Wallaby Watch 2014

[cyclopath]

Skelton needs to be able to prove he can play 80 at Super level because if he's the lock cover on the bench and one of Horwill or Simmons goes down within the first minute or 10 minutes of the game, he's going to become a liability after 40-60 minutes.

If he can't consistently play 80 minutes of Super Rugby intensity, it is not going to get any easier in international rugby, where the intensity is another step up.

Not necessarily. If Fardy starts at 6, he can also play lock if needs be, if you had someone like Cottrell or McMahon (just examples) also on bench. A backup 7 is probably superfluous if Hooper plays.
Anyway, Skelton could be carried on the bench by some permutation that would not be too outlandish.
Whether that is the mix / balance McKenzie thinks we need is another debate.

 

[Dumbledore]

I'm starting the McMahon bandwagon. I'd take him over Higgers at the moment. A tackle-busting backrower with a huge motor who can put in a dominant tackle. I don't care that he's a bit undersized, he's getting shit done around the field. Get him into the squad, get him around Link and the senior players. He'll be an absolute animal over the next few years.

 

[tigerland12]

I've really come around to the idea of having McMahon in the squad.

He is awesome every time he comes on the field. Getting him involved in the set up at a young age will only reap benefits long-term.

 

[BDA]

Skelton needs to be able to prove he can play 80 at Super level because if he's the lock cover on the bench and one of Horwill or Simmons goes down within the first minute or 10 minutes of the game, he's going to become a liability after 40-60 minutes.

Fardy will be at 6. So you you can easily move Fardy to the 2nd row if need be.

 

[en_force_er]

Getting him involved in the set up at a young age will only reap benefits long-term.

You'd think so, only it's never seemed to pan out this way.

He'd be better off getting a preseason than spending months in a Wallaby squad to play a few minutes this year.

All the youngins playing test rugby either end up becoming dickheads or their bodies start giving in a few years shy of when they should be.

 

[ChargerWA]

All Quade will be feeling at the moment is a longing to get in the Wallaby setup and into the warm embrace of a decent coach.

I think he should get first crack at 10. He was excellent on the EOYT and was also very good during the 4N. Even the kiwis were saying his game had matured after the Bled games. Ewen knows how to get the best out of him and then we can use To'omua at 12. Win/win.

 

[BDA]

My 23

1.Slipper
2.Moore
3.Alexander (not convinced. only until Kepu finds some form.)
4.Horwill
5.Simmons
6.Fardy
7.Hooper (captain)
8.Palu
9.Genia
10.Cooper
11.Cummins
12.To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15.Folau

16.Sio
17.TPN
18.Kepu
19. Skelton (i'd like to see how he goes over the next 3 weeks, but he is shaping as great bnech option)
20. McCalman
21. White
22. Lilo
23. McCabe

Beale and Higgers just miss a bench spot

 

[Pfitzy]

Getting young blokes involved at a level they're not physically ready for can also end up in long-term injuries from which they never recover. Look at all the players recently who are crocked at ages 21, 22, 23 because they've been accelerated from the 20s program.

 

[tigerland12]

Luke Jones > Horwill, Simmons, Skelton

He has to be in the 23 somewhere.

 

[BDA]

Yeh I'm not sold on Horwill

 

[en_force_er]

Luke Jones > Horwill, Simmons, Skelton

He has to be in the 23 somewhere.

Let's look more like for like then that. Luke Jones is very Fardy-esc, I certainly wouldn't be seeing him as an appropriate replacement for Horwill, who will play the big lock role, not the little lock who can play 6 role.

Simmons might make the XV purely off his lineout calling, unless Mowen get's name or Higgers gets into the team.

 

[MarkJ]

I think he should get first crack at 10. He was excellent on the EOYT and was also very good during the 4N. Even the kiwis were saying his game had matured after the Bled games.

From memory Quade didn't start in the first two Bledisloe games, To'omua got chucked in at the deep end. Cooper only started in the dead rubber I think.

 

[Scotty]

Back 5 of:

Carter
Jones
Fardy
Hooper
McCalman

Imagine the work they would get through. Throw in Skelton and Palu for some impact, and it is an exciting back 5.

Bit going to happen, but it would have a chance of working.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Unlike most on this thread, I don't expect Link to go with incumbents who are out of form. I therefore expect Slipper to be the only Red in the starting 15, with both Will and Quade on the bench at best for the first test.

Much as I'd like to see Matt To'omua left at 12, I think he will be the starting 10 with either Lealiifano or McCabe at 12. Locks, on form, should be Jones and Carter, but I suspect Scott Fardy will probably play in the second row. We seem to have more cover in the back row than in the second row, so Scott probably moves there.

I would definitely have Cottrell and Skelton in the squad.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'm almost certain the locks won't be Jones AND Carter. Really good players have had trouble making the step up and I'm pretty sure he won't leave the line out up to a pair of debutants, neither of which are line out leaders at their own province.

We can get by with other options, but barring the replacement of mowen at 8, we need to keep close to the same 8 for it to thrive.

Based on the fact that Hooper will play 80 and fardy offers a lot at the breakdown id love to see Jones and Carter on the bench, using Jones as a 6/8 and Carter solely as a lock.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm almost certain the locks won't be Jones AND Carter. Really good players have had trouble making the step up and I'm pretty sure he won't leave the line out up to a pair of debutants, neither of which are line out leaders at their own province.

We can get by with other options, but barring the replacement of mowen at 8, we need to keep close to the same 8 for it to thrive.


Based on the fact that Hooper will play 80 and fardy offers a lot at the breakdown id love to see Jones and Carter on the bench, using Jones as a 6/8 and Carter solely as a lock.

I'd agree with Jones and Carter on the bench if both Douglas and Mowen were available. As you can no doubt ascertain, ATM I have little time for any Reds players outside of Slipper, and certainly not Rob Simmons in the second row, and after today I have doubts about Horwill whom I had previously had as a preferred starter. Form is more important than incumbency since Link took over, and I have no concerns about a line out comprising Fardy, Jones, Carter, Hooper and probably Palu/Higgers winning own ball and making life difficult on opposition throw.

 

[ChargerWA]

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Simmons
5. Fardy
6. Higginbotham
7. Hooper (C)
8. Palu
9. White
10. Cooper
11. Cummins
12. To'omua
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Mogg
15. Folau


16. TPN (Just, I would list Charles but I think that is my Force coloured glasses)
17. Sio
18. Kepu (Not that he deserves it on current form, Longbottom would be my pick but same as above)
19. Skelton
20. Jones
21. Genia
22. Lealiafano
23. Speight (assuming jaw is good, otherwise Morahan or Coleman)

 

[Train Without a Station]

I don't think in any time in the history of super rugby, players who have performed well consistently at Super level and at wallaby level into the most recent international games have been discarded due to a bad super season.

Why? Because international quality players don't just become shit. I think Cooper, Horwill, Simmons and Genia have been on average, average. What must be considered is, if these guys and slipper were having their best seasons ever and the other 10 were playing like shit, would the team be performing any better?

To say a handful of players are unpickable due to the form of a team as a whole, which they make up a third or less of is absurd.

The form of Horwill and Simmons in their clean out effectiveness is a real concern.

I'm leaning well away from Genia and in his second shot at the wallabies id back white to be a lot better. Genia has used up all his credit in the bank and can't be picked on looking back 18 months ago.

Cooper and To'omua looked extremely strong as a combo last year. It's easy to point to Quade's Hail Mary plays but that's jus lazy criticism as these seldom occur before a game gets out of reach and he needs to try and pull a rabbit out if a hat. I hope link rips into him about his shithouse ball security though and tells him it won't be accepted.

 

[tigerland12]

I honestly believe Cooper will be 100 times better with To'omua and better support outside him. He should be our 10 to start with, and To'omua at 12.

A while ago I mentioned about 5 Reds who I'd consider for the matchday 23. Right now only Slipper and Cooper are likely to start. No doubt Genia and the Locks will be there, but not deservingly.

 

[Benaud]

It's a balance to some degree of how much weight you give to last year's test form vs more recent Super form. There are some suggestions here and elsewhere that one is the entire focus and the other ignored entirely, which won't be the case.

The locks are an interesting case in point. No-one could pick the Reds pair on Super form. But if you ignored Super form completely, they'd be no-brainers. Simmons at least performed brilliantly in tests late last year. Horwill once upon a time was almost a world XV selection but is a few years past his best now and is extremely difficult to select based on recent test or domestic form. Then you have a guy like Jones who hasn't played for the Wallabies yet but is head and shoulders above the incumbents on domestic form to date.

My suspicion is they'll go with one of the old and one of the new in the end (assuming Fardy plays 6 not lock, otherwise we're back to the drawing board). I'm leaning towards Jones and Simmons at this stage. It depends a bit on the balance they want to strike in the set pieces too but that pair seems to fit well in most scenarios.

And I suspect that will be a similar theme in other positions too such that we don't have the absurdity of just selecting last year's side without any reference to this year's form or similarly selecting a side entirely on form this year without regard to test experience.