Wallaby Watch 2014

[Slim 293]

That's a pretty disingenuous argument though, isn't it? You wouldn't be picking Beale because he's the second best 12, you're picking him because he can cover almost every position from 10-15, can kick goals, has a great connection with Fulool, and can shred tired defences.

But there's only 1-2 of those positions you'd want him playing, and one of those positions is held by Folau.........

And his goal kicking is not entirely reliable.........

He does have the ability to tear up defences in open play - I'll give him that, but how often are we seeing that right now?

I'm also concerned about his inability to play well with others...........

On field tantrums at his teammates have become a regular part of his game, which is not a good sign considering it wasn't that long ago he punched a team mate...........

 

[Pfitzy]

Point 1: fuck JOC (James O'Connor).

Fuck him to hell.

Fuck the horse he rode out on, fuck the horse he's riding back, and fucking FUCK the horse he'll no doubt take once more when he fucks up again.

That arrogant little cock has taken a dump in Australian rugby's chest, and he can watch the Wallabies on TV after playing for the East Coast Aces every week for all I fucking care.

He'll more likely be looking in the mirror or circle-jerking Buddy Franklin.

Point 2: Beale at 12 is not going to work in Test rugby. He'll have a massive target painted on him for opposition back rowers to run through.

That is all

For now

 

[Braveheart81]

No-one can really consider McCabe an option on the wing at the highest level. In fact it may come down to one or the other as the back up 12 in the squad.

Balance is the key in the back row and I would opt for Higgers at 8 with McCalman on the bench. Clif Palu is basically just an 8 and not really good for a full 80 these days. Higgers and Hooper are dynamic and will feed off each other while Fardy brings a tighter game.
Charles has earned his spot on the bench and the reserve hooker at the Tahs may be worth a look ahead of TPN as well.
To'omua at 10 with Beale at 12 is interesting if Links decides not to start Quade. Beale in-between Toomoua and Kuridrani could be a good combo.

I think McCabe's form this year suggest he could definitely play on the wing for the Wallabies. He's been a huge threat wherever he's played for the Brumbies. He looks a fair bit quicker this year than previously as well.

Cliffy Palu is solely a number 8 so it's lucky that's the position he plays. Out of your backrow positions, number 8 is often the one that gets replaced part way through the game so I don't think that is really an issue for Palu. He can also play 80 when required. I expect he'll at least be part of the squad (although the next three weeks may have a big say on that, particularly the Rebels vs Tahs game in Melbourne where Palu and Higgers will go up against each other).

 

[Pete King]

As a little side note the fact that McCabe is a red hot chance of appearing somewhere in the 23 is great testament to his character and how fucking tough he is. He has had some of the worst injuries in rugby and has come out the other end in career best form. He was epic in the last world cup. Hats off, this is the type of guy we need as PFitzy suggests fuck JOC (James O'Connor) right off

 

[Braveheart81]

As a little side note the fact that McCabe is a red hot chance of appearing somewhere in the 23 is great testament to his character and how fucking tough he is. He has had some of the worst injuries in rugby and has come out the other end in career best form. He was epic in the last world cup. Hats off, this is the type of guy we need as PFitzy suggests fuck JOC (James O'Connor) right off

Two broken necks is clearly nowhere near as serious as a bruised throat.

Breaking your neck is barely a scatch. It's not even a flesh wound.

 

[Viking]

That's a pretty disingenuous argument though, isn't it? You wouldn't be picking Beale because he's the second best 12, you're picking him because he can cover almost every position from 10-15, can kick goals, has a great connection with Fulool, and can shred tired defences.

Lilo had half a great season at 10 two years ago, although apparently he wants to play 12, and is a fantastic goalkicker from within about 40 metres. I love the guy, but he's not been in top form and Beale gives greater versatility and game-breaking ability from the bench.

No I wouldn't be picking Beale because he is far from the second best 12. I would have To'omua, McCabe all ahead of him. Then theirs Inman, Goodwin who aren't playing badly either. For me Beale is a liability at 12 - he was easily exposed by the Brumbies.

So he's not an option at 12 at Test level. He is hardly an option at 10 either. And to say he can cover 13 and wing when he has never played there is a stretch too. IMO he can cover fullback - but why would you when you have Izzy who is is most likely play 80mins anyway and I'd rather a tired Izzy on the field in the last 10mins then an erratic Beale - so that leaves out him as an impact sub.

You have over-rated his versatility and under-rated others. Lilo has had far more game time at 10 and is a far better 10 then Beale has ever shown - same for a 12. Lilo easily covers 10 and 12. McCabe covers 12, wing and fullback - he has excelled and experienced in all positions.
Then theirs Foley who's experienced at fullback and 10, and I bet he wouldn't go bad at 12 either.

The difference is Beale in certain positions at Test level (10,12,13) would be a greater liability then an asset.

 

[qwerty51]

How can you compare McCabe to Beale, it's so pointless. It's up to the coaches to decide their style of play they want from a 12 and then pick the player that suits that role. Is Beale a better tackler and runner than McCabe? Fuck no. Is McCabe a better passer and kicker than Beale? Fuck no.

 

[Braveheart81]

The point that was made is that Beale offers more utility value than Leali'ifano, particularly as an impact reserve.

Beale has proven to be a matchwinner in test rugby with last gasp tries and also one with a long range penalty goal.

Leali'ifano has also won a test with excellent goal kicking but I find it hard to agree that Beale isn't far more suited to an impact sub role than Leali'ifano.

With several players, the answer to the question of which one is better in the starting team in a certain position isn't necessarily the same as which one is better to have on the bench.

I imagine Beale's experience and versatility will come into the decision, particularly if Link is tempted to go with a 6:2 split and play someone like Skelton. Even with a 5:3 split, I think Beale's chances of being on the bench are strong.

Depending on the structure of the bench, I'd guess that Foley and Beale would both be considered to have more versatility than Leali'ifano.

 

[Viking]

How can you compare McCabe to Beale, it's so pointless. It's up to the coaches to decide their style of play they want from a 12 and then pick the player that suits that role. Is Beale a better tackler and runner than McCabe? Fuck no. Is McCabe a better passer and kicker than Beale? Fuck no.

They are both playing 12 so theirs a lot of merit in comparing the two at this stage. Agreed both have completely different styles.
But my argument is Beale's passing and kicking and play-making which is suppose to be what sets him apart from McCabe - is over-rated as he crabs cross field, makes silly decisions etc.

So if you want a play-making 12. I'd consider To'omua, Lilo, Foley, Godwin before Beale.

A direct runner McCabe, Horne.

 

[qwerty51]

They are both playing 12 so theirs a lot of merit in comparing the two at this stage. Agreed both have completely different styles.

Not really if they're playing different games.

But my argument is Beale's passing and kicking and play-making which is suppose to be what sets him apart from McCabe - is over-rated as he crabs cross field, makes silly decisions etc.

Which is a bullshit argument once you look how many try assists Beale has to McCabe. Also kicking metres.

 

[Braveheart81]

They are both playing 12 so theirs a lot of merit in comparing the two at this stage. Agreed both have completely different styles.
But my argument is Beale's passing and kicking and play-making which is suppose to be what sets him apart from McCabe - is over-rated as he crabs cross field, makes silly decisions etc.

So if you want a play-making 12. I'd consider To'omua, Lilo, Foley, Godwin before Beale.

A direct runner McCabe, Horne.

That's not what we're talking about though.

We're talking about a bench player that can cover multiple positions and have an impact late in a match.

 

[Viking]

The point that was made is that Beale offers more utility value than Leali'ifano, particularly as an impact reserve.

Depending on the structure of the bench, I'd guess that Foley and Beale would both be considered to have more versatility than Leali'ifano.

You really wouldn't want to rely on him covering 10 and 12.

 

[Pfitzy]

If McKenzie takes on Pulver's directive of attractive rugby, Beale off the bench in the last 15-20 is a fucking must.

Keep in mind that a number on your back is just that. If I was to bring Beale on, I'd replace a winger, and play Beale and Izzy as dual sweeping fullbacks. For an opposing side, having the two of them back there with Quade in combination is a risky proposition.

So stop talking in stodge everyone and get with the program.

 

[Viking]

That's not what we're talking about though.

We're talking about a bench player that can cover multiple positions and have an impact late in a match.

I understand that.

My argument is this. Having Beale on the bench as an impact player is pointless because:
1. He has negative impact at 12. - for reasons mentioned above.
2. He has impact at 15 but Falou has better impact and I wouldn't sub him.

Having Beale on the bench for his verstilty is pointless because:
1. There are better options - Foley, McCabe.

Maybe not entirely pointless. But there are clearly better options.

 

[Pfitzy]

Foley could potentially be a better option than Beale, but will likely miss representing his country this season due to other options available.

 

[Braveheart81]

I understand that.

My argument is this. Having Beale on the bench as an impact player is pointless because:
1. He has negative impact at 12. - for reasons mentioned above.
2. He has impact at 15 but Falou has better impact and I wouldn't sub him.

Having Beale on the bench for his verstilty is pointless because:
1. There are better options - Foley, McCabe.

Maybe not entirely pointless. But there are clearly better options.

Let's agree to disagree.

Saying Beale has negative impact at 12 is massively incorrect though. Like all the players in contention his form has varied through the season and was certainly better early in the season but it has also largely mirrored the Tahs form.

Clearly he provides something different in the position to someone like McCabe or Godwin. He's far more of a playmaker and far less of a hole runner looking to work off the playmaking of others.

He's not the defender that the others in contention is and for that reason he's been shielded a bit in defence. His counter-attack is far superior and his linking with Folau has been excellent.

There are pros and cons for all the options, Beale's biggest pro is that at his best he's one of the best attacking players in Australian rugby. The people arguing for his inclusion on the bench are using that as their biggest reason.

At the end of the day, I think most national coaches are looking more at what impact their bench can provide rather than what is the best option if a player gets knocked out in the first 30 seconds of the match.

 

[tranquility]

As a little side note the fact that McCabe is a red hot chance of appearing somewhere in the 23 is great testament to his character and how fucking tough he is. He has had some of the worst injuries in rugby and has come out the other end in career best form. He was epic in the last world cup. Hats off, this is the type of guy we need as PFitzy suggests fuck JOC (James O'Connor) right off

Here, here.

Some of his performances, were as gutsy as anything I have seen on a sport pitch.

 

[BDA]

I'm still not sure about Beale as a 12.

• very good with ball in hand, perhaps even great. However if I was going to rate his effectiveness based on his Super form this season, I'd probably look first to his performances against the top teams. Canes, Brumbies, Sharks. Of those two the Brumbies and the Sharks play a style of rugby that is most comparable with test rugby. In both of those games he was found wanting. We was shut down well by good pressure from his opposition. Those were the games that the tahs probably got the least front foot ball of the season. Again that is probably the conditions a wallabies 12 will be faced with. McCabe has always flourished in those circumstances.
• If we do play Cooper we need a strong defender next to him. Beale probably is statistically a weaker defender than McCabe and Lilo.
• With Nick White in the team surely Beale's long range kicking ability isn't needed as much.
• If To'omua is your back up 10, I would have thought it would make more sense to play Lilo, given that it is an established combination.

Beale has the ex-factor true. He tends to play quite well when the game opens up a little bit in the final quarter.

I like the idea of carrying Beale on the bench but what is the plan? Is the plan to bring him on at the end of the game at 12? The idea of a Cooper-Beale 10/12 doesn't rouse much confidence in me.

I think the best tactic would be to have two 10/12 combos available for the game. an attacking option to start (Cooper/To'omua) and the ability to change to a grinding defensive option (To'omua/McCabe). You'd then, preferably have a good outside back on the bench as backup (preferably one that can kick)...cough JOC (James O'Connor) cough.

 

[Pfitzy]

In both of those games he was found wanting. We was shut down well by good pressure from his opposition. Those were the games that the tahs probably got the least front foot ball of the season. Again that is probably the conditions a wallabies 12 will be faced with. McCabe has always flourished in those circumstances.

Well that's kind of a long bow to draw.

the Tahs' game plan fell apart under the pressure and Beale wasn't solely responsible. In fact he was probably guilty of overplaying his hand, where against the Canes he picked his moments and, along with Folau, enabled space to open for others. In both games, the winning of it was with the pack.

And quite frankly if we want to beat the ABs, we can't rely on straight, hard running alone from our backs, because unless you beat the everliving shit out of their forward pack you're not going to do it anyway.

Now you're saying McCabe has always flourished in the same circumstances, and yes he's a pretty hard nut and good at going over the ad line. But that isn't much good when the first phase or second phase lost a heap of ground too.

Both players offer different things, and as Braveheart says it will depend what Link wants to do.

 

[qwerty51]

I'll just put it out there. When was the last 2 games we beat the ABs?

2011 Suncorp - Beale winning try at the end
2010 Hong Kong - JOC (James O'Connor) winning try at the end and Beale's try assist to Mitchell