Wallaby Watch 2014

[Pete King]

Running a lineout is a skill.
I really don't mean to sound disingenuous but I would like to know if those arguing against picking a lineout specialist have ever played in the forwards or better yet, tried to call a lineout?
It's a really big deal and one that should never be overlooked.


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Is Scoey an alias for Victor Matfield ???

never disputed it was a skill but merely asked does anyone know if its a skill that some of this guys in contention don't possess?? ie Jones, carter etc.

its growing old anyway but couldnt help myself when saw Scoey having a crack about a rugby forums posters qualifications to comment.... out of interest I played in forwards and with some pretty handy guys at club level who called our lineout well but when they went to higher levels were never required to because the incumbent was meeting the other 2/3 of locks duties.

 

[Scoey]

Is Scoey an alias for Victor Matfield ???

never disputed it was a skill but merely asked does anyone know if its a skill that some of this guys in contention don't possess?? ie Jones, carter etc.

its growing old anyway but couldnt help myself when saw Scoey having a crack about a rugby forums posters qualifications to comment.. out of interest I played in forwards and with some pretty handy guys at club level who called our lineout well but when they went to higher levels were never required to because the incumbent was meeting the other 2/3 of locks duties.

I wasn't having a crack mate. I mate those comments with all due respect to you and others that have said similar things as I genuinely wondered. But then again, I am a Rugby forum poster and I certainly don't feel that being such qualifies me to comment with any authority about a lot of what the backs get up to, let alone in the key positions as I simply do not know enough about the topic.

Anyway, as you suggest, the topic is getting a tad old. Oh, and no, I'm not Victor Matfield.

 

[Pete King]

all good. be pretty boring if everyone agreed

 

[Ruggo]

I think Jones and Skelton are the two most likely uncapped locks to be selected this year.

Jones edges Carter and Skelton provides something completely different.

The more I see of him and they way the Force are getting results, I would rate Coleman to be a huge chance at being the bolter.

 

[Ruggo]

White should get the Wallaby jersey but we better have a pack that is physically up to it. The Brumbies pack very rarely gets owned and White gets good service but when the Rebels owned the Brumbies pack, White was dreadful. Well out of his comfort zone and he didn't respond well.

Genia does not deserve to start. He is playing like a player that knows he has a mortgage on his spot and needs somebody to cut him back to size because Richard Graham hasn't shown the balls to do it. With a kick up the arse and a benching, he certainly is a chance of breaking a game wide open at the back end. I think he would respond to that and all Wallaby fans want him back at his best.

 

[Dumbledore]

Running a lineout is a skill. It's something that is learned of course and it's something that players get better with over time if they feel that it is a skill they want to put the time into and develop. They don't learn it simply by spending time playing in the forwards.
I don't think it's beyond the capabilities of Jones or a lot of other players to learn but conversely it's not something that they will be able to pick up in a Wallaby training camp and I would even suggest it will take them a season or two to become even an average runner of a lineout.

Agree with this completely. What I don't buy into is the argument that the lineout is this holistic, mystical, part of the game that only a chosen few can run. What it's closest to IMO, is an NFL position. You study tape, work out what opposing like to do in certain situations, and then apply that knowledge. Seems to me that the best lineout callers are those that can most quickly break down what the opposition is trying to do - both on their own ball and on the oppositions. It's not 'instinct', it's a deep conceptual knowledge of the entire set piece. Noting what specific moves a team is running, then applying existing knowledge to extrapolate what future moves will be called.

It's difficult, sure. But I seriously think every lock, 6, and 8 in camp should be drilled on this stuff every single day. Might take six months to a year, maybe even longer, and some people will likely be better at it than others, but I can't see a reason why lineout forwards shouldn't have a working knowledge of how to call it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Well why aren't all teams line outs equal? Some players are good at it, some aren't. If you are losing one a game on your throw rather than keeping it all and winning one of theirs, that's a huge difference.

 

[Scoey]

The deciding factor is the time it takes to learn. Some players do have a knack to spotting the other teams patterns etc and it's those guys that I assume teams put the extra effort into to making a lineout specialist.
Probably much like developing a goal kicker. Some may have some natural ability but in an ideal world all of the players would put in an extra hour after each training and eventually you'd have a team of 75% plus goal kickers and a few 85-90% plus kickers.


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[Ruggo]

It's all ok to do the analysis and be able to think on your feet but it has to be done with accuracy and detail under pressure. It takes a lot of experience in a match situation to get the knack of it. While this is going on, your opposition is adapting their own lineout and working on picking yours off.

Anyone can learn it and some will pick it up quicker than others but it takes real game time to develop.

 

[Ruggo]

So Tomane don't look good for the French tests. I thought he would of taken one of the wing spots. I prefer AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the bench as outside back cover so would love to see McCabe take that wing spot. He is in blistering form.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm curious about who the Brumbies' backup caller is as obviously they need to take over next year when Mowen is gone.........

It's gotta come down to either Fardy and Carter, and from what I've seen Fardy seems to do a lot of shouting at line out time and is a pretty good defensive jumper (and the Brumbies' usual #2 go to man after Mowen)............

It might help create some options if Fardy is indeed skilled in that position, but regardless we need someone competent in the job because I still remember how bad our line out was in 2009 and how it destroyed so many attacking opportunities for the Wobs, and obviously put so much pressure on us in our own 22m.........

You simply need to have a skilled line out commander at test level or you're fucked........... simple as that.

 

[Dumbledore]

It's all ok to do the analysis and be able to think on your feet but it has to be done with accuracy and detail under pressure. It takes a lot of experience in a match situation to get the knack of it. While this is going on, your opposition is adapting their own lineout and working on picking yours off.

Anyone can learn it and some will pick it up quicker than others but it takes real game time to develop.

Totally. That's my argument though, that's it's a learned skill - not an innate one. And if it's a learned skill, then it can be taught. The Wallabies coaching set up to to identify the 5 or 6 locks they're looking at for the WC, and then they need to start working with the coaches of those players on their lineout abilities now. Let's get Jones calling the lineout for the Rebels, see what he can do there. We've got the NRC coming up too, if Coleman and Skelton (for example) don't make the Wallaby squad this year then get them calling for their NRC teams. It's a problem if Simmons is considered the only good lineout operator in the country, what happens if he's injured or suspended or his form really crashes? We've got a year to work on this stuff, no reason for it not to happen.

 

[Pete King]

So Tomane don't look good for the French tests. I thought he would of taken one of the wing spots. I prefer AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the bench as outside back cover so would love to see McCabe take that wing spot. He is in blistering form.

And AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) hasnt been in bllistering form??? I would say To'omua, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Folau are the only back certainties to run on.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Well why aren't all teams line outs equal? Some players are good at it, some aren't. If you are losing one a game on your throw rather than keeping it all and winning one of theirs, that's a huge difference.

By that measure all teams back attacks should be equal: its the human condition that nothing is entirely repeatable, and that no 2 people have precisely the same strengths and weaknesses

 

[Dave Beat]

The more I see of him and they way the Force are getting results, I would rate Coleman to be a huge chance at being the bolter.

Well I agree + jones Skelton Neville and Simmons - a changing of the guard.
But I'd include carter as well because I like Jones at 6.

 

[Highlander35]

5 games of Super Rugby, plus 8 NRC games.

That's at least a bit of time to train a couple of boys to call line outs.

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[BDA]

I would be gobsmacked if Link isn't already considering who his line-out callers will be heading into the world cup. I'm not sure who he is considering as back-up caller but he definitely has one in mind. I suspect that it was to be Mowen, but I also get the feeling that Mowen's departure suggest Link didn't have big plans for Mowen .

I still think Higgers is probably our best replacement for mowen. his lineout work is underrated. Despite his indifferent form for the Rebels over the last few rounds, he has the potential to be great at test level. He is one of the few players that the Kiwis and Boks rate in terms of physicality, he just needs to find the type of form that he was in last year before injury.

 

[Viking]

I still think Higgers is probably our best replacement for mowen. his lineout work is underrated. Despite his indifferent form for the Rebels over the last few rounds, he has the potential to be great at test level. He is one of the few players that the Kiwis and Boks rate in terms of physicality, he just needs to find the type of form that he was in last year before injury.

I agree with this. Higgers has the most potential out of the lot of them. We saw a glimpse of this last year in his super xv season before he got injured. Its disappointing his form isn't great at the moment and I wouldn't be putting him striaght into the starting team but I would like to see him on the bench.

 

[lewisr]

So Tomane don't look good for the French tests. I thought he would of taken one of the wing spots. I prefer AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the bench as outside back cover so would love to see McCabe take that wing spot. He is in blistering form.

I like McCabe on the wing, he fills a Digby role where he'll always make it over the gain line no matter what, and we've been missing that recently. However, how fast is he? Does he have the pace to compete at international level on the wing? Still think he is a great bench player that now offers far more versatility than he did back on 2011.

 

[Scoey]

Yeah he's plenty quick enough. He doesn't have a pair of those jet shoes the commentators are always talking about but his are close. His acceleration is certainly quick enough though!


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