Wallaby Outside Centre

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I won't deny there are a couple of areas in the pack that we need to address, but the backs look fine to me. Horwill back at lock, Slipper starting, TPN and Moore sharing hooker, Palu and McCalman sharing the job at eight and I think we're getting somewhere.

 

[Gnostic]

TBH - the issues for the backs IMO are:-
1) 12 - Barnes is crocked (again) and there has to be serious question marks over his longevity. I certainly have concerns for him along the lines I had for Flatley a few years ago. SO who do we play at 12? The only options I see realisticly are Giteau (if he can be a TEAM member and play a solid 12 game like he used to) or JOC (James O'Connor). I would be happy with either in the abscence of Barnes. Left field idea would be Horne. I don't rate Morty at 12 at test level (and not really at Super level either) it is not his strength.
2) 13 - Unlike others I am not that fussed on Ioane at 13 his best spot is 14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been ordinary there this year but how much of that is due to those inside him? Morty is a chance but hasn't been playing there. I would've loved Inman to have a full season at 13 as I rate him very highly and Horne likewise. Even after the Reds win against the Stormers, I don't rate A. Finger for test level, especialy at 13.
3) 14 - JOC (James O'Connor) is not a wing and as the weekend showed definitely not a fullback. It doesn't matter how many tries the Wallabies score if they concede easy points because players are out of position and get caught out on defence.

 

[HG]

Mate I would have thought we couldn't lose to Scotland a few years ago. The Welsh have a pretty good base to build on and I don't rate them that badly. It would be unlikely but as I said there are ,assive flaws in last year's squad, which I pointed out at the time of selection and got bagged for it, and those weaknesses were shown up big time against England. It would be silly to do the same thing and expect a different result.

If you take into account those that were out with injury then the squad would have been vastly different that that selected.
Last year wasn't so bad in hindsight as it gave others a chance to show their wares and get some internationals under their belt. Look at Kepu vastley imporved, Slipper the same, Saia, and the list goes no.

 

[Joe Blow]

I think JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 could certainly happen. It's hardly a gamble, given our weakness there and the way JOC (James O'Connor) has been playing. There's nothing he can't step around, especially the lumbering tanks playing 12 nowadays. Players like Nonu and Sunni Bill are powerful but hardly nimble.

Absolutely. If there is one position in our backline that has been sub standard it is 12. BB is pretty much permanently injured and Gits has lost his Mojo. JOC (James O'Connor) has been good enough this year to be considered our # 2 5/8 and could be a masterstroke at 12.
I reckon we will see him there during the 3Ns.

 

[Gnostic]

If you take into account those that were out with injury then the squad would have been vastly different that that selected.
Last year wasn't so bad in hindsight as it gave others a chance to show their wares and get some internationals under their belt. Look at Kepu vastley imporved, Slipper the same, Saia, and the list goes no.

Kepu was left at home HG. His improvement this year has nothing at all to do with the Master Coach and friends. Look to the Wallabies ex-scrum coach. In fact as has been discussed ad nauseum Kepu was displaying this scrummaging prowess against Super 14 Props in the final stages of the Shute Shield last year.

In any event nobody was injured from the backline who is in contention now excepting Horne who is out again. On top of that the replacements selected such as Chisholm who has in excess of 50 test caps should have been more than sufficient to see of Scotland.

 

[HG]

TBH - the issues for the backs IMO are:-
1) 12 - Barnes is crocked (again) and there has to be serious question marks over his longevity. I certainly have concerns for him along the lines I had for Flatley a few years ago. SO who do we play at 12? The only options I see realisticly are Giteau (if he can be a TEAM member and play a solid 12 game like he used to) or JOC (James O'Connor). I would be happy with either in the abscence of Barnes. Left field idea would be Horne. I don't rate Morty at 12 at test level (and not really at Super level either) it is not his strength.
2) 13 - Unlike others I am not that fussed on Ioane at 13 his best spot is 14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been ordinary there this year but how much of that is due to those inside him? Morty is a chance but hasn't been playing there. I would've loved Inman to have a full season at 13 as I rate him very highly and Horne likewise. Even after the Reds win against the Stormers, I don't rate A. Finger for test level, especialy at 13.
3) 14 - JOC (James O'Connor) is not a wing and as the weekend showed definitely not a fullback. It doesn't matter how many tries the Wallabies score if they concede easy points because players are out of position and get caught out on defence.

1) agree Barnes may be heading down the track of Flatley. Giteau is not the answer at 12. Agree JOK at 12.
2) Horne is injury prone, when was his last game? Didn't go on EOYT and out injured again, won't get a look in. Ioane at 13 is a good option if the selectors still want Giteau or Barnes at 12 as JOK will play on one wing and the other will be Mitchell, with Beale at 15,
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is out of form! However if you say it is because of those inside him how is it that you front Giteau as an option at 12 is he not responsable?
Morty is not the answer at 13 either.

 

[Gnostic]

My arguments about Giteau have always been that he is playing at 10. He was the best 12 Oz has fielded since Horan. I loved Psycho Grey for the Tahs but he never had the skills Giteau has displayed at 12. Hence I have always called for Giteau to play at 12 again and feel that if he did he would provide those opportunities inside and out again. Indeed look at the line breaks he has made recently most of them were made running from 12.

JOC (James O'Connor) is not a wing and I really hope he plays 12 as if he doesn't there can be no doubt Deans will stick him at 14.

 

[HG]

You are right that Kepu was left at home my mistake, and by the looks of your post you don't have much time for Deans, England reamed us because we didn't get any go forward ball from the fowards, that was where most of our injuried players played apart for Horne and Ioane.

 

[HG]

Agree that Giteau was a great 12 but that was when Larkem was at 10 an vastly different player to Cooper.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Gnostic, it all really hinges on what happens with Berrick. If his melon comes good, he plays 12 and all is right with the world. If he doesn't, then JOC (James O'Connor) plays there and Ioane plays on the wing. All good from my perspective. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) gets first crack at outside centre. He's earned that right I believe.

 

[DPK]

Larkem was at 10 an vastly different player to Cooper.

How?

 

[Gnostic]

How?

Larkham could tackle. But the long passing game is very similar and it could be argued that one on one Cooper is better at beating a man. Larkham was great at finding the hole and using his deceptive pace to get through.

 

[Ruggo]

The backup number 8 is still open. Palu has been decent on his return and will only get better so lock him in for number one. I see a big race comming on for the backup position between McCalman and Higgenbotham. Mowen is in with a shot but these two having been in the circle gives them the advantage.

Lock in 9, 10 and 15 in for Genia, Cooper and Beale. O'Connor will be there but where? The rest is very much up for grabs.

 

[darkhorse]

I think Giteau has been coming into form for the brumbies, but as Gnostic alluded most of his brilliance are shown when he is a second receiver.

I think Giteau's best asset is his footwork so to get the best out of him you really have to play him at 12. Same situation with O'Connor really. Gits and O'Connor have decent skills but these should be the bare minimum for an international player. Just because JOC (James O'Connor) and Gits can pass doesn't mean they are best suited for 10. Every player in the backline should be able to pass like them. JOC (James O'Connor) does look he could be better, and probably already is, than Giteau. However Q's surely remain over his defence. Giteau's defence is topclass even if it isn't at the same standard as barne's tackling, which is superhuman.

I say give JOC (James O'Connor) a chance for the first couple of trinations, but if there is a suggestion that he could be flaky in defence then go with Giteau for the RWC. Whilst JOC (James O'Connor) might cause Sonny bill a couple of problems, I'm more concerned about the problems SBW will cause JOC (James O'Connor) on attack.

 

[Bowside]

The backup number 8 is still open. Palu has been decent on his return and will only get better so lock him in for number one. I see a big race comming on for the backup position between McCalman and Higgenbotham. Mowen is in with a shot but these two having been in the circle gives them the advantage.

Lock in 9, 10 and 15 in for Genia, Cooper and Beale. O'Connor will be there but where? The rest is very much up for grabs.

Im not sure how many backrowers we take, but at this stage we have what Pocock, Palu, Elsom and Mcalman on the bench?

Add to that hodgeson who is returning from injury and Higginbotham who is playing better every week. Chapman is injured, Brown is not up to the standard, Waugh wont get selected and I don't really rate the other tahs back-rowers.

Surely on form, Vaea and Robinson must be chances for the squad. Wouldn't be bad selections either, they would defiantly add a bit of starch at the breakdown.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'd be very tempted to put Robinson in the RWC squad based on his current form. Just the kind of abrasive bloke who could be handy against a guy like Moody coming off the bench.

 

[Groucho]

I think Giteau has been coming into form for the brumbies, but as Gnostic alluded most of his brilliance are shown when he is a second receiver.

I think Giteau's best asset is his footwork so to get the best out of him you really have to play him at 12. Same situation with O'Connor really. Gits and O'Connor have decent skills but these should be the bare minimum for an international player. Just because JOC (James O'Connor) and Gits can pass doesn't mean they are best suited for 10. Every player in the backline should be able to pass like them. JOC (James O'Connor) does look he could be better, and probably already is, than Giteau. However Q's surely remain over his defence. Giteau's defence is topclass even if it isn't at the same standard as barne's tackling, which is superhuman.

I say give JOC (James O'Connor) a chance for the first couple of trinations, but if there is a suggestion that he could be flaky in defence then go with Giteau for the RWC. Whilst JOC (James O'Connor) might cause Sonny bill a couple of problems, I'm more concerned about the problems SBW will cause JOC (James O'Connor) on attack.

darkhorse, I agree with that post but with one caveat. JOC (James O'Connor)'s defence is the opposite of what Gilbert's used to be. He is very good in the line but a little bit hopeless out the back where good runners seem to be able to get around him almost as easily as he gets around them. On the weekend, though, Kurtley and Drew Mitchell would have got round any fullback.

 

[vidiot]

On the weekend, though, Kurtley and Drew Mitchell would have got round any fullback.

A defender like Quade Cooper, who is so prized as a tackler that Link actually moves him to fullback when not in possession, would have been a different story. I can honestly say that I don't recall a single runner getting around him.

 

[Lee Grant]

Quade is decent enough on side-on tackles which a defensive fullback has to make most of the time. But his one on one tackling especially when large players are coming right at him with no interest in avoiding a tackle, and especially whilst he is defending his goal line, is deplorable.

Even without the goal-line situation he is not that great front-on. He has a penchant for trying to strip the ball rather than getting the ball carrier on the deck. Sometimes it works and he gets a mention for it, but it disguises a basic flaw in his defensive make up. I could have been talking about KB (Kurtley Beale) instead of QC (Quade Cooper) in 2007 and 2008 and the 1st half of 2009. But towards the end of 2009 KB (Kurtley Beale), then 20, was showing a bit more starch that was confirmed in 2010.

If it is a lack of ticker there is not much than can be done but I wouldn't write him off just yet. I remember the 2006 Oz Schools tournament when he played poorly except that his defence was fearless. I don't think he is lacking ticker so it's up to the coaches to do something about it.

If I am wrong then he will be found out down the track and he will probably go to league, and defend one in from the wing with a centre minder - like Jamie Soward on the right hand side with the Dragons.

 

[Gnostic]

I think your final paragraph is what will happen Lee.

It is unfortunate, but for that flaw he could be ranked as good as Larkham, Ella and Noddy in years to come.