Waratahs 2011

[Eyes and Ears]

Interestingly Sipa is still on the Brumbies website while other leaving players like Mafi have been removed.

 

[Lee Grant]

Manu needs to lose the baby fat and get working. Both our props struggled in the U20s final against fitter and better technical units.

He has the look of a guy who has got where is through his size, to go to the next level it takes effort because there everyone else is as big as him.

Points taken but the props weren't the only forwards so embarrassed. Actually chuck in the whole team.

Googled Fine M, he is rated pretty highly at the Roosters so it's a great pickup for the Tahs. What year was he at school?

I assume Zipper is Taumoepeau. I don't understand why they don't play him as a centre, most probably a 12.

Salesi Manu would be another who would be best suited to moving to the Rebels to improve his rugby development as well IMO. He looked quite good playing for the Australian Under 20 side over in Argentina and has impressed me in the few Manly games I've seen him play.

Eddie Aholelei has been one who has impressed me.

• Fine M's last year at school was 2007. When he played Oz A his rivals in the Oz Schools team Ones were wingers Taumoepeau and Tomane (NRL now) and fullback Toua (Reds). If he is highly rated by the Roosters and he decided to come back to rugby union on his own terms, then I'm a bit more interested. Did you save any links to that opinion?

• Correct, Zipper is really Sipa a contraction of his first name, Afusipa. Agree with your later post about him as a 12 because he has the attributes to be both a crashballer and to use his hands at or before a tackle Though I saw him play there for Joeys once against Scots when a few lads were sick I can't remember how he went and it doesn't signify much anyway.

• Salesi Manu. It would be good for his rugby to get into the Rebels pro academy as you say, but Super squads don't hire pro academy props just to develop their rugby. They may carry a couple of young stars in some positions to warehouse them but in the main they want their players, especially their couple of props, to be ready to go.

If fatprop's opinion of Manu is correct then it's better that he play a 3rd year of grade, but he will have to play 1st Grade to benefit much and it will be tough for Manly to justify using him instead of Fairbrother or Eddie A .

• Eddie A is the better bet for a pro academy if he can leave his day job. He's big enough at 120kgs (down from 140 in his young days) and old enough at 28; plus he can play big club games well at THP though his background is as a LHP. With the loss of weight in the last few years he's become a good player who a few of us are talking about now.

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[rugby_man]

Points taken but the props weren't the only forwards so embarrassed. Actually chuck in the whole team.



• Fine M's last year at school was 2007. When he played Oz A his rivals in the Oz Schools team Ones were wingers Taumoepeau and Tomane (NRL now) and fullback Toua (Reds). If he is highly rated by the Roosters and he decided to come back to rugby union on his own terms, then I'm a bit more interested. Did you save any links to that opinion?

• Correct, Zipper is really Sipa a contraction of his first name, Afusipa. Agree with your later post about him as a 12 because he has the attributes to be both a crashballer and to use his hands at or before a tackle Though I saw him play there for Joeys once against Scots when a few lads were sick I can't remember how he went and it doesn't signify much anyway.

• Salesi Manu. It would be good for his rugby to get into the Rebels pro academy as you say, but Super squads don't hire pro academy props just to develop their rugby. They may carry a couple of young stars in some positions to warehouse them but in the main they want their players, especially their couple of props, to be ready to go.

If fatprop's opinion of Manu is correct then it's better that he play a 3rd year of grade, but he will have to play 1st Grade to benefit much and it will be tough for Manly to justify using him instead of Fairbrother or Eddie A .

• Eddie A is the better bet for a pro academy if he can leave his day job. He's big enough at 120kgs (down from 140 in his young days) and old enough at 28; plus he can play big club games well at THP though his background is as a LHP. With the loss of weight in the last few years he's become a good player who a few of us are talking about now.

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It's clicked now. Was Fine M the winger for GPS that year outside Mitchell and Taumoepeau? He had a hell of a game against CAS IIRC, scored a few tries and made a few big tackles. Very handy player. He was apparently training with the NRL squad. Found this link from google - http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=348690&page=3

I always thought watching Taumoepeau in his school years, he would be very handy as a 12 and I would have thought the higher powers thought the same. Obviously not. IMO he has never been quick enough to play on the wing or even as a 13. It's a shame if the Brumbies really have released him. He would be a good addition to the Tahs pro academy but I''d doubt he'd would settle for that, especially after being on a S14 contract this season.

Eddie Aholelei would be a good addition for any S15 pro academy but I've watched Ofa Fainga'anuku closely this season and he is a very good player. I have no doubt he could handle himself if through into the S15 side.

 

[Lee Grant]

• Yeah that was he, and you have just reminded me that that was another time Zipper played 12. He had to play wing of course for the NSW Is that year; you couldn't argue about the midfield of 12 Rob Horne and 13 Cam Mitchell. Bennetts had to play on the other wing. I thought Zipper, of all the brothers, would make the grade in Super rugby but it doesn't look like it will be the case.

• Couldn't find much about Fine M on that link that he was rated by the Roosters.

• Eddie A and Ofa - I've been pushing their barrow in this forum for a while now: two hard head props and Eddie can play on both sides these days. Maybe we are over rating them because we see them only in club rugby, but without the ARC how can we tell?

 

[lily]

I never really thought Cross was a good signing, but come to think of it, if we get an injury in the centres, he could be extremely useful and important to the team. The fact that he can also cover the wing position, especially with the extended season, is another bonus. He has experience at the highest level and even though he had a poor season for the Force this year, I can see him improving with our expansive running game if given the chance.

In regards to Greg Peterson, I am very happy to see him retained as the Force were sniffing around and making enquiries about his availability. I think he can really excel next year with another year training with the S15 squad. Tim Bennetts, I hear he is most likely to be retained in the pro academy set-up so Cameron Mitchell might struggle to secure a pro academy gig. Fine Moekiola (not sure on the spelling) has been signed into pro academy so that's another spot taken. Also Alfi Mafi I'd imagine will be looked at as he is not being re-signed by the Brumbies again for next season. Afusipa Taumoepeau has also been a victim of the Brumbies cleanout so I'd definitely look at signing him.

Whatever happened to Salesi Manu? I know he is currently playing with Manly but why isn't he with the Tahs? I asked my source and the reply was that he didn't get resigned. I thought he was very good in the Australian Under 20 side. If we develop him, he could be a good gun in the near future.

He signed an academy deal straight from school. He was offered one again, problem was that it was for a pittance. He needed to work so he couldn't afford to be in their academy. This is why alot of the CHS boys and to a lesser extent private school boys turn down this opportunity.

 

[rugby_man]

• Yeah that was he, and you have just reminded me that that was another time Zipper played 12. He had to play wing of course for the NSW Is that year; you couldn't argue about the midfield of 12 Rob Horne and 13 Cam Mitchell. Bennetts had to play on the other wing. I thought Zipper, of all the brothers, would make the grade in Super rugby but it doesn't look like it will be the case.

• Couldn't find much about Fine M on that link that he was rated by the Roosters.

• Eddie A and Ofa - I've been pushing their barrow in this forum for a while now: two hard head props and Eddie can play on both sides these days. Maybe we are over rating them because we see them only in club rugby, but without the ARC how can we tell?

That is a superb schoolboy backline isn't it with the likes of Horne, Mitchell, Taumoepeau and Bennetts. I remember Taumoepeau being very classy as a 12, even when he was opposed by Horne in the GPS v CHS game. I'd be disappointed if the Waratahs aren't looking into signing Taumoepeau. He can cover a few positions in the backline. But in saying that, we've signed Cross for his versatility in being able to play in the centres as well as the wing. So I doubt we'll be able to sign Taumoepeau.

That link was where I got the info he was training with the NRL side. Here is the link where it seems Fine Moekiola was to be kept on, but mind you it seems it is a forum link so might take it with a grain of salt. Few posts in, mentions something about him bring kept on by the Roosters. http://thechookpen.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=2981&page=2

How good was the ARC? Might of cost the ARU a fair bit of money but it was a wonderful spectacle IMO. The teams were very competitive, although the crowds were woeful. Fringe players were given the chance to play in a higher level than club rugby and some proved to be very handy players. It would be great to have it come back in a similar format. I can guarantee Oz rugby would benefit immensely from it being re-introduced.

 

[Lee Grant]

How good was the ARC? Might of cost the ARU a fair bit of money but it was a wonderful spectacle IMO. The teams were very competitive, although the crowds were woeful. Fringe players were given the chance to play in a higher level than club rugby and some proved to be very handy players. It would be great to have it come back in a similar format. I can guarantee Oz rugby would benefit immensely from it being re-introduced.

The crowds were woeful indeed and it was expensive but we could be talking about the Sheffield Shield, or whatever they call it this week. It's the best domestic cricket comp in the world and ticks all the cricket boxes. The thing is though that Oz Cricket has enough revenue to subsidise it but Oz rugby doesn't for the ARC.

A great pity that because the ARC ticked all the rugby boxes and not just for players, but for budding referees and coaches also.

Most players for the following Super14 season were chosen by the time the ARC was on but it gave players a shot to be picked for pro academies which is the stepping stone for Super rugby the year after.

I think we'd see a few more mature players in pro academies with a reprise of the ARC, as the elite youngsters are fairly well known already.

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[rugby_man]

The crowds were woeful indeed and it was expensive but we could be talking about the Sheffield Shield, or whatever they call it this week. It's the best domestic cricket comp in the world and ticks all the cricket boxes. The thing is though that Oz Cricket has enough revenue to subsidise it but Oz rugby doesn't for the ARC.

A great pity that because the ARC ticked all the rugby boxes and not just for players, but for budding referees and coaches also.

Most players for the following Super14 season were chosen by the time the ARC was on but it gave players a shot to be picked for pro academies which is the stepping stone for Super rugby the year after.

I think we'd see a few more mature players in pro academies with a reprise of the ARC, as the elite youngsters are fairly well known already.

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I'm all for it. I believe if it ran for a few more years, it wuold have eventually got the support it needed to get off the ground and become a successful competition in it's own right. Just like every competition when it is first introduced, it originally struggles but I think they should have persisted with it a bit longer than they did. But understandably, the revenue wasn't enough to keep it afloat for another few years. Mature players such as Josh Gamgee, Ben Ward etc. could have had the chance to mix it with some of the more elite players who are aligned with S15 clubs and gained more exposure which in turn would increased their chances of snapping a spot in the academies of the S15 franchises.

 

[#1 Tah]

I was at camp for the 2nd half of this week, so didnt get to any club rugby, but apparently McKibben, Toomooa, Edmonds and Delit from easts had blinders and cross was average.

 

[Lee Grant]

He [Manu] signed an academy deal straight from school. He was offered one again, problem was that it was for a pittance. He needed to work so he couldn't afford to be in their academy. This is why alot of the CHS boys and to a lesser extent private school boys turn down this opportunity.

lily - missed this 1st time around, so thanks for the info. Yeah he was in the amateur academy in 2009 so I assume you are saying that he was offered a pro academy contract for 2010 as they did offer him some money, albeit a pittance.

We make these assumptions don't we: that players aren't in the pro academy because they aren't rated whereas they can't afford not to have a real job. Likewise fellows don't offer themselves for the amateur academy, especially if they are not staying with their parents and/or it doesn't give them time for Uni or other studies.

Given the info from topo that Tahs pro academy guys get only $10K - $15K per year, it's not surprising that Salesi turned the pro opportunity down for 2010, but it's good that he was offered it.

We also wonder sometimes that good schoolboy players disappear or don't go too far beyond Colts - if that; but we wrongly assume that their goal was to be a professional rugby player.

There are more things in life.

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[topo]

Lee, absolutely correct. I know of several players who have turned down pro academy because they have day jobs and can't afford the time off to train. The time commitment is pretty demanding from Nov - Feb with most sessions in work hours. It works well for students who are on holidays at that time and still drawing their youth allowance to support themselves, but not those with real jobs.

 

[fatprop]

Lee, absolutely correct. I know of several players who have turned down pro academy because they have day jobs and can't afford the time off to train. The time commitment is pretty demanding from Nov - Feb with most sessions in work hours. It works well for students who are on holidays at that time and still drawing their youth allowance to support themselves, but not those with real jobs.

It is a shame the Tahs don't think outside the square and set up twilight training through Nov - Feb, they play at night anyway and at that time of the year it would be cooler

 

[#1 Tah]

It is a shame the Tahs don't think outside the square and set up twilight training through Nov - Feb, they play at night anyway and at that time of the year it would be cooler

Or some sort of beach-7s-rugby competition...

 

[AussieDominance]

Jason Seage with the Junior Waratahs.

 

[Lee Grant]

In what capacity? Pro or amateur?

For folks who don't know him: Seage is one of those lads who play both codes of the game. Earlier this year he was starting halfback for the Parramatta SG Ball (U/18.) league team, runners-up to the Roosters in the final. He also plays rugby union for the Hills Sports High School, an emerging rugby union schools power, albeit with a few future Toyota Cup (U/20) league players in their 1st XV.

In rugby union he was the fullback for the CHS rep team and wing for NSW II Schools. He missed out on selection in the two Oz Schools teams; so he doesn't sound like he's much, but he's a terrific ball runner and is obviously a versatile player.

Even if he's in the amateur group it's significant because he's willing to take a risk in rugby union. If things don't work out for him he still has time to go back to league and get into a Toyota Cup squad in 2012, but he would have lost his SG Ball brownie points by then.

If observer reads this he could give folks a better assessment of Seage than I could.


Not to the point but has anybody seen 2009 Oz Schools fullback Jake Woodhouse play this year? He is in the 2010 Tahs pro academy and reportedly had a 3 year Tahs deal, but apart from a cameo for the Junior Tahs, I haven't seen him in action. Nor have I heard anything about the 2 years remaining on his supposed deal.

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[AussieDominance]

I will check with him. Would assume amateur though. Yet to hear which club, probably Wests due to his schoolmates.

 

[rugby_man]

In what capacity? Pro or amateur?

For folks who don't know him: Seage is one of those lads who play both codes of the game. Earlier this year he was starting halfback for the Parramatta SG Ball (U/18.) league team, runners-up to the Roosters in the final. He also plays rugby union for the Hills Sports High School, an emerging rugby union schools power, albeit with a few future Toyota Cup (U/20) league players in their 1st XV.

In rugby union he was the fullback for the CHS rep team and wing for NSW II Schools. He missed out on selection in the two Oz Schools teams; so he doesn't sound like he's much, but he's a terrific ball runner and is obviously a versatile player.

Even if he's in the amateur group it's significant because he's willing to take a risk in rugby union. If things don't work out for him he still has time to go back to league and get into a Toyota Cup squad in 2012, but he would have lost his SG Ball brownie points by then.

If observer reads this he could give folks a better assessment of Seage than I could.


Not to the point but has anybody seen 2009 Oz Schools fullback Jake Woodhouse play this year? He is in the 2010 Tahs pro academy and reportedly had a 3 year Tahs deal, but apart from a cameo for the Junior Tahs, I haven't seen him in action. Nor have I heard anything about the 2 years remaining on his supposed deal.

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Everything you've said about Seage is just about right. As you mentioned Lee, he is a terrific runner of the football and has plenty of pace to go with it. Being in the Junior Waratahs set-up could certainly help improve his knowledge of the game. With a bit of space, he could destroy sides.

On Woodhouse, he is currently playing 13 in 2nd grade for Easts and makes the odd cameo in 1st grade. Saw him play a few weeks ago, scored a neat try against Penrith in 2nd grade.

 

[#1 Tah]

Anyone know when the draw is announced for next year?

 

[HodgoBerro]

Anyone know when the draw is announced for next year?

Good question. Last year it was September 7

 

[observer]

In what capacity? Pro or amateur?

In rugby union he was the fullback for the CHS rep team and wing for NSW II Schools. He missed out on selection in the two Oz Schools teams; so he doesn't sound like he's much, but he's a terrific ball runner and is obviously a versatile player.
If observer reads this he could give folks a better assessment of Seage than I could.
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Berries reports on the Waratah Shield thread that Seage has signed a Sevens contract. His facebook said as much and that he had signed with the ARU. As the ARU fund the various Super 15 academies I'd say he has been allocated to NSW.

A bit tough to say he must not be much good because he missed out on Oz Schools selection. It was widely reported in the Oz schools thread that he got injured at the national C'ships in the first 10 minutes of the first game and didn't play any further part in the tournament. This is the same game that Cameron Clarke got injured and he played no further part in the tournament.

Seage played in two schoolboy sevens events earlier in the year. One being the national schoolboy sevens at Riverview and the other being the Scots Sevens. He was the standout player in both. I understand that Michael O'Connor was watching at Riverview and that's where it all started. In the game against the NTS squad at Scots he scored 4 trys.

This boy is built for speed (He has been timed at 11 flat at Hills Sports) and is suited to the game. He is definitely a good signing for the Sevens. We will see how he develops in the 15's game but with Scott Bowen's assistance at the Tahs Academy I can only see positive things coming out of this arrangement. While Seage has a league background with the Parramatta Eels he has played a bit of rugby at Barker College when he was there. Aussie Dominance might be able to give us some more information about his previous rugby background.

Don't be surprised to see him come into the Oz Schools if there are injuries.

As for clubs I'm hearing it will be either Wests or Eastwood. Or do the ARU allocate the club?