Wallaby Watch 2014
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The whole argument a couple of pages back about front rowers and the use of statistics to write off the Brumbies scrum is a bit weird.
I agree that the scrum success percentage from the Brumbies is bad and they have given away too many tight heads. They have also won a lot of tight heads and scrum penalties and from the my viewing, their match against the Crusaders was the only time their scrum has been smashed.
Looking at the match against the Sharks they lost 2 of their 9 scrum feeds however I thought they were clearly the dominant scrum and their scrum was a key part of them winning the game.
Whilst you'd obviously prefer not to lose any scrums on your own feed (yet still win some on the opposition feed) there is more to scrums than just who wins each one. The quality of ball that it provides for either team and where scrum turnovers occur (particularly those resulting in kickable penalties) have a lot of impact on a game.
I agree that the scrum success percentage from the Brumbies is bad and they have given away too many tight heads. They have also won a lot of tight heads and scrum penalties and from the my viewing, their match against the Crusaders was the only time their scrum has been smashed.
Looking at the match against the Sharks they lost 2 of their 9 scrum feeds however I thought they were clearly the dominant scrum and their scrum was a key part of them winning the game.
Whilst you'd obviously prefer not to lose any scrums on your own feed (yet still win some on the opposition feed) there is more to scrums than just who wins each one. The quality of ball that it provides for either team and where scrum turnovers occur (particularly those resulting in kickable penalties) have a lot of impact on a game.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Reds didn't lose too many scrums in 2011. Certainly would not have described them as a good scrum though.
Tex
Greg Davis (50)
Ardie Savea is in the same boat for the ABs. In and around the elite setup, gleaning experience where he can without the full expectation of having to perform. Great long-term thinking.
Higginbotham has definitely been off the pace for the Rebels of late. Struggling to assert himself as captain, giving away too many penalties and not making enough impact with ball in hand.
Hopefully Palu and McCalman are the two number 8s selected.
Hopefully Palu and McCalman are the two number 8s selected.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
I'm warming to the idea. We could then play McCalman and Palu.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
It's not necessarily to do with the scrum, although a tightlead lock is usually stronger/bigger and scrummages behind the tighthead prop to provide more support. It's how they position themselves on the field and their style of play.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
All good partnerships have had players that complimented each other:
Botha/Matfield
Thorn/Whitelock
Horwill/Sharpe.
One of those players lead the line out, was their best jumper and best at stealing line outs. That player also played a little wider and wasn't as solidly built.
The other played a tighter game, was more solidly built. Was a more effective hitter. Was a line out target but wasn't as effective as stealing line outs and generally didn't run the line out.
A lot of people though, seem to have the expectations that players be both of these, as well as running like a number 8 and working like a 7.
Botha/Matfield
Thorn/Whitelock
Horwill/Sharpe.
One of those players lead the line out, was their best jumper and best at stealing line outs. That player also played a little wider and wasn't as solidly built.
The other played a tighter game, was more solidly built. Was a more effective hitter. Was a line out target but wasn't as effective as stealing line outs and generally didn't run the line out.
A lot of people though, seem to have the expectations that players be both of these, as well as running like a number 8 and working like a 7.
Benaud
Tom Lawton (22)
This is my current leaning:
Slipper
Moore
?
Jones
Simmons
Fardy
Hooper
?
White
Cooper
Cummins
To'omua
Kuridrani
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Izzy
Reckon Skelton could well be a bench smoky.
TH has been done to death. NFI.
8 is tough. Higgers was so good early in the season and has done the job before but has really gone off the boil recently. Palu has been tinkered with there a few times with mixed results and hasn't played a whole lot this year yet. McCalman has been a consistent performer for the Force - I wouldn't mind seeing him given a chance but he doesn't seem to be seriously on the radar for some reason. Mowen would be a nice option to have but he has all but ruled himself out.
I reckon those 2 spots in particular could be heavily influenced by what happens in the next few weeks.
Sidenote: I'm working on the assumption Tomane and Speight are unavailable. Otherwise, they throw a spanner in the works.
Slipper
Moore
?
Jones
Simmons
Fardy
Hooper
?
White
Cooper
Cummins
To'omua
Kuridrani
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Izzy
Reckon Skelton could well be a bench smoky.
TH has been done to death. NFI.
8 is tough. Higgers was so good early in the season and has done the job before but has really gone off the boil recently. Palu has been tinkered with there a few times with mixed results and hasn't played a whole lot this year yet. McCalman has been a consistent performer for the Force - I wouldn't mind seeing him given a chance but he doesn't seem to be seriously on the radar for some reason. Mowen would be a nice option to have but he has all but ruled himself out.
I reckon those 2 spots in particular could be heavily influenced by what happens in the next few weeks.
Sidenote: I'm working on the assumption Tomane and Speight are unavailable. Otherwise, they throw a spanner in the works.
Palu has been tinkered with a few times in the 8 jersey? He's played 49 tests.
With Higginbotham's form really not where it should be, Palu and McCalman seem like the two obvious choices for me.
Assuming Palu has three solid games leading up to the break, I expect he'll be picked.
Does anyone know if the test players are sitting out Round 16 on the 30th and 31st of May?
GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
Yeah I have been thinking about this I had a look at each team to see who calls the lineout and this is what it looks like:
Tahs: Dennis
Force: Wykes
Reds: Simmons
Rebels: Pyle
Brumbies: Mowan
Looking at that list Simmons would be the only one anywhere near a wallabies team now that Mowan and Pyle are off it's a massive issue for the wallabies I know Higgers has in the past called but even he isn't a given to start so I guess Simmons would be there on that alone........sigh
For fuck sake surely at the highest level of the game blokes can stand up and run the line out. Jones seems to have some smarts about him, sure fardy, carter , horwill as well as the afore mentioned simmons. This is the argument used for Dennis remaining in the starting side for the tahs when he has been largely ineffective.
Is this really a specialty????
Is this really a specialty????
Ignoto
Greg Davis (50)
I'm just stoking the fire, but people in the past have called for Palmer to be put into the Wallabies for his ability in the scrums, forgoing his work around the park. I'd dare say there are more lineouts than scrums in a single game, so extending the Palmer logic, are we really that dissatisfied?
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Pete King. Yes any player can call the line out. If you are happy for an average line out that's fine. If you want a dominant line out that is assumed of 99% of possession and steals opposition ball then that won't be good enough.
A good line out leader runs the line out and like a playmaker has a better ability to read the defensive line out and determine where the best place to throw is, and also where to attack opposition ball.
I know it seems crazy to pick players who are good at their core duties and don't stand out otherwise but it seems to work for the odd (all) World Cup winning teams. Our scrum already has a bad reputation, or breakdown work has been inconsistent. Do we want to risk the one area we are close to assured of regaining, and have a chance of stealing, possession?
A good line out leader runs the line out and like a playmaker has a better ability to read the defensive line out and determine where the best place to throw is, and also where to attack opposition ball.
I know it seems crazy to pick players who are good at their core duties and don't stand out otherwise but it seems to work for the odd (all) World Cup winning teams. Our scrum already has a bad reputation, or breakdown work has been inconsistent. Do we want to risk the one area we are close to assured of regaining, and have a chance of stealing, possession?
sidelinesid
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Trains on to it.
What about Jones at 8? Hits up well and is atheletic and a lineout jumper
What about Jones at 8? Hits up well and is atheletic and a lineout jumper
agree with the fundamental principle you are getting across but would it not be the case that some guys could quite easily fill the role and do the job well even though they are not the lineout general at their franchise??? I would think that sometimes the reason that they are not running the lineout could be due to incumbency at their clubs (retaining the lineout general who has been there before)
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