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Wallabies Watch

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fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I don't necessarily agree with you about Palmer. But does that sentiment also apply to others who may/will not be available next year, eg Folau, Palu, Barnes, etc?

two different cases,

Folau - absolutely, unless he is signing on for next year I wouldn't pick him, whatever promise he shows.

Palu & Barnes? they have runs on the board in test matches - Palu has been near our best pig in a November test and Barnes at 15 was bloody good last year. If they are picked they are of a known test standard.

It would be a different scenario if the June tests were the usual pop gun test matches we use for development before playing the ABs & Boks
 

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
The Courier Mail is reporting the ARU have asked barnes to say in Australia until the end of the wallaby season and have implied he will start at 10 ahead of Cooper, Lealifano, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor).

I think the worst part about losing to the lions will be that we're going to do it playing narrow, one out, shit rugby.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
The Courier Mail is reporting the ARU have asked barnes to say in Australia until the end of the wallaby season and have implied he will start at 10 ahead of Cooper, Lealifano, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor).
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Oh no, I meant

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I hate the ARU sometimes.
 
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Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The Courier Mail is reporting the ARU have asked barnes to say in Australia until the end of the wallaby season and have implied he will start at 10 ahead of Cooper, Lealifano, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor).

The article states nothing of the sort. It said that it appears Quade Cooper is behind Barnes, O'Connor and Beale for the 10 jersey.

I fully expect Barnes to be the first choice 15 still and Beale to be the first choice 10.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Funny, Kimlin is probably more experienced than all the players you've listed. He isn't a spring chicken and has had a bad run with injuries. His first test cap was 2009. Kimlin is in great form as well. I think you'll find the Brumbies running quite a bit of biff from number 8 :p

With 2 test caps and plenty of seasons spent injured he's really not that experienced. I think we'll see him being rotated between bench and starting plenty this year at the Brumbies.
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
There is a role in the squad/22 that is definitely up for grabs - the lock/backrower utility player. Deans tried to play Dennis and Timani in that role, but both experiments failed miserably. Our scrum went to shit with Dennis at lock and Timani is no 6. This is where McMeniman and Kimlin both come on the radar. Although I'd argue that McMeniman could be chosen anyway as a stand-alone lock.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
MMM is a chance, I see Kimlin as no better than Dennis.

MMM adds that something extra, the other two are technicians, but I don'r see MMM as a test lock

I still have nightmares of Aus being mullared with the MMM locking Aus in the UK
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
Hard to go past Luke Jones workrate if you are looking for a versatile lock/6. Not the showpony type, but has a very large motor, game in game out, and for me thats a crucial asset for the role. Can't speak to his scrummaging power but the Rebels scrum has been a lot better this year, and their lineouts very good. I can see him as a dark horse selection for the squad if he keeps his game at this level over the next two months.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
Hard to go past Luke Jones workrate if you are looking for a versatile lock/6. Not the showpony type, but has a very large motor, game in game out, and for me thats a crucial asset for the role. Can't speak to his scrummaging power but the Rebels scrum has been a lot better this year, and their lineouts very good. I can see him as a dark horse selection for the squad if he keeps his game at this level over the next two months.
His stats are off the chart as a lock. Really just silly. The worry with him is his hands. I reckon he's conceded about ten turnovers so far this year. If he could fix that he'd be a shoe-in for the squad.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Stats say throw Smith to Lions - or vice versa

Date
March 21, 2013
Paul Cully
Your eyes have not been deceiving you when you have watched the Brumbies go about their business this season and you sense them to be on another level to the Waratahs and the other Australian sides.
Stat sheets land on the desks of the Australian Super coaches and, crucially, Robbie Deans after each round, breaking down the individual performance of every player in Australia in some detail.
The Herald has seen last weekend's analysis. Jake White's men are simply doing that little bit more, and with greater quality. And no one is doing it better than George Smith.
The categories are varied, but say much about workload, physicality and accuracy. The number of ruck arrivals are added up, along with what the player actually did when he got there. Tackles are counted in terms of effectiveness. Ball carries are noted and success at the gain-line recorded. There are no hiding places for any player in Australia – No.10s, for example – and the stats do not take reputation into consideration.
When it comes to the Wallabies No.7 jersey things become very interesting, and those in their 30s will take pleasure.
Industrious Waratah Michael Hooper arrived at 46 ruck situations against the Cheetahs and won all of his gain-line collisions, although he made only eight tackles at an accuracy rate of 67 per cent, missing four. By comparison, Reds youngster Liam Gill made 16 tackles and missed none, but did not carry the ball as well.
Yet it is the old man, Smith – a sprightly 32 – who has reminded the kids he is still a dominant figure. He arrived at 43 rucks, contesting the ball at a significant percentage of them, won his gain-line battles and made a staggering 23 tackles – almost twice that of Hooper – at a success rate of 91 per cent. For good measure, he made 17 passes, including five offloads. In fact, he made more offloads than Hooper or Gill made passes.
Rewind a week to the Brumbies-Waratahs game and his figures are no less flattering. In 66 minutes Smith attended more rucks than Hooper did in 80. And when he got there, he spent 36 per cent of his time contesting the ball and making a complete pest of himself compared with Hooper's 10 per cent. His appetite for, and tolerance of, physical punishment seems undiminished. This is British and Irish Lions form, should he be eligible. He is certainly on the Wallabies' radar.
Among his teammates Deans has also recently dropped the name of Ben Mowen. Last weekend against the Sharks, the big No.6 arrived at 37 rucks, had 100 per cent effectiveness at or over the gain-line and missed one from 13 tackles. Waratahs captain Dave Dennis had one less ruck arrival, missed one tackle of nine and had a gain-line stat of just 60 per cent. Mowen is adding that extra physical punch at present, as had been requested from on high.
The tale is repeated throughout the packs. Wallabies loose-head Benn Robinson arrived at 11 rucks in his 40 minutes against the Cheetahs, and two from three ball carries were deemed ineffective. Contrastingly, young Brumbies bull Scott Sio had 27 ruck arrivals in 60 minutes, and his involvement at those breakdowns was also deemed more effective than Robinson's. He also carried the ball eight times, all of which were successful.
In the second row, Wallabies giant Sitaleki Timani had nine carries of the ball, although two were rated ineffective and his gain-line success was a surprisingly low 38 per cent. The man wearing the Brumbies' No.4 jersey, Peter Kimlin, surpassed that, charging forward 10 times and making more metres with a gain-line success of 100 per cent.
In the other comparison between Wallaby and Test aspirant, Sam Carter made it to more breakdowns and made more tackles than Kane Douglas, although his ball carries were slightly less effective.
Does this information mean the Wallabies will pick a swath of uncapped players and throw them to the Lions? Of course not. Statistics are part of the picture, not the whole. But the remarkable Smith, with 110 Test caps to his name, is already in a different category. And the numbers just confirm it.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
You seem to think Palu is the devil incarnate. I have no idea why.

In the last few years we seem to have got our best results using a combination of Palu and Samo.

Richard Brown, Scott Higginbotham and Ben McCalman haven't provided anywhere near the level of physicality that those two guys have provided from number 8. McCalman would be closest of the three.

I couldn't agree more about Brown (especially) Higgers and McCalman. They do not offer anywhere near Palu or Samo at their best. My point is that I believe Palu has not played anywhere near his best for a couple of years, and on present form does not warrant Wallabies' selection. Rather look to the future with Fotu and Mowen than the past.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Rather look to the future with Fotu and Mowen than the past.

Fotu Auelua is a year and a half younger than Palu. What future are you looking to exactly? Palu well and truly has the runs on the board. Auelua has a few good Super Rugby games under his belt. Most of which are cameos off the bench.

I firmly agree that currently, Mowen is the leading candidate to play 6 for the Wallabies. I don't think he's the wrecking ball 8 we'd be looking for though.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I couldn't agree more about Brown (especially) Higgers and McCalman. They do not offer anywhere near Palu or Samo at their best. My point is that I believe Palu has not played anywhere near his best for a couple of years, and on present form does not warrant Wallabies' selection. Rather look to the future with Fotu and Mowen than the past.

What was wrong with Palu against England at Twickenham? I thought after MoM Hooper he was our best forward. He was our best forward against Wales in Cardiff as well. That's as recent as it gets. He didn't have many big trademark runs but his dominant tackling was awesome, he routinely put in hits that turned over the ball.
 
P

Paradox

Guest
MMM is a chance, I see Kimlin as no better than Dennis.

On this years form you really should. Dennis is relatively ineffective at carrying and Kimlin plays a tighter, tougher and more physical game.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
This year but last year he was playing as good and better than Kimlin is now. No he doesn't play tighter at all about the same both more so than Higgers however.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
On this years form you really should. Dennis is relatively ineffective at carrying and Kimlin plays a tighter, tougher and more physical game.

There have been four games this year. That's why so many people are saying that it is absolute crazy talk to be discarding Wallabies from last year and calling for Scott Sio and Fotu Auelua to be in the starting XV against the Lions.
 

Chronicle

Chris McKivat (8)
Looking for a line on this years Wallabies it is hard to go past the recent signings that have been announced.
Phipps re signed by ARU for further 2 years, Kepu re signed for further 2 years by ARU, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) re signed for further 2 years.
Palmer to France unwanted by ARU, Kimlin to France unwanted by ARU, White re signed by Brumbies no mention of ARU top up.
There is a common theme and it would appear clear as to who someone in the ARU setup thinks is the front runners for Lions selection. Settles form versus experience debate.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
On this years form you really should. Dennis is relatively ineffective at carrying and Kimlin plays a tighter, tougher and more physical game.

It is early and the Tahs are changing structure

''Last year it was one pass off the ruck, hitting a brick wall, whereas this year we're trying to put guys in space and it means the forwards are touching the ball a bit more but also being able to shift the ball and pass, not just carry themselves,'' he said.
''You saw last week the benefit of getting guys like Paddy [Ryan] and our bigger guys to carry the ball in the middle of the field.
''Once we get better at it I genuinely feel it will open up space for myself and some of the other back-rowers on the field, but at the moment because we're not executing well enough we're not giving ourselves those chances.''
 

Allsports

Stan Wickham (3)
reported today that Burgess is signing with the ARU so along with Phipps & Genia already signed seems theres no room for White. The ARU at there best again. White has been in awesome form last year & this but not seen by the ARU worth investing in. Resign Phipps & Burgess till 2015 ? WTF
 
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