Wallaby Outside Centre

[Viking]

I think Giteau has been coming into form for the brumbies, but as Gnostic alluded most of his brilliance are shown when he is a second receiver.

I think Giteau's best asset is his footwork so to get the best out of him you really have to play him at 12. Same situation with O'Connor really. Gits and O'Connor have decent skills but these should be the bare minimum for an international player. Just because JOC (James O'Connor) and Gits can pass doesn't mean they are best suited for 10. Every player in the backline should be able to pass like them. JOC (James O'Connor) does look he could be better, and probably already is, than Giteau. However Q's surely remain over his defence. Giteau's defence is topclass even if it isn't at the same standard as barne's tackling, which is superhuman.

I say give JOC (James O'Connor) a chance for the first couple of trinations, but if there is a suggestion that he could be flaky in defence then go with Giteau for the RWC. Whilst JOC (James O'Connor) might cause Sonny bill a couple of problems, I'm more concerned about the problems SBW will cause JOC (James O'Connor) on attack.

JOC (James O'Connor) is great at defense, Take a look at last years tri-nations. He was tackling props front on and he even dumped victor matfield (think it was the 2nd Bok game). That is no easy task. Gits is a great defender but I dont think his effectivness at tackling is any better then JOC (James O'Connor). JOC (James O'Connor)'s front on defense is pretty damn good for a small bloke. IMHO they both rank about the same in defense, Gits maybe slightly better at reading play.

If your worried about defending SBW then Gits is hardly going to do a better job at it. They both will probably do poorly as they BOTH are boot lace tacklers. If ur using the "dont put JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 cos of his defense" excuse, then you have no other choice but Barnes who is a very good defender.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think your final paragraph is what will happen Lee.

It is unfortunate, but for that flaw he could be ranked as good as Larkham, Ella and Noddy in years to come.

On attack, absolutely. The other blokes, as you alluded to, were much better defenders.

 

[The Mayor of Perth]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) gets first crack at outside centre. He's earned that right I believe.

Diminishing by the week though TBH. Whilst he had 12 on his back, against the Force Stirlo played like we'd want our Wallabies 13 to play. And his form has been building the last few weeks. I don't think one can split Stirlo/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Diggers at the mo.

 

[TOCC]

JOC (James O'Connor) is great at defense, Take a look at last years tri-nations. He was tackling props front on and he even dumped victor matfield (think it was the 2nd Bok game). That is no easy task. Gits is a great defender but I dont think his effectivness at tackling is any better then JOC (James O'Connor). JOC (James O'Connor)'s front on defense is pretty damn good for a small bloke. IMHO they both rank about the same in defense, Gits maybe slightly better at reading play.

If your worried about defending SBW then Gits is hardly going to do a better job at it. They both will probably do poorly as they BOTH are boot lace tacklers. If ur using the "dont put JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 cos of his defense" excuse, then you have no other choice but Barnes who is a very good defender.

to be fair though, tackling props and locks isnt really indicative of how a player can defend in the backline... 9 times out of 10 a lock or a prop is running in limited space and isnt going to try anything fancy, alternatively defending in a backline at 13 against a player with space who can use a step, fend, jink, wrap around or tongan sidestep is a different ballgame.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Diminishing by the week though TBH. Whilst he had 12 on his back, against the Force Stirlo played like we'd want our Wallabies 13 to play. And his form has been building the last few weeks. I don't think one can split Stirlo/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Diggers at the mo.

His current form has made it hard to pick him as a walk up start, but I just don't think the other contenders (with the possible exception of Morts) warrant selection. I'd love to see Morty go around one more time, but I worry about him being shown up for pace at international level and the fact that the injuries have been more frequent in recent years. My heart says yes, the head says no (or at least has some doubts).

 

[darkhorse]

JOC (James O'Connor) is great at defense, Take a look at last years tri-nations. He was tackling props front on and he even dumped victor matfield (think it was the 2nd Bok game). That is no easy task. Gits is a great defender but I dont think his effectivness at tackling is any better then JOC (James O'Connor). JOC (James O'Connor)'s front on defense is pretty damn good for a small bloke. IMHO they both rank about the same in defense, Gits maybe slightly better at reading play.

If your worried about defending SBW then Gits is hardly going to do a better job at it. They both will probably do poorly as they BOTH are boot lace tacklers. If ur using the "dont put JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 cos of his defense" excuse, then you have no other choice but Barnes who is a very good defender.

I don't have huge doubts about he's defence. I think he could do the job quite well given the chance. I don't think he has really been tested yet though and giteau is a proven, yet surprisingly underrated, defender. I think give JOC (James O'Connor) the first chance come trinations against the blacks, if not go with giteau.

If you look at Gits defensive stats they're very good. Barnes is textbook, but I don't think Giteau is far off. Out of the starting backline that everyone seems to want the only player that is possibly better than Giteau in defence is Genia, maybe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). (genia, coops, schmoo, JOC (James O'Connor), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), ioane, beale).

 

[Jethro Tah]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) always steps up for the big games and will do again for the 3N and WC. Even if he continued being hid out on the wing for the Brumbies for the remainder of the season IMO he should still get the 13 jersey because of his Wallabies track record. Most would automatically pick Pocock and Elsom in the Wallabies because of their track records yet they haven't shown any form whatsoever so far in 2011 so why not automatically pick AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on that same basis.

 

[Gnostic]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is Mr consistancy. I watch the Mule's games and see that those inside AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) continually crowd into his channel making any unders run difficult so he has to try and power over the opposing OC and deal with the drift defence the crabbing of those inside have caused. On top of that, regardless of the mindless gushing that has been going on recently the Mule wingers provide little for the opposition to worry about so often the winger steps in on him as well especially when the crabs have pushed him within 10 of the sideline.

So IMO AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will regain his mojo (which has never been lost, just buried by those inside) when he plays as part of a decent backline. Seeing him get run down by Fruen has convinced me that he shouldn't be on the wing or at 15 again. He just doesn't have the outright pace over anything greater than 20 metres.

However I still prefer Horne at 13 if he is fit and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can be the utility reserve allowing a 5:2 bench.

 

[Viking]

Who should be the wallaby 13?

There has been a lot of talk about who is going to replace the injured Mitchell on the wing, and just as much talk about JOC (James O'Connor) playing 12 for the wallabies but i am more concerned about who is going to be our outside centre. Especially with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in such bad form, and lacking game time at 13.

The contenders are AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horne, Mortlock, Ioane, and maybe even A.Fainga. To a lower extent theres probably also Turner, Chambers, Gerrard, Inman.

 

[Slim 293]

I don't believe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was in such bad form before he was shifted from outside centre this year...

In my view he was being made to look bad by his inside backs and got a lot of bad ball... but whenever he had the ball he gained metres and pulled in defenders...

Since being shfited around and demoted to the bench he's been in bad form...

I still think that once he's back in the Wallaby setup, playing at 13 and complimented by good players around him he'll be fine...

For me, him and Horne are still the frontrunners... and there are no other serious options, but rather players who can cover the position as backup...

Pat McCabe looks like he'll get a chance at 13 for the Brumbies so that will be interesting... but I still see him as a Wallaby squad member who can cover various positions...

 

[Bowside]

Didn't we already have this thread?

 

[Slim 293]

Probably...

 

[disco]

I'm Happy with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Digby. Never judge AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) by his super rugby form as it seems the worse he plays for the Brumbies the better he plays for the Wallabies so he's in for a cracking test season.

 

[MrTimms]

Threads merged.

 

[Blue]

Every time people talk about Wallaby 13 and mention anyone but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as the first choice I am astounded. He has very few, if any, shortcomings in the position. All the other blokes have issues.

 

[Viking]

I still think Horne offers more then AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13, his distribution skills and offloading skills are much higher then AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s. His defence is just as good too. And with Mitchell out on the wing then we can have both Horne at 13 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 14. The only problem with Horne is he is always injured but if he is fully fit come RWC time he should get a place. Surely you cant hold back on a player just because he has been injured in the past, If he is fit come RWC and is playing well he deserves a spot.

 

[Blue]

I still think Horne offers more then AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13, his distribution skills and offloading skills are much higher then AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s. His defence is just as good too. And with Mitchell out on the wing then we can have both Horne at 13 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 14. The only problem with Horne is he is always injured but if he is fully fit come RWC time he should get a place. Surely you cant hold back on a player just because he has been injured in the past, If he is fit come RWC and is playing well he deserves a spot.

Hornse is a great player but like you say he canlt stay on the park. That's why he is jus not a reliable option. Pick the guy who has played there and can keep playing there and stick Horne in as backup.

 

[fatprop]

Horne hasn't shown any real attacking ability at test match level, great defense, but apart from one decent run against Fiji, bugger all.

His card can only be marked, has ability but could do better

 

[Scotty]

Horne hasn't shown any real attacking ability at test match level, great defense, but apart from one decent run against Fiji, bugger all.

His card can only be marked, has ability but could do better

I agreed with you, although in saying that he is probably the best defensive option we have, and if we are going to have JOC (James O'Connor) at 12, then I want a great defender at 13 to lead the line forward.

 

[Viking]

Hornse is a great player but like you say he canlt stay on the park. That's why he is jus not a reliable option. Pick the guy who has played there and can keep playing there and stick Horne in as backup.

This is true, But it got me thinking... shouldnt the team be picked by the "best player" gets the position. Not the most reliable player. Even though a player has a history of injuries who's to say he won't stay injury free in the future? There is a possibility that when he returns he could have a few years injury free.

I guess what im saying is I wouldnt hold back on a player for being injury prone. If he is healthy on the day and playing well he should be considered. So the real question is... Is he a better 13 then AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)?