Waratahs 2011
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Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Does the CEO or the board make the decision on the next coach? That is the key to the revival of the Tahs as a franchise, getting a coach who can finally realise the dream of playing Waratah-type winning rugby. Jason Allen seems to have experience on the marketing and sales side of the business, but to guarantee marketing success long term you have to have the product right. It certainly is not that now. To get the membership up you need to provide them with something they can believe in and want to come and see. When the Waratah members can think of nothing else all week but how good the running rugby is going to be on Friday nights, then the franchise will be successful.
It depends, they appear to have gone for someone to drive revenue.
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
I don't want to knock the bloke - he needs our sympathy and prayers having to work with that board - but if there's one thing that rugby in this town lacks it's tribalism.
So what does Mr Jason Allen bring to the table in terms of rugby and sporting credentials?
He has had two years "as chief executive of the South Australian Motor Sport Board, the organisation responsible for Australia’s largest and most-awarded sporting event, the Clipsal 500 V8 Supercars race." That's not sport, that's event management in a provincial city.
Previously he was "National General Manager of Consumer Sales, Vodafone Australia Pty Ltd" during which he "managed many direct sponsorship links with sport including Rugby, and was responsible for Vodafone’s joint major sponsorship of the Port Adelaide AFL Club." Sponsors are a bit like racehorse owners who pay the bills and as a reward get to pat the horse after a win.
We're also informed that he is "a National Director on the Variety Australia Board." The Variety Club very worthily provides money for charitable purposes, but does so largely by being a networking vehicle for those who either have a quid or would like people to think they have. Likewise with the Chairman's Clubs at the various Kick-it-to-me clubs like Port Adelaide.
So that's it. No involvement with rugby other than working for a company which was the sponsor for our national team.
Waratahs Rugby chairman Edwin Zemancheff says that Jason Allen was "the best candidate to complement the on-field success of the HSBC Waratahs by growing the business and enhancing existing revenue streams." Get that, his role is about growing the business and enhancing revenue. No wonder Waratah rugby has for so long been an exemplar of the headless chook model of organisational behaviour when the CEO is not expected to concern himself with mundane matters such as the actual sport itself.
How much damage has been done to rugby by people infesting boards who view it not as a sport but rather as a business which they then proceed to run very poorly?
So what does Mr Jason Allen bring to the table in terms of rugby and sporting credentials?
He has had two years "as chief executive of the South Australian Motor Sport Board, the organisation responsible for Australia’s largest and most-awarded sporting event, the Clipsal 500 V8 Supercars race." That's not sport, that's event management in a provincial city.
Previously he was "National General Manager of Consumer Sales, Vodafone Australia Pty Ltd" during which he "managed many direct sponsorship links with sport including Rugby, and was responsible for Vodafone’s joint major sponsorship of the Port Adelaide AFL Club." Sponsors are a bit like racehorse owners who pay the bills and as a reward get to pat the horse after a win.
We're also informed that he is "a National Director on the Variety Australia Board." The Variety Club very worthily provides money for charitable purposes, but does so largely by being a networking vehicle for those who either have a quid or would like people to think they have. Likewise with the Chairman's Clubs at the various Kick-it-to-me clubs like Port Adelaide.
So that's it. No involvement with rugby other than working for a company which was the sponsor for our national team.
Waratahs Rugby chairman Edwin Zemancheff says that Jason Allen was "the best candidate to complement the on-field success of the HSBC Waratahs by growing the business and enhancing existing revenue streams." Get that, his role is about growing the business and enhancing revenue. No wonder Waratah rugby has for so long been an exemplar of the headless chook model of organisational behaviour when the CEO is not expected to concern himself with mundane matters such as the actual sport itself.
How much damage has been done to rugby by people infesting boards who view it not as a sport but rather as a business which they then proceed to run very poorly?
inthestands
Sydney Middleton (9)
I think some people need to take a deep breath here. NSWRU split the game into two bodies: NSWRU (Participation) and Waratahs Rugby (professional). One is responsible for 'the game' and the other for the 'business of rugby'.
In essence, NSWRU at the participation level will roll on like it always has in terms of Subbies, Country, Premiership (under the new SRU), Juniors, Women, Schools etc, with ARU now responsible for development not just in NSW but in a roll-out all across the country. Anyone who plays at these levels knows that the game will never die, it will have ebbs and flows, but the volunteers keep it going year to year to year regardless of how the Tahs are faring.
The only way to create more money to flow back into participation rugby is for the professional game to excel both on the field and off the field.
In terms of on-field, the coaches need to be able to coach with the Board not getting involved. Do you think O'Neill was telling Deans what to do after the Wallabies lost to Scotland? Of course he wasn't. So unless you're going to get rid of Hickey & co, the Board and this new CEO should stay out of footy.
What they need to do is support the team (which despite not winning a title) has gone ok in recent times (four semis in six years, two finals, and last year they coupled the second best defence with the third-best attack). That means creating a better experience for fans, fighting for favourable kick-off times with SANZAR (although the broadcasters seem to get the biggest say here), lifting membership and getting the turnstiles ticking again. Maybe this means using some 'marketing' budget to get 'marquee' players or something like that... not sure what it will be, but given Clipsal 500 isn't giving this bloke up until November, I imagine they're pretty pissed off he's leaving.
Essentially, let's see if this guy is better or worse than L'Estrange, Neill etc before saying the Board made a bad call. It's not long since O'Neill was considered the best sporting administrator in the country and what was his background? Banking, not sports admin.
In essence, NSWRU at the participation level will roll on like it always has in terms of Subbies, Country, Premiership (under the new SRU), Juniors, Women, Schools etc, with ARU now responsible for development not just in NSW but in a roll-out all across the country. Anyone who plays at these levels knows that the game will never die, it will have ebbs and flows, but the volunteers keep it going year to year to year regardless of how the Tahs are faring.
The only way to create more money to flow back into participation rugby is for the professional game to excel both on the field and off the field.
In terms of on-field, the coaches need to be able to coach with the Board not getting involved. Do you think O'Neill was telling Deans what to do after the Wallabies lost to Scotland? Of course he wasn't. So unless you're going to get rid of Hickey & co, the Board and this new CEO should stay out of footy.
What they need to do is support the team (which despite not winning a title) has gone ok in recent times (four semis in six years, two finals, and last year they coupled the second best defence with the third-best attack). That means creating a better experience for fans, fighting for favourable kick-off times with SANZAR (although the broadcasters seem to get the biggest say here), lifting membership and getting the turnstiles ticking again. Maybe this means using some 'marketing' budget to get 'marquee' players or something like that... not sure what it will be, but given Clipsal 500 isn't giving this bloke up until November, I imagine they're pretty pissed off he's leaving.
Essentially, let's see if this guy is better or worse than L'Estrange, Neill etc before saying the Board made a bad call. It's not long since O'Neill was considered the best sporting administrator in the country and what was his background? Banking, not sports admin.
Jethro Tah
Bob Loudon (25)
We don't necessarily need a rugby head to run the business, and like it or not, it has to be run as a business. The globe is scattered with companies where the person running the show knows very little about what the company actually produces. The President and CEO of Ford Motors since 2006, Alan Mulally, was responsible for steering the company through the auto industry crisis without needing to be bailed out by the US tax payer, and it was his first job in the auto industry. An obscure example, yes I know, but it all comes down to the person and whether they can manage and adminstrate a business/rugby club rather than whether that person knows the difference between a LHP and a THP. Let's gave him a chance before criticising the decision.
R
Red Rooster
Guest
Interesting you cite Fraser Neill - He was the last CEO to make a profit at NSWRU. In fact he did it three years in a row. He was of course sacked by the NSWRU Board for not being a marketing expert (He was an accountant). His replacement Jim L'Estrange was hired for his marketing background and has failed to deliver a profit despite the team making the semis and finals. He of course blamed the GFC but those closer to the organisation know why - now the joint is split, with even less prospects of making money due higher admin costs - The Board does not have a history of good decision making, hopefully they have fluke'd it with this guy
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
inthestands, you have neatly encapsulated the mess that those seat cushions that sit around the board table in this state have led us to. "The game" is parcelled off to the participation level while the State's flagship team is all about "the business of rugby". For most of us tragics rugby is not a "business"; it is a game, a sport, and at a very fundamental level a culture. Those administering our sport need to have a deep appreciation of and understanding of that culture.
Can you imagine those running the AFL, the exemplar of how to run and develop a sport in this country, splitting it up into "the game" and "the business of Australian football"?
The inference that John O'Neill "stays out of footy" is laughable. It would be difficult to think of a sporting CEO who is more interventionist.
So the coach is going to be essentially left with responsibility for everything other than lifting memberships and attendances because the CEO has to "stay out of footy".
Let's have a look at that. The announcement of his appointment was on September 17. He then works out the basic one month's notice which takes him to October 17, give or take a day. Let's assume he takes a couple of weeks to have a breather and to relocate the family to Sydney. That takes him to "early November" as the press release stated. I fail to see how you can draw any conclusion about the emotional state of his previous employers from the timing of his commencement with the Waratahs.
Bruce
Rugby is a business now especially at S15 level. The team is expected be professional and succeed, hobby driven management can only get a business so far (as most rugby boards demonstrate). Eventually you have to get the revenue.
I don't see how you can think the CEO won't be responsible for lifting memberships and attendances, a CEO staying "out of footy" is keeping off the training field and getting his job done, his quote earlier said it reasonably well
Rugby is a business now especially at S15 level. The team is expected be professional and succeed, hobby driven management can only get a business so far (as most rugby boards demonstrate). Eventually you have to get the revenue.
I don't see how you can think the CEO won't be responsible for lifting memberships and attendances, a CEO staying "out of footy" is keeping off the training field and getting his job done, his quote earlier said it reasonably well
observer
Tom Lawton (22)
Bruce, I love your passion but sometimes that gets in the way of clear thinking. I believe NSW rugby have done the right thing with the splitting of the two roles. We are in a very competitive market place for sponsorship dollars and marketing and if it isn't done professionally by the best people available then the game of rugby will suffer in the long run.
MrMouse
Bob Loudon (25)
None of that will matter diddly shit - whilst ever they (the administration) treat members like giant dollar signs, and continue to undervalue their fealty, loyalty and passion for the Tahs, member numbers and attendance will slide regardless of results, and with them sponsorship dollars, thereby killing overall revenue.
I have to agree at least in part with Bruce that any CEO coming in has to understand sporting club culture, members' mindsets and the fundamental culture of the game in order to succeed. I don't believe the game in NSW needed to be split, but I sure as hell think it needed fresh, professional management by people with an understanding of how to run a football club. If splitting is the only way to do that, so be it.
I'll reserve my judgement on Mr Allen, but his priors aren't promising.
I have to agree at least in part with Bruce that any CEO coming in has to understand sporting club culture, members' mindsets and the fundamental culture of the game in order to succeed. I don't believe the game in NSW needed to be split, but I sure as hell think it needed fresh, professional management by people with an understanding of how to run a football club. If splitting is the only way to do that, so be it.
I'll reserve my judgement on Mr Allen, but his priors aren't promising.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
The fact that successive Waratahs coaches have betrayed, yes Betrayed, the Waratahs historical brand of play for the percenatges play that was a by product or the drive for a finals position and itself a focussed drive from the Board level. It is ironic that the Tahs in successive year failed at the final hurdles because they were unused to playing a truly expansive game. Note that more people still gush over the high quality and thrilling nature of the Reds season, win or lose, than people discuss any of the Tahs games.
Whilst we have blamed the coaches for the Tahs dire conservative game it has been driven more by the board room requirements and pressure put on the coaches than the coaches themselves I think. Hence why successive coaches renowned for running play and flowing backline moves stuck with the narrow bash and barge that has ben a feature of the Waratahs S14 teams for a long long time now.
I only hope that this new structure will allow the Tahs to play like they did in the past, a bit like the Reds did this year with the hard drive from the pigs mixed in. Remember the Rod Macqueen Tahs smashing Wales anyone?
Whilst we have blamed the coaches for the Tahs dire conservative game it has been driven more by the board room requirements and pressure put on the coaches than the coaches themselves I think. Hence why successive coaches renowned for running play and flowing backline moves stuck with the narrow bash and barge that has ben a feature of the Waratahs S14 teams for a long long time now.
I only hope that this new structure will allow the Tahs to play like they did in the past, a bit like the Reds did this year with the hard drive from the pigs mixed in. Remember the Rod Macqueen Tahs smashing Wales anyone?
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
I, for one, have had a very successful career in general management in a sporting organisation, whose sport I had absolutely no interest in, or aptitude for. Management is management, good managers should be able to make a contribution in most organisations.
Gary Flowers was a rugby man, and I doubt that too many of us would judge his stewardship of the ARU to have been a great success.
Incidentally, if the incoming CEO has a good grasp of the ins and outs of sponsorship, that will do me for starters - sponsorship is the single most important issue for the Waratahs, on or off the field.
inthestands
Sydney Middleton (9)
Well, this issue has clearly polarising, isn't it.
Bruce - you said 'For most of us tragics rugby is not a "business"; it is a game, a sport, and at a very fundamental level a culture.' I agree with you. However in a competition spanning three countries with multi-million $ rosters of all teams and the financial success of the organisations running them reliant purely on the sales of memberships, tickets and merchandise, it is the absolute definition of a business. If Rugby can do for its so-called 'tragics' what V8s have done for rev-heads around the country over the last 10-15 years, then bring it on. It is one of the biggest sports in the country, has massive corporate support, huge merchandise sales and crowds are always big. Gone are the days of poultry crowds at Amaroo and Oran Parks... now every round is an event and even the middle east pays big bucks to take rounds internationally. The culture is still there, but the sport has grown considerably. This is the type of thing Rugby at the professional level needs to learn.
Also Bruce, a quick Google search will teach you Allen resigned from Clipsal 500 in July; given its a senior exec position with a government dept (SA Motor Sport Board), they're clearly not letting him go before at least 3 months is up.
Red Rooster - always wondered about the Neill 'resignation' and L'Estrange signing the very next day. Does anyone know what Fraser is doing now? Also, what are the increased costs at the moment? Seems like staff has dwindled at NSWHQ, with the only possibility of a new cost being the new NSWRU CEO/GM/EM/COO. SRU will surely need to fund their own admin now that they've broken away; can't see them getting any increased funding than what was already catered for at NSWRU.
Mr Mouse - priors aren't promising? We're a bit narrow-minded to think administrators cannot cross codes and be successful executives. O'Neill & Carroll (rugby) with the resurrection of soccer, Buckley (AFL) to soccer, Oakley (AFL) is heading to the Rebels and no one is writing him off, Reid (basketball) is doing his best at the moment at the Force, as is Carmichael (AFL) at the Reds.
Wamberal - interested in your thoughts given your background; did you ever get involved in the 'on-field' aspect of 'play' when in a sports admin role, or did you leave it to the personnel employed to do that?
Gnostic - haven't all teams gone inherently conservative? I think administrators want 'entertainment', but coaches need to be able to exhibit a winning record to their next employer. Phil Mooney might have had the most entertaining side in the comp from 2007-09, but they only won 8 of 39 matches. Next job? Otago. Not exactly a step up.
Bruce - you said 'For most of us tragics rugby is not a "business"; it is a game, a sport, and at a very fundamental level a culture.' I agree with you. However in a competition spanning three countries with multi-million $ rosters of all teams and the financial success of the organisations running them reliant purely on the sales of memberships, tickets and merchandise, it is the absolute definition of a business. If Rugby can do for its so-called 'tragics' what V8s have done for rev-heads around the country over the last 10-15 years, then bring it on. It is one of the biggest sports in the country, has massive corporate support, huge merchandise sales and crowds are always big. Gone are the days of poultry crowds at Amaroo and Oran Parks... now every round is an event and even the middle east pays big bucks to take rounds internationally. The culture is still there, but the sport has grown considerably. This is the type of thing Rugby at the professional level needs to learn.
Also Bruce, a quick Google search will teach you Allen resigned from Clipsal 500 in July; given its a senior exec position with a government dept (SA Motor Sport Board), they're clearly not letting him go before at least 3 months is up.
Red Rooster - always wondered about the Neill 'resignation' and L'Estrange signing the very next day. Does anyone know what Fraser is doing now? Also, what are the increased costs at the moment? Seems like staff has dwindled at NSWHQ, with the only possibility of a new cost being the new NSWRU CEO/GM/EM/COO. SRU will surely need to fund their own admin now that they've broken away; can't see them getting any increased funding than what was already catered for at NSWRU.
Mr Mouse - priors aren't promising? We're a bit narrow-minded to think administrators cannot cross codes and be successful executives. O'Neill & Carroll (rugby) with the resurrection of soccer, Buckley (AFL) to soccer, Oakley (AFL) is heading to the Rebels and no one is writing him off, Reid (basketball) is doing his best at the moment at the Force, as is Carmichael (AFL) at the Reds.
Wamberal - interested in your thoughts given your background; did you ever get involved in the 'on-field' aspect of 'play' when in a sports admin role, or did you leave it to the personnel employed to do that?
Gnostic - haven't all teams gone inherently conservative? I think administrators want 'entertainment', but coaches need to be able to exhibit a winning record to their next employer. Phil Mooney might have had the most entertaining side in the comp from 2007-09, but they only won 8 of 39 matches. Next job? Otago. Not exactly a step up.
R
Red Rooster
Guest
Inthestands - I gather Fraser Neill has ended up at the AJC. I hear he has just been promoted to the Chief Operating Officer Role after a long period as a consultant to the AJC and its associated businesses -
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Not only does the CEO of a company not need to be an expert on the products of the company in order to be sucessful, but an organisation doesn't even need to produce the best products in order to be successful (case in point - think of fast food giants....it is all about marketing and almost nothing about quality produce).
The guy whose job it is to get the Waratahs making a profit need not know about rugby, nor is it even necessary (although very desirable to me) that the Waratahs are sucessful on field, for him to do an excellent job.
As for the Reds - Bring them on! We rolled them this season and we'll rolll them next, especially as their best player has moved back to NZ.
The guy whose job it is to get the Waratahs making a profit need not know about rugby, nor is it even necessary (although very desirable to me) that the Waratahs are sucessful on field, for him to do an excellent job.
As for the Reds - Bring them on! We rolled them this season and we'll rolll them next, especially as their best player has moved back to NZ.
R
Red Rooster
Guest
"As for the Reds - Bring them on! We rolled them this season and we'll rolll them next, especially as their best player has moved back to NZ."
Langthorne - there is no doubt you ended up scoring more points at the death but "rollling" them I think not - even their coach admitted that NSW were out played. I too look forward to the encounter - playing at Homebush is like playing at a neutral venue and we know the NSW fans that can be bothered to head West will do so under duress - If the Reds win it will be a very unpleasant experience all round for NSW players and supporters
Yes we will miss Braid, then again we were supposed to miss Barnes - How's he going by the way? I've see him appearing on the field at the end of the odd test match - I hear he is heading o/s after the RWC so you will have to make plans to poach another
Langthorne - there is no doubt you ended up scoring more points at the death but "rollling" them I think not - even their coach admitted that NSW were out played. I too look forward to the encounter - playing at Homebush is like playing at a neutral venue and we know the NSW fans that can be bothered to head West will do so under duress - If the Reds win it will be a very unpleasant experience all round for NSW players and supporters
Yes we will miss Braid, then again we were supposed to miss Barnes - How's he going by the way? I've see him appearing on the field at the end of the odd test match - I hear he is heading o/s after the RWC so you will have to make plans to poach another
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Defeated = Rolled (based on the final score in a match of 80mins)
Barnes is doing pretty well. Played his first ever s14 semi final this season, for the highest ranked Australian team, having completed a clean sweep over all the Australian teams. His opportunities for the Wallabies have been limited of late, but he has done some pretty handy things when given the chance. Sadly he couldn't do much to change the results against the ABs whilst sitting on the bench.
There has been so much crap spouted about how great this or that fringe Reds player is that I'm very keen to have these theories tested and disproved again.
Oh, and for me a trip to Homebush would be a trip East.
Barnes is doing pretty well. Played his first ever s14 semi final this season, for the highest ranked Australian team, having completed a clean sweep over all the Australian teams. His opportunities for the Wallabies have been limited of late, but he has done some pretty handy things when given the chance. Sadly he couldn't do much to change the results against the ABs whilst sitting on the bench.
There has been so much crap spouted about how great this or that fringe Reds player is that I'm very keen to have these theories tested and disproved again.
Oh, and for me a trip to Homebush would be a trip East.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
I was heavily involved in strategy development, and you cannot develop strategy in a sporting organisation without ensuring that the experts are fully involved - and I would never, ever, go against expert technical advice. I might change the advisors, if their advice was consistently wrong or impractical, though.
An anecdote about the involvement of rugby administrators in the game - some years ago I became friends with a chap called Wayne Morrison. Wayne is a former league player, and the father of Glenn Morrison, quite a handy player at the time. At the time of which I speak, an old friend of mine was the Chairman of the ARU. Wayne was aware of my background in the game, and was also aware that I knew the then Chairman. One day he told me that Glenn was looking around and would be prepared to consider a stint in our game. I thought then, and still do, that he could have been a very good backrower in rugby. I rang my friend at the ARU, and he told me that he never, ever, got involved in player selection, contracts, retention, or any of the operational/technical aspects of the game.
At the time I thought he was being a bit precious, but that was the way he worked.
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