Wallaby Watch 2014

[Forcefield]

I think Horwill and Simmons should start the first test. With the clear message to find form or get dropped. Jones on the bench and Fardy starting at 6. Hooper at 7. Palu at 8 and either McCalman or Hodgson on the bench.

Make decisions from there.

 

[Dave Beat]

I think Horwill and Simmons should start the first test. With the clear message to find form or get dropped. Jones on the bench and Fardy starting at 6. Hooper at 7. Palu at 8 and either McCalman or Hodgson on the bench.

Make decisions from there.

Horwill no way, he was struggling to get his name on paper on last years EOYT. What has he done to be included?

Just had a quick look at EOYT comments - such as Horwill on pine for rest of tour. He hasn't stood up yet so maybe he needs to stay sitting.

Jones has selected himself in my eyes.

 

[It is what it is]

I think Horwill and Simmons should start the first test. With the clear message to find form or get dropped. Jones on the bench and Fardy starting at 6. Hooper at 7. Palu at 8 and either McCalman or Hodgson on the bench.

Make decisions from there.

Forcefield, not sure if you do any coaching but your proposed message to Horwill and Simmons is probably not the way to go. Imagine playing your first test in a new season and running out with that message ringing in your ears. That aside I like your pack with Horwill out and Jones in.

 

[Pfitzy]

They're professional athletes - they know the score. This isn't mollycoddling the First Grade Subbies team who could just up and leave for your cross town rivals

 

[Forcefield]

Forcefield, not sure if you do any coaching but your proposed message to Horwill and Simmons is probably not the way to go. Imagine playing your first test in a new season and running out with that message ringing in your ears. That aside I like your pack with Horwill out and Jones in.

And what does your message say? You just simply aren't good enough? That is not true of either of them. I have seen both of them play excellent rugby.

I think the message from my suggestion is pretty clear: You guys have the potential but you have to deliver. Better to give them the chance and leave it up to them what they make of it than bring in an untried and untested player and simply replace them.

 

[Slim 293]

And what does your message say? You just simply aren't good enough? That is not true of either of them. I have seen both of them play excellent rugby.

I think the message from my suggestion is pretty clear: You guys have the potential but you have to deliver. Better to give them the chance and leave it up to them what they make of it than bring in an untried and untested player and simply replace them.

Simmons, despite his average Super Rugby form deserves his chance based on his most recent test form and attributes he can offer the team.........

Horwill was going to be dropped from the team last year and since then has continued to play poorly...........

I think it's perfectly fair that the message delivered to him is that he isn't good enough right now, and he needs to improve before he is considered for a gold jersey.........

 

[RugbyReg]

If you want to send Simmons and Horwill a message then pick Jones and Carter (or the like) at lock for the French series. Rob and Kev then have the rest of the Super season to prove themselves.

 

[Dave Beat]

If you want to send Simmons and Horwill a message then pick Jones and Carter (or the like) at lock for the French series. Rob and Kev then have the rest of the Super season to prove themselves.

Simmons was polling well in GAGR votes for the EOYT, and in a beaten team he hasn't been playing badly. Hence Jones and Simmons being my pick.

 

[Scoey]

For fuck sake surely at the highest level of the game blokes can stand up and run the line out. .........

Is this really a specialty????

Put simply, yes. Every day of the week yes. 'Calling a line out' is so much more than yelling out so the hooker and the jumpers know what they're doing. Knowing when to throw to the front, middle or back. Knowing when your oppo is picking your calls and being able to adjust or better yet, throw them off. Knowing how to pressure an oppo's lineout effectively. There's so much strategy to it.
The lineout is also such a key part of the game. There is an old saying "win the lineout and win the game". A dominant lineout will give your team field position all day.
I get that a lot of players and spectators alike probably don't get the significance of the lineout but saying that they're elite players so surely one of them can run the lineout is akin to saying, surely they're all wallaby backs so one of them could play fly half.
It's an exaggeration of course but I think I've made my point.

 

[Dumbledore]

I've seen that comparison before, but I don't think it's quite right. A lineout is a set piece, there's time to systematically analyse it both pre-game and during the game itself. It's like calling a set move off a stoppage, or calling out assignments on defence when facing a set move. It's one of those things where over time I can believe that a player will develop an 'instinct' for it, but I reckon that's mainly down to hours of dedicated study and training.

So while yes, Simmons is currently the best lineout operator in Australia, there's no reason why Jones or Carter or Coleman or Fardy or, well, anyone couldn't be groomed to take over that role. It might take them a season or two to get up to the level he's currently at - but it shouldn't preclude them from selection. If our lineout is as dependent on Simmons as it's being made out to be, that's a pretty worrying sign IMO.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Saying you can teach anybody to run the line out is like saying you can teach anybody to prop, or play fly half. You can teach the principles but some people have the better natural ability and instincts for it and adapt better. That's the difference between somebody who is good at it, and somebody who is just doing it.

 

[Brumby Runner]

agree with the fundamental principle you are getting across but would it not be the case that some guys could quite easily fill the role and do the job well even though they are not the lineout general at their franchise??? I would think that sometimes the reason that they are not running the lineout could be due to incumbency at their clubs (retaining the lineout general who has been there before)

And don't forget, or underestimate, that there are 3 mid year tests this year, 6 RC tests and a Bledisloe and the EOYT to bring a new caller up to speed. The end result would be a stronger unit both in the open and at lineout time than persisting with Rob Simmons in his current form.

 

[Brumby Runner]

A couple of years ago, this forum was full of angry posts about the number on out of form Tahs in the Wallabies. I can see a similar situation now arising in relation to the out of form Reds players should they continue to be picked on last year's form. I just don't think Link will do that.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Not really the same Brumby Runner.

Firstly you cannot compare Sitaleki Timani, Rob Horne and a number of others who had basically never earned their start, yet still got selected despite not showing form. Oddly last year when he showed his best form, Horne missed out.

There's 5 potential Reds that could player. I think 4 should. Wasn't there up to 8 Waratahs starting at a point? (Could be wrong - Robinson, TPN, Timani, Dennis, Palu, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell, Beale)

Slipper (34 Caps) - Well there's only one other loosehead in Sio pushing claims. Slipper is considerably more experienced and Sio struggled at Wallaby level last year.

Simmons (37 Caps) - Only rivalled as a line out operator, jumping option and defensive jumper by Ben Mowen who very likely will not be selected, and other than line out form will struggle to push a claim over others. As an 8 options his lack of running game will go against him. Simmons was one of the best performers the last time the Wallabies had a run of fixtures, hasn't been disappointing this year, though his team has with his key strength remaining.

Horwill (35 Caps) - Considered previously one of the best locks in the world. A couple of years of injury have certainly blunted him at the moment. People like to bag his form but quickly forget only 2 games ago people were saying he was back to his best. Has shown the ability to be better than all other contenders. Perhaps Link thinks he can get that our of him. In addition, the only genuine quality line out option but still a tighthead lock at test level. Carter is doing it for the Brumbies, but is he able to have that same effectiveness at test level?

Genia (55 Caps) - Hasn't played very well since the Lions last year. Living on borrowed time unless he shows something and White is getting more and more experienced as time goes on. I think Link may pick him but I also think White is going to take his jersey unless something changes.

Cooper (50 Caps) - Has looked stupid when chasing games. Has at times had no runners outside of him for the Reds. Has made a few bad errors of his own. Was also one of our best the back end of last test season and surely Link will consider this. He has proven to have the ability to be our best 10, whilst To'omua, his main competition has also proven to be our best 12. My thought is Link will back himself to get Quade playing better, and also consider that moving To'omua to 10, regardless of who players 12, may weaken 12 and the partnership.

We're not talking about uncapped battlers who have somehow been selected on dubious form and been coaches favourites despite showing inadequacy at test level. There are experienced test players who have all been part of our best Wallaby performances in the last few years and all shown ability to be the very best in their position.

Based on the roles they player, Slipper and Simmons have minimal competition, Cooper fits the role best because his biggest opposition players even better at 12. That really leaves 2 selections that could be debated. And it's not like they've been blindly favoured. Link was happy to strip the captaincy of Horwill and bench both of them last year.

 

[Lindommer]

A lot of selectors here could be descended from WWI-vintage British generals: fighting the last battle's not the best way to prepare for the next one. Haig minced through a couple of hundred thousand men playing 19th century trench warfare before Monash, and a few other inspired colonial officers, showed the Allied brains trust a revolutionary, co-ordinated attack using artillery and those new-fangled tanky things was the way to break the stalemate on the Western Front.

So it is with rugby. Macqueen's left-field approach to playing the game in the late 90s/early 00s should be the template for Australian rugby; we rarely have the forward firepower to dominate the ABs and the Bokke, where we've succeeded in the past is using our smarts. And picking players in form who're going to play well in the next game, not the last one.

The time has come to give Jones his chance. And put some faith in White.

 

[Braveheart81]

I like it how the conversation has still come back to there being too many Waratahs in the Wallabies team (2 years ago)!

 

[barbarian]

The rage still burns inside me, Braveheart.

 

[Pete King]

Saying you can teach anybody to run the line out is like saying you can teach anybody to prop, or play fly half.

thats a huge stretch and quite simply untrue

 

[suckerforred]

I think TWaS has nailed it with regards to the Reds contenders.

Only place I would probably disagree with him is the selection of Genia/White. I would seriously like to see White selected as the starting 9, particularly if we are going to play a terrority game plan. His kicking has been brilliant for the majority of this year and the long range accruacy he has from the tee will hopefully stop opposition teams playing silly buggers inside our attacking half.

Considering the change in selection at 9, you have to then consider the wisdom of changing the 10/12 combination. On the EOYT we were all singing the praises of having Cooper at 10 and To'omua at 12. Why change that?

With regards to the locks conbination. I understand people's arguements about about Simmons & Howill. Howill in particular has been out of form this year. But people need to watch Simmons a little more carefully. Yes even I get grumpy at some of the penalities but considering the number of rucks he is at the bottom of, mauls he is in and tackles he makes then it is not surprising. My concern with dropping both of these would be the loss of experience in the pack. Would you really want to throw a couple of newbies at Les Bleus?

As for Slipper, he is one of the very few that I think can be writen onto the team sheet in ink now.

 

[Pete King]

Saying you can teach anybody to run the line out is like saying you can teach anybody to prop, or play fly half. You can teach the principles but some people have the better natural ability and instincts for it and adapt better. That's the difference between somebody who is good at it, and somebody who is just doing it.

Understand but you cant tell me that Jones, Carter, fardy or a few of the others in contention are just "anybody" these are guys who have been in and around rep football teams in camps probably for the best part of their lives. for argument sake if you picked jones and carter in the row and fardy at 6 im sure 1 of the 3 would have some instinct and natural ability in this area that refined would work well and if they are going to be better players and contest the all blacks harder at the breakdown why the fuck wouldnt u pick em.