Wallabies world cup squad selection

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Please no Horwill at blindside. He' not a patch on Elsom in that position.

 

[Ruggo]

Funny the Horwill at 6 debate. The first two games this year the Reds played without a specialist openside which had a detrimental effect on the Reds back row. The other game where he played their was round one last year vs the Tahs where he was partnered with Braid and Higgenbotham. I remember Horwill at 6 working well that night. I think Horwill is too valuable at lock to play at 6 more so than saying he is no good at 6.

 

[Gnostic]

Please no Horwill at blindside. He' not a patch on Elsom in that position.

He's played better than Elsom has this year.

If Elsom doesn't get on the field in Super Rugby and plays very well it will test the statement that Deans has made time and again "there are no 2011 Wallabies at this stage".

 

[Paradox]

He's played better than Elsom has this year.

If Elsom doesn't get on the field in Super Rugby and plays very well it will test the statement that Deans has made time and again "there are no 2011 Wallabies at this stage".

The statement is still true. There are no 2011 Wallabies at this stage.

 

[Gnostic]

The statement is still true. There are no 2011 Wallabies at this stage.

Pedantic dribble.

Most here realise that the squad was pretty much settled excepting injuries and maybe one or a maximum of two bolters at the end of the 3N last year.

Elsom will get selected even if he doesn't lace the boots up in a single Super game. Alexander will be one of the props either in the run on or bench, regardless of form. Giteau will be selected at 10 if/when Cooper is injured or rested. Sharpe will again be played as a TH Lock and people will again bag him for not pushing the scrums, even though we all know he is being played out of position. It is highly likely that Chisholm will again make the squad.

 

[Reddy!]

Say Elsom does make it back for the Test matches, and reinstated as captain - there is every chance he will just break down again and then we will be without a blindside and captain for the world cup. I would honestly prefer somebody who if consistently fit and guaranteed their spot captain. Logic says Sharpe.

 

[Paradox]

Pedantic dribble.

Pot Kettle Black. Refer to your own post re: Deans. We all know you stopped liking Elsom when he left the Tahs. I have observed your posts for some time and you are incredibly parochial and insular. Elsom was mighty on the end of year tour - if you don't believe me check out his workrate stats.

 

[Paradox]

Say Elsom does make it back for the Test matches, and reinstated as captain - there is every chance he will just break down again and then we will be without a blindside and captain for the world cup. I would honestly prefer somebody who if consistently fit and guaranteed their spot captain. Logic says Sharpe.

Genia or Pocock for me.

 

[Gnostic]

Pot Kettle Black. Refer to your own post re: Deans. We all know you stopped liking Elsom when he left the Tahs. I have observed your posts for some time and you are incredibly parochial and insular. Elsom was mighty on the end of year tour - if you don't believe me check out his workrate stats.

:lmao:

Which one of my one or two Deans posts are you referring to? If it is the assertion that Elsom will get selected in the Wallabies and as Captain without playing a game in Oz this year, surely you don't doubt that. It has happened already, when he returned from the NH this is just what happened.

If you are going to make allegations at least get them half right, if you actually go back and read my posting history you will find I am one of the least parochial posters here. One of the most arrogant and offensive I could have accepted, but parochial and insular is just laughable.

I have never ceased "liking" Elsom. Since his return he has never reached the form that he displayed before his NH sojourn or during it. His Captaincy is questionable. In fact Eddie Jones himself questioned if any of the current Brumbies displayed the leadership skills required. The FACT is that he has not played a game this year and is still what 4 weeks at best away from getting a run.

And to top it off you are another who likes to peddle "Work Rate". How about effectiveness. I will admit that Elsom has a much greater effectiveness than Richard Brown, but he is not the form 6 in Oz and definitely not this year when he hasn't laced up the boots!

 

[Slim 293]

He's the incumbent Wallaby 6, and was one of the best Wallaby forwards last year... he was in top form in the key 3N matches that the Wallabies won, and on the EOYT... and many people (particularly posters on this forum) had him rated as one of the best 6s going around...

That shows that he was certainly progressing after coming back from Ireland not 100%...

In fact, going back earlier in the year the stats showed that he was one of the hardest working forwards in the Super 14... was putting in a lot of work in the tight for the Brumbies... making LOTS of tackles... and a lot less seagulling...

I think it's pretty ridiculous that his position comes under such intense questioning (repeatedly by certain posters) when he was in excellent form in his last matches played, and there's no real threats for his position...

I can only imagine Gnostic in 1999 questioning whether or not Stephen Larkham should be selected for the Wallabies due to his long absence...

I don't think players should be automatically selected based on reputation alone when they're poorly out of form...

But there's no reason at this stage to believe that Elsom shouldn't, and won't be the Wallaby 6 on his return...

 

[Gnostic]

He's the incumbent Wallaby 6, and was one of the best Wallaby forwards last year... he was in top form in the key 3N matches that the Wallabies won, and on the EOYT... and many people (particularly posters on this forum) had him rated as one of the best 6s going around...

That shows that he was certainly progressing after coming back from Ireland not 100%...

In fact, going back earlier in the year the stats showed that he was one of the hardest working forwards in the Super 14... was putting in a lot of work in the tight for the Brumbies... making LOTS of tackles... and a lot less seagulling...

I think it's pretty ridiculous that his position comes under such intense questioning (repeatedly by certain posters) when he was in excellent form in his last matches played, and there's no real threats for his position...

I can only imagine Gnostic in 1999 questioning whether or not Stephen Larkham should be selected for the Wallabies due to his long absence...

I don't think players should be automatically selected based on reputation alone when they're poorly out of form...

But there's no reason at this stage to believe that Elsom shouldn't, and won't be the Wallaby 6 on his return...

It is very arguable about your assertions on Elsom's form last year. Not just posters are questioning Elsom's role in the Test side with Horan calling for him to be stripped of the Captaincy.

As for your analogy about Larkham, try again. Who were the other options? Elton Flately - steady, concussed. Manny Edmonds at the Tahs from memory. There were no options to Larkham at 10 and we have struggled until recently whenever he was injured and when he retired. There are however options for Elsom. It was also a totally different situation, Elsom returning from the NH and walking straight into the Wallabies because he "signed" with a Oz Super team made a mockery of the spirit of the Wallaby playing requirements. He should've had to earn his place playing Super Rugby like everyone else. Don't strain your imagination thinking about me Slim.

 

[Slim 293]

Tim Horan's article was laughable, as his agenda was clearly promoting the leadership of two Reds players...

At the time of Elsom's return there were no decent 6s in Australia and he'd just come off being the form player of the Heineken Cup...

His form was a bit dour in those tests straight from his return and in hindsight he shouldn't have been rushed back...

But there's no doubting he was in good form on the EOYT and the second half of the 3N...

He also got better as a captain as the year went on...

As it stands there is no one better to replace him... he was in excellent form before injury... there are no better candidates...

It seems a bit ridiculous to keep harping on about him...

If he returns from injury and he struggles then we should be talking about him... but at this point in time there is no reason to doubt his place in the team... no reason whatsoever...

 

[Gnostic]

Tim Horan's article was laughable, as his agenda was clearly promoting the leadership of two Reds players...

At the time of Elsom's return there were no decent 6s in Australia and he'd just come off being the form player of the Heineken Cup...

His form was a bit dour in those tests straight from his return and in hindsight he shouldn't have been rushed back...

But there's no doubting he was in good form on the EOYT and the second half of the 3N...

He also got better as a captain as the year went on...

As it stands there is no one better to replace him... he was in excellent form before injury... there are no better candidates...

It seems a bit ridiculous to keep harping on about him...

If he returns from injury and he struggles then we should be talking about him... but at this point in time there is no reason to doubt his place in the team... no reason whatsoever...

Horan - yes a laughable joke or an opinion coming as it does from a recent Wallaby selector. Get last week's edition of the Fox Rugby Club and listen to his reasoning for pushing Horwill or Genia and they are sound.

Its ridiculous that you keep asserting that you keep saying that his form was so great as if it were unarguable fact. Yeah no reason at all to doubt his place, none whatsoever except for the fact that he hasn't played a game. But don't let a little thing like actually playing hold you back. That is in fact my point, Deans will again select him even if he doesn't play a game this year in the Super Rugby.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Elsom is still the best 6 in Australia and played bloody well on the EOYT in 2010. And he's not just the best blindside by a little bit, the gap between him and the next best is huge. Whether or not he should be captain is a whole other debate. It will present a difficult position for Deans if he plays no Super rugby at all, but what are the actual chances of that? If he plays a full 80 at any stage he'll be selected. We can't win without him.

I don't think Gits will play 10 either. That boat has sailed I reckon.

 

[Slim 293]

Horan - yes a laughable joke or an opinion coming as it does from a recent Wallaby selector. Get last week's edition of the Fox Rugby Club and listen to his reasoning for pushing Horwill or Genia and they are sound.

Its ridiculous that you keep asserting that you keep saying that his form was so great as if it were unarguable fact. Yeah no reason at all to doubt his place, none whatsoever except for the fact that he hasn't played a game. But don't let a little thing like actually playing hold you back. That is in fact my point, Deans will again select him even if he doesn't play a game this year in the Super Rugby.

I'm simply going by my opinion, and that of the general concensus of the board around that time that he was particularly good in the latter games of the 3NBledisloe (including the games Australia won), and on the EOYT.

Many of whom were touting that he was one of the best 6s going around. I believe he was even shortlisted for the World XV vote.

Anyways, I'm glad you've admitted that he hasn't played this year because you keep creating these bizarre posts saying that his form this year dictates he shouldn't make the team.

And I'm sure you'd even acknowledbge (as you already did about Larkham) that there are players who should be selected who deserve selection on their reputation if they've been injured (and were obviously in good form before injury).

Would you suggest that players like Moore, TPN or even Sharpe wouldn't deserve selection if they were to miss most of the Super season too?

I'm sure you wouldn't...

But really I just want to put it out there that this campaign by you against Elsom's place in the Wallaby XV is not justified as -

a) His form was good in his last matches played
b) No better options
c) He hasn't played this year THEREFORE there is no bad form to rule him out on

 

[vidiot]

Elsom..... We can't win without him.

Whoa up. I fall into the "pick Rocky if he's fit and not in laughable form" camp. But we can win without him, and we may even make better decisions without him as captain.

 

[hench]

I don't think Gits will play 10 either. That boat has sailed I reckon.

He's the perfect bench player to have IMO.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Whoa up. I fall into the "pick Rocky if he's fit and not in laughable form" camp. But we can win without him, and we may even make better decisions without him as captain.

I stand by what I said. Who is within a hundred miles of him at blindside? Our pack needs mongrel and go forward, Rocky's got both. McCalman maybe fulfils both at 6, but that leaves open the position of eight, where we still don't have a walk-up starter (as much as I like Cliffy, he's never really vanquished all the other contenders).

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

He's the perfect bench player to have IMO.

Absolutely no problem with that, but I don't think he is in our best XV any more, at 10 or 12.

 

[sevenpointdropgoal]

I second Gnostic's call for Mowen to get a look in. He's capable of covering 6/8 - handy jumper, and, particularly with the extra weight, a good ball runner.