Wallaby Watch 2014

[Viking]

I guess the problem with To'omua is he is currently the best 10 and 12 options we have. Clone him?

An interesting thought. I actually think if he was a Kiwi he'd probably start at 10 this year for the All Blacks, but I don't see him starting at 12. 10. To'omua 12. Nonu is a scarey thought.

But the "Australian way" of playing means he fits nicely in at 12, and if Cooper is at flyhalf he balances the team out nicely.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm disappointed that Godwin is injured, because I would've loved to have seen Link back him at 12 with To'omua at 10...........

 

[Braveheart81]

I would play To'omua at 10. To me his super rugby form in that position has been much better this year than last and whilst he did play well at 12 last year and that Mackenzie wants to continue that development but he has been a 10 for a very long period of time. This year he has been quite clearly the best 10 in Australia on form and that is something I would not have said in previous years.

I would have agreed with this a month or so ago but lately To'omua and the Brumbies form has dropped off while the Waratahs have been in excellent form, particularly Foley and Beale who To'omua is competing with.

Unless Link is looking to emulate the Brumbies game plan (which I really don't think is the case), To'omua's form at 10 doesn't really make him a standout choice for that position for the Wallabies.

If Cooper was healthy I think there'd be even less debate.

 

[Braveheart81]

I guess the problem with To'omua is he is currently the best 10 and 12 options we have. Clone him?

An interesting thought. I actually think if he was a Kiwi he'd probably start at 10 this year for the All Blacks, but I don't see him starting at 12. 10. To'omua 12. Nonu is a scarey thought.

But the "Australian way" of playing means he fits nicely in at 12, and if Cooper is at flyhalf he balances the team out nicely.

If To'omua was a New Zealander, I think they'd still be picking Beaudan Barrett or Aaron Cruden at 10 for the England series.

 

[Richo]

Yep, if Cooper was healthy it'd be 10. Cooper 12. To'omua and Beale/Foley on the bench. No question.

 

[Viking]

If To'omua was a New Zealander, I think they'd still be picking Beaudan Barrett or Aaron Cruden at 10 for the England series.

Thought Cruden was injured. I would put a fit Cruden ahead of To'omua too. But you would have to say To'omua would be in contention for 10, fighting it out with Barrett (who is also very good) but I doubt he would even be considered an option at 12 if he were a kiwi.

 

[Braveheart81]

Thought Cruden was injured. I would put a fit Cruden ahead of To'omua too. But you would have to say To'omua would be in contention for 10, fighting it out with Barrett (who is also very good) but I doubt he would even be considered an option at 12 if he were a kiwi.

Cruden came back last week onto the bench. He is starting this week. That is why I think Barrett will be the starting 10 in the June tests.

I don't see why the All Blacks wouldn't consider a player like To'omua as an option at 12 instead of 10. It was shown last year that he has excellent attributes for a 12.

The oft held view that the All Blacks never select players 'out of position' isn't really supported by reality. Their outside backs in particular move around a fair bit.

 

[Mortal Wombat]

If Alexander had been transitioned to THP earlier in his career he probably wouldn't have got nearly as much Super Rugby experience.

This is assuming that the tight heads playing for the Brumbies at the time were better players than Alexander, which begs the question, why weren't they selected for the Wallabies?

Our rugby culture just doesn't respect scrummaging. We'd rather pick a bloke with a high work rate than one who can deliver a stable scrum on our feed, particularly in super rugby.

The recent law changes will make that impossible to get away with at test level, IMO.

 

[Braveheart81]

This is assuming that the tight heads playing for the Brumbies at the time were better players than Alexander, which begs the question, why weren't they selected for the Wallabies?

I'm pretty sure Guy Shepherdson was the starting THP for the Brumbies then.

Nic Henderson was the loose head and Salesi Ma'afu was also in the squad.

It's a difficult one because it's hard to balance the development of a player who is likely to be better once they reach their peak against the needs of your side currently.

Of course Alexander is a bit of an exception. He started a test for the Wallabies before he started a Super Rugby game for the Brumbies.

 

[Viking]

Cruden came back last week onto the bench. He is starting this week. That is why I think Barrett will be the starting 10 in the June tests.

I don't see why the All Blacks wouldn't consider a player like To'omua as an option at 12 instead of 10. It was shown last year that he has excellent attributes for a 12.

The oft held view that the All Blacks never select players 'out of position' isn't really supported by reality. Their outside backs in particular move around a fair bit.

Ok. Good point, I guess i jumped the gun in saying he wouldn't be an option.

BUT the difference is we consider To'omua at 12 as the first option even though he has played nearly his entire career at 10. Whereas the Kiwi's would probably look at To'omua as a 10 firstly and a 12 second.

I support To'omua at 12, but mainly with his combination with Cooper at 10. With Cooper out I'm now convinced he should be our first choice 10.

 

[Braveheart81]

Ok. Good point, I guess i jumped the gun in saying he wouldn't be an option.

BUT the difference is we consider To'omua at 12 as the first option even though he has played nearly his entire career at 10. Whereas the Kiwi's would probably look at To'omua as a 10 firstly and a 12 second.

I support To'omua at 12, but mainly with his combination with Cooper at 10. With Cooper out I'm now convinced he should be our first choice 10.

I guess the difference is that playing To'omua at 10 and bringing in another 12 is likely to result in a very different game plan to what we had at the end of 2013.

It might be a different story if Leali'ifano was a good option but he just isn't in form.

So the question comes down to whether the Wallabies bring in Beale or Foley to replace Cooper or move To'omua to 10, bring in a new 12 and play with a somewhat different style.

It seems overwhelmingly likely that Link is going to stick with To'omua at 12.

 

[Athilnaur]

To'omua will be 12, it is clear McKenzie wants to continue with the two playmaker model. It is a style of rugby that hopefully fosters a running game, and we have a few candidates that would fit in at 12. Even JOC (James O'Connor) and Giteau. Only two selectable and in form though - Beale and To'omua.

To'omua is the logical pick for that 12 role, but I do have misgivings at playing Beale at 10. Presumably the hope is we will see Beale looping back in for second touches.

Done well we will see some great rugby. Done poorly I fear it will result in headless chook syndrome. I have unpleasant visions of ABs, Boks, even a rush defense Le Grenouille, rendering Beale and Genia into said chooks.

Not that I am advocating JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 btw. Gits I could actually see.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Why I think To'omua is so great, and a better option than any of those mentioned (let's throw in Barnes as well), is that he offer both the defence and straight, crash ball of any more limited option, yet is still close to our best 10 option.

For all the strengths of any other options, that lack the all-round game that To'omua has.

 

[Richo]

Our rugby culture just doesn't respect scrummaging. We'd rather pick a bloke with a high work rate than one who can deliver a stable scrum on our feed, particularly in super rugby.

The recent law changes will make that impossible to get away with at test level, IMO.

Yes, but by the same token the new laws seem to have made scrummaging even less important in Super Rugby (or at least not an essential element of success). Teams like the Waratahs don't use it as a weapon as such, but simply as a platform for attach. Link was ahead of the curve in this regard -- his Reds teams (old laws, of course) sought nothing more than clean ball off their own scrum.

 

[BDA]

McKenzie clearly sees Cooper as his no.1 flyhalf and To'omua as his no.1 inside centre and I agree with that combo.

It's likely that as soon as Cooper returns, Link will return to that same 10-12 combo. Cooper's injury provides a great opportunity to find out who our best alternative 10 is for the world cup. It makes sense that link's first option is to leave To'omua at 12 and try someone else at 10.

I'm fine with Foley (even Beale but to a lesser extent) getting a chance to prove his wear in that position. If neither Foley nor Beale show that they have the right stuff to play 10 for the wobs, I expect we will see To'omua move to 10 for the rugby championship.

If you watched Link on the rugby club a few weeks ago you'd know that Link made it clear (when addressing the backline positioning of players, in particular To'omua at 12) that there is every chance that players will end up playing in different positions but that is where he currently sees them. I have no doubt that'll Link will move To'omua to 10 if Beale and Foley fail there over the next few months. But at the moment it appears he is planning towards the world cup and clearly has something like this in mind:

Our world cup 10s
1. Cooper
2. Foley or Beale

Our world cup 12s
1. To'omua
2. Godwin or Lilo (I put godwin in because Link has made it known that he wants to select Godwin as soon as he is eligible).

At the end of the day whether To'omua has a 10 or 12 on his back probably doesn't make a big difference because the wallabies style of play will rely on dual playmakers. To'omua will slot in at flyhalf during games, and the likes of Beale (if selected) will shift to inside centre for certain plays.

 

[suckerforred]

Our world cup 12s
1. To'omua
2. Godwin or Lilo (I put godwin in because Link has made it known that he wants to select Godwin as soon as he is eligible uninjured).

Fixed

 

[BDA]

ha thanks. that's the word I was looking for

 

[USARugger]

For all the strengths of any other options, that lack the all-round game that To'omua has.

This. Exactly this.

In any system where the 12 has duties that go beyond "run the ball" the skill set required is one if the broadest of any position on the field and at times can even be seemingly contradictory.

To be honest "do it all" 12s are fucking rare and are nuggets of gold when you can find them.

Nonu is such a great example of this. He is an enormous man with pace and a step that hits like a demon (albeit with questionable legality) but also has a long passing and short/long kicking game that puts some starting Super Rugby 10s to absolute shame.

Having that kind of flexibility in your second-five is just invaluable. You essentially create a second axis when you run a 12 that can produce multiple looks in just a few touches.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

So looks like there are a few options for 10/12. I think in order of most likely they are as follows:

1. Beale/To'omua
2. Foley/To'omua
3. To'omua/Beale
4. To'omua/Foley
5. To'omua/McCabe
6. Foley/Beale
7. To'omua/Lilo or vice versa

Any others? I think the general consensus is that Lilo will not be in the 23

 

[No4918]

So looks like there are a few options for 10/12. I think in order of most likely they are as follows:

1. Beale/To'omua
2. Foley/To'omua
3. To'omua/Beale
4. To'omua/Foley
5. To'omua/McCabe
6. Foley/Beale
7. To'omua/Lilo or vice versa

Any others? I think the general consensus is that Lilo will not be in the 23

Option 7 is a winner.

10. Lilo
12. To'omua

You know it makes sense.