Wallabies Watch

[Scoey]

In that sense yes but you play the Lions every 12 years, you get an opportunity for the Bled every year.

I agree that the Lions series is more important than the Bled, just playing the devils advocate with a little tongue in cheek. It's not until you actually realise though that the last time we won the Bled was in '02 that we really need to start putting some priority into winning that one too!
They are chalk and cheese though in a way. The Lions series is about something different to the Bled. Yes, we desperately want to win both, but there is something more about the Lions because it is such a rare treat.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the biggest likelihood is that any debutantes against the Lions will play off the bench. This of course is barring major injury problems between now and then.

The only player I would pick as a serious contender for a starting debut at this stage is Ben Mowen because he is a similar player to Higgers and Dennis and is playing much better.

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Braveheart, I was about to write exactly that... In my opinion Mowen is the only one that would be in line for a starting debut.

I think Lealiifano and potentially Mogg will get their chance this year (pending on continuing form)... via the bench.

Why do I think Mowen could walk into the starting line up? Well, he could play 6 and 7. He has maturity and leadership qualities, and in my opinion plays a physical game to the standard of an international footballer.

With Barnes out for the next 6 weeks, it may be more likely that Lealiifano and Mogg will get that chance....

 

[hench]

last time we won the Bled was in '02

That's bloody embarrassing in a two horse race.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Re Palu, firstly I think its a bit rich to suggest that he is "out of form" when he appeared to be playing pretty well before joining the injured list.

Secondly, he has shown time and again (at least in my eyes) that he belongs at test level. Not only that, but he has proven that he can come into the side with little to no warm up games (ala the Wales series last year - where he was very effective), and play the role we need him to play.

For me, without question, if he is fit he's in the starting 15 no debate. In my view the wallabies have always been best served having a big physical wrecking ball at no.8 to off-set the fact that we play a less physical style. It also helps having an extra 20kg anchoring the scrum. It's a relatively easy role for a guy of palu's size. push at scrum time, a few hit ups here and there, hurt people in defense, get substituted after 50 minutes. It's no surprise that he looks comfortable at test level. His role is pretty straight forward.

Who else can play that role?! No one!

Fotu is probably the first guy in a long time to emerge that looks like he could play that same role, which is exciting. if he continues to make an impact this year he might be a viable option at no.8.

Fotu is ready now and plays the game exactly as you describe as needed in a No8. Cliff Palu has not been effective for a couple of years. He invariably gets caught behind the gain line these days, and I have to agree with Bob Dwyer's observation some time ago that He (Palu) is lazy. He just doesn't get involved enough. Fotu or Mowen any day imo.

 

[RoffsChoice]

That's bloody embarrassing in a two horse race.

Helps when this year most of the race is on their track.

 

[Braveheart81]

Fotu is ready now and plays the game exactly as you describe as needed in a No8. Cliff Palu has not been effective for a couple of years. He invariably gets caught behind the gain line these days, and I have to agree with Bob Dwyer's observation some time ago that He (Palu) is lazy. He just doesn't get involved enough. Fotu or Mowen any day imo.

Palu was one of our best players in the Wales series last year.

To say he has not been effective for a couple of years is incorrect in my opinion.

Every time we have had to play someone else at 8 outside of Palu and Samo in the last few years our forwards have struggled to match the opposition pack for physicality.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Every time we have had to play someone else at 8 outside of Palu and Samo in the last few years our forwards have struggled to match the opposition pack for physicality.

I agree that no other No8 has been up to scratch either. From memory, that only includes Dennis and Higgers. Both tried and failed (or not succeeded). IMO Samo was more effective than Palu whenever he played. But my point is that either Mowen of Fotu are now better than both. If a Wallabies' team was being selected now, one should play 8 with the other at least on the bench.

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree that no other No8 has been up to scratch either. From memory, that only includes Dennis and Higgers. Both tried and failed (or not succeeded). IMO Samo was more effective than Palu whenever he played. But my point is that either Mowen of Fotu are now better than both. If a Wallabies' team was being selected now, one should play 8 with the other at least on the bench.

Mowen is certainly exhibiting a lot of physicality in Super Rugby this year, but I don't think it is any more than Higgers or Dennis did last year. They both struggled to replicate that at 8 for the Wallabies.

Personally I think Mowen is playing for the 6 jersey (and currently leading that race).

If I was picking a team tomorrow based on form and experience (but also assuming the short term injured players were fit) I would go with a pack of:

Robbo
Moore
Alexander
Horwill/Timani/Pyle
Douglas
Mowen
Hooper
Palu

TPN
Palmer
Ryan/Slipper
Gill
Samo
Timani/Pyle

 

[barbarian]

Fotu is ready now and plays the game exactly as you describe as needed in a No8. Cliff Palu has not been effective for a couple of years. He invariably gets caught behind the gain line these days, and I have to agree with Bob Dwyer's observation some time ago that He (Palu) is lazy. He just doesn't get involved enough. Fotu or Mowen any day imo.

This is just wrong. Palu was one of our best players against Wales mid-year last season, leading the tackle count and the run count in each game. This directly contradicts both your assertions that he hasn't been effective, and that he is lazy.

And again for the Tahs this year his work rate has been very good.

And with only one run-on start this year I struggle to see how you can say Fotu is 'ready'.
.

 

[Dumbledore]

And with only one run-on start this year I struggle to see how you can say Fotu is 'ready'.

Australian rugby fan in being blindly parochial shocker. He's looked the goods coming off the bench, and now he's delivered in his first (?) run on start. If he can keep that sort of form up it would be mad not to have a serious look at him. He looks to have everything we've wanted in an 8 since, well, Kefu.

 

[barbarian]

Don't get me wrong, I love Fotu. But I don't think he is ready after one run-on start. Give him a few more weeks to show he can reproduce that sort of form and I will be all over him, for a bench spot anyway.

 

[Dumbledore]

Mate, I'm with you. If he keeps playing like that then 6. Mowen, 8. Auelua is going to start looking all kinds of tasty. One game as part of a dominant forward pack isn't really enough to demand as starting spot though.

Palu is in the same bracket as Horwill for me. Will be great if we can have him, but he's so broken, so often, that it's almost better to assume he won't be around and to start planning for the possibility. Who are the other options outside of Auelua and Palu? Higgers, McCalman? It's a pretty empty cupboard.

 

[en_force_er]

Don't get me wrong, I love Fotu. But I don't think he is ready after one run-on start. Give him a few more weeks to show he can reproduce that sort of form and I will be all over him, for a bench spot anyway.

If Fotu can put together 3 or 4 good starting games in the row then he can come into Wallaby consideration.

They don't have to be as good as this week's, but he has to carry effectively and show he's up to game pace (which he has so far).

 

[Braveheart81]

Who are the other options outside of Auelua and Palu? Higgers, McCalman? It's a pretty empty cupboard.

All the other options in the cupboard are either light, low fat or salt reduced.

Either way, you're only going to have them if your doctor tells you there are no other options.

 

[lex]

Don't get me wrong, I love Fotu. But I don't think he is ready after one run-on start. Give him a few more weeks to show he can reproduce that sort of form and I will be all over him, for a bench spot anyway.

I was hoping to see Fotu debut at 13! He played in the centres with SBW at Toulon. His breaks and passes to set up tries for Speight against the Waratahs and Tomane against the Sharks were as good as you'll see from a regular 13, and there is no standout 13 anyway.

(Of course I'm not serious, but a Fotu v Tuilagi clash would be worth the price of admission!)

 

[RoffsChoice]

When we had McCalman at 8 we didn't struggle too much, but he hasn't been doing too well this year. If he regains his form it wouldn't be too bad.

 

[en_force_er]

I was hoping to see Fotu debut at 13! He played in the centres with SBW at Toulon. His breaks and passes to set up tries for Speight against the Waratahs and Tomane against the Sharks were as good as you'll see from a regular 13, and there is no standout 13 anyway.

(Of course I'm not serious, but a Fotu v Tuilagi clash would be worth the price of admission!)

That'd be interesting. In France SBW played a bit of 6 and occasionally Bastaereud plays a bit of 8.

I can't say why but I'd guess in France they are just more focused on the players rather than the positions (as exhibited by Fofana playing plenty of wing despite dominating centre and their stream of blokes who play both 10 and 9).

When we had McCalman at 8 we didn't struggle too much, but he hasn't been doing too well this year. If he regains his form it wouldn't be too bad.

Yeah but we were playing some nice rugby when McCalman was an 8 in every other facet.

I suppose it goes to show that you don't need every facet of your game to fall into place to play good rugby, just most of them.

 

[Froggy]

I would want to see a bit more of Fotu then one outstanding game and a few good cameos in the last 20 minutes to be convinced, however am happy to be convinced if he can keep it up. For mine Mowen should be a shoo-in for 8, with 6 a contest between Kimlin and Higgers, with experience probably putting Higgers in front at this point.

Most will disagree with me when I say I would not start Alexander at prop. The first thing we should look at in a prop is, can he scrummage at test level. If the answer is no, he isn't in the frame (or perhaps on the bench to come on when everyone else knocks up, which is what I would do with Alexander). Given that criteria, we are restricted to three props, Robbo, Kepu and possibly Palmer (untested at the top level but looks the goods at super level). Given Kepu is now out of the Tahs because he just isn't putting in for 80, I think the run-on props should be Robbo at loose head and Palmer at tight. An interesting facet of these two is that they are both quite short legged, giving them good low hip height which could make them a pretty difficult front row for some of the sides with taller props.

 

[en_force_er]

Kimlin at 6 Froggy? The bloke's been okay but he's playing in a great side. Sure, he's filling a role but if we need a line-out jumping 6 with a great work-rate at test level we could play Mowen (my pick)/Quirk on form and Higgers/Dennis/McCalman on experience. Kimlin doesn't get close to ticking the form or experience box for mine.

Now, given you've listed Mowen as your 8 option he probably won't factor into your thoughts at 6 but he's a 6 in the Deans system. The Brumbies are not running the biff at 8, lineout/workrate at 6 that Deans runs.

Deans has showed a willingness to select outside of the box to find a big bustling No8 (Samo was well and truly left of field we he was first picked) so I wouldn't be surprised to see Fotu factor in if Palu is broken but Deans would probably just run Higgers there.