. But one feels that once a better player is un-earthed he will drop out of the 22. Its not a matter of if but when.

 

[Lee Grant]

We've being saying that for a while but more than one coach has seen value in him. My only beef with him was that, as good as he was in some aspects of play, he was a bit of a firewall to the ball going wider.

I don't know what it is - Carter playing smarter or the forwards being more dominant, but I think he's playing better this year. He is passing the ball more and when it should be, but straightening when he should be. Yes I have seen exceptions when that didn't happen but that is the vibe of it. I love the vibe.

And he is a diligent player, the kind that coaches love. For example - who is the fellow first to chase a kick time after time (if it is not Turner) - Carter. These work ethic practices are under valued yet they have effect.

Tom is not a natural in open space without close support. Some of the skills required for that can be acquired but alas many of them are intuitive. Some Sevens type training will do him no harm. Send him to the Oz Sevens camp for a day or two.

Yes, one day he will be overlooked for a more brilliant player but coaches love the meat and potatoes guys otherwise Carter's name wouldn't be in the match programme so often.

 

[Hawko]

We've being saying that for a while but more than one coach has seen value in him. My only beef with him was that, as good as he was in some aspects of play, he was a bit of a firewall to the ball going wider.

I don't know what it is - Carter playing smarter or the forwards being more dominant, but I think he's playing better this year. He is passing the ball more and when it should be, but straightening when he should be. Yes I have seen exceptions when that didn't happen but that is the vibe of it. I love the vibe.

And he is a diligent player, the kind that coaches love. For example - who is the fellow first to chase a kick time after time (if it is not Turner) - Carter. These work ethic practices are under valued yet they have effect.

Tom is not a natural in open space without close support. Some of the skills required for that can be acquired but alas many of them are intuitive. Some Sevens type training will do him no harm. Send him to the Oz Sevens camp for a day or two.

Yes, one day he will be overlooked for a more brilliant player but coaches love the meat and potatoes guys otherwise Carter's name wouldn't be in the match programme so often.

Just rewatched the Fox 90 minute version of the Tahs/Reds game (this is starting to become an addiction, watching the Reds get smashed). Carter is putting people into space more and more. The Burgo, Carter, Beale episode in the second half included a nice soft pass from Carter that Beale dropped cold with the tryline open. If Beale had taken that, Carter would have been lauded even more. I've got a good feeling about the Carter - Horne brick wall, there aren't many centre combinations that could stand up to SBW/Fruean but I have no worries there.

This week will be a huge step up but we won't be embarrassed, and surely this time we might get the rub of the green.